Winter Storm Euclid? - TWC to name Winter Storms

[MGC]

That list looks kinda short....how many winter storms happen in any given winter across America?. Are they (TWC) going to name every snowflake producing system?....MGC

[WeatherGuesser]

A day after The Weather Channel (TWC) announced plans to name winter storms, a number of broadcast meteorologists are expressing significant concerns about the initiatve.

Most don’t have a conceptual problem with the act of naming storms, but TWC’s failure to coordinate with the rest of the meteorological community on the initiative is being viewed by many as self-serving and not in the interest of coordinated weather communication.

Andrew Frieden, a broadcast meteorologist in Richmond, put it bluntly: “Weather Channel to name Winter Storms! First Thought: “Who died and made them King?!”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/cap ... _blog.html

[brunota2003]

I think there is value in identifying a potential winter storm in the days leading up to the event. However, there is a big difference between the naming of TCs and the naming of a potential (key word - potential) winter storm. TCs are named for what they currently are, not for what they could be. For example, a disturbance over Africa isn't named "Hurricane Barry" until it actually becomes a hurricane.

Using TWC's plan, a possible storm 3 days from now could be named "Blizzard Caesar". Problem is, it may or may not materialize. I'd prefer to identify the possible storm as "Potential Ohio Valley Snowstorm This Weekend". Perhaps once it's actually happening it could be identified with a name for quick reference. Don't like TWC's list, though.

I agree with something similar to what Buffalo is doing...naming the storms (in their case, lake effect events) AFTER the fact for easier archiving purposes. Then they also rank it off of a scale of 1 to 5 based on how much snow and what kinds of an impact it had on the regions it impacted.

[Laplacian]

I am disturbed that there are no objective criteria for deciding which storms get named and which storms do not. Moreover, what criteria will be used to assign storm "strength?"

As you probably don't know, I'm a winter-storm zealot (I chased lake-effect storms when I was a graduate student at McGill University in Montreal...I chased mostly downwind of Lakes Ontario and Erie). The Buffalo NWS names lake-effect storms for archiving purposes (after the fact), and I don't have any problems with their strictly regional naming convention. In contrast, I think TWC is heading into rough waters with this new marketing strategy. In my experience, some winter storms have relatively weak low-pressure centers, but they can still produce immense snowfalls. Other winter storms have strong winds but little snow. Who picks? Based on what?

I think it's pathetically transparent marketing ploy. In my opinion, TWC has sunk to a new low (no pun intended).

[somethingfunny]

So this has to be named Athena for sure, right? TWC can't be caught sleeping on their first named storm, it's impacting the United States within 8 hours!!!!

THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN GRAND FORKS HAS ISSUED A WINTER
STORM WARNING FOR HEAVY SNOW AND BLOWING SNOW...WHICH IS IN
EFFECT FROM 1 AM THURSDAY TO 1 AM CDT FRIDAY. THE WINTER STORM
WATCH IS NO LONGER IN EFFECT.

* TIMING...RAIN IS EXPECTED TO CHANGE TO SNOW LATE TONIGHT AND
CONTINUE THROUGH THURSDAY. THE SNOW MAY BE HEAVY AT TIMES.

* WINDS...NORTH WINDS WILL INCREASE ON THURSDAY AND BECOME 20 TO
30 MPH WITH HIGHER GUSTS.

* VISIBILITIES...MAY BE NEAR ZERO ON THURSDAY WITHIN FALLING AND
BLOWING SNOW.

* SNOW ACCUMULATIONS...6 TO 10 INCHES ARE POSSIBLE.

* WIND CHILL VALUES...IN THE MID TO UPPER TEENS.

* OTHER IMPACTS...HEAVY SNOW ON TREE BRANCHES AND POWER LINES MAY
CAUSE THEM TO BREAK.

[WeatherGuesser]

By NWS definition:

Blizzard
(abbrev. BLZD)- A blizzard means that the following conditions are expected to prevail for a period of 3 hours or longer:

*Sustained wind or frequent gusts to 35 miles an hour or greater; and
*Considerable falling and/or blowing snow (i.e., reducing visibility frequently to less than ¼ mile)

http://w1.weather.gov/glossary/index.php?letter=b


But of course, everyone here knows that.

Winter Storms are much less specific:

Winter Storm Warning
This product is issued by the National Weather Service when a winter storm is producing or is forecast to produce heavy snow or significant ice accumulations. The criteria for this warning can vary from place to place.

So, I have no idea what TWC will use. Who knows, they may back down with all the flak being tossed at them by other Mets.

[Laplacian]

I am disturbed that there are no objective criteria for deciding which storms get named and which storms do not. Moreover, what criteria will be used to assign storm "strength?"

As you probably don't know, I'm a winter-storm zealot (I chased lake-effect storms when I was a graduate student at McGill University in Montreal...I chased mostly downwind of Lakes Ontario and Erie). The Buffalo NWS names lake-effect storms for archiving purposes (after the fact), and I don't have any problems with their strictly regional naming convention. In contrast, I think TWC is heading into rough waters with this new marketing strategy. In my experience, some winter storms have relatively weak low-pressure centers, but they can still produce immense snowfalls. Other winter storms have strong winds but little snow. Who picks? Based on what?

I think it's pathetically transparent marketing ploy. In my opinion, TWC has sunk to a new low (no pun intended).

P.S. In terms of public consumption, I think we all agree that tropical cyclone names are much more helpful than arcane lat/long references. But a winter storm approaching the southern Great Lakes opposed to Winter Storm Aphrodite? The latter is clearly less informative, and I think the former is much more descriptive and meteorological.

In short, there's no geographical confusion when winter storms impact the United States. So I just don't get it.

Comments? Or do most of you think TWC can do no wrong (In the interest of full disclosure...I no longer watch TWC, except when Dr. Forbes is on)?

[WeatherGuesser]

Comments? Or do most of you think TWC can do no wrong (In the interest of full disclosure...I no longer watch TWC, except when Dr. Forbes is on)?

I wish S2K would take the muzzle off, even if only for this thread, so I could answer that question effectively.

[Extratropical94]

Naming cyclones and anticyclones is common practice over here in Germany, most likely because we don't have any tropical systems to name.
The meteorological agency at Berlin University names every high and low pressure system that significantly affects the weather in Germany. Names can be suggested and "bought" by everyone for 200 euros; money that helps the agency maintain this service. Each year, there are roughly 50-60 anticyclones and 120-140 cyclones that are named.
The naming lists include all 26 letters of the alphabet, one year male names are used for lows and female for highs, the next year it's the other way round.
Those names are used to identify weather patterns and setups that are responsible for e.g. strong winter storms or long periods of nice, sunny weather and are commonly used in public media like TV forecasting, newspapers, etc.
Most people are happy with this method, but I guess the biggest difference between us and the US is that we cannot identify LPAs by their location as they sometimes cover many countries at once.

[vbhoutex]

Comments? Or do most of you think TWC can do no wrong (In the interest of full disclosure...I no longer watch TWC, except when Dr. Forbes is on)?

I wish S2K would take the muzzle off, even if only for this thread, so I could answer that question effectively.

First of all the "muzzle" will not come off for this discussion. It matters not whether one likes TWC or not. The discussion is simply about what we think about them naming Winter storms.
I agree that there are way too many variables left undefined for this to really be effective or useful. I also agree with what Laplacian said about the description being much more useful like it currently is done. Like some others have said, I have to think that this more of an attention getting or marketing tool than something that can really be brought to fruition and be useful unless there are specific parameters set, which I think should only be done by the NWS.

[RL3AO]

Waste a name for a North Dakota/Minnesota storm? Good one. Only name storms that impact Chicago or eastward.

[Laplacian]

Naming cyclones and anticyclones is common practice over here in Germany, most likely because we don't have any tropical systems to name.
The meteorological agency at Berlin University names every high and low pressure system that significantly affects the weather in Germany. Names can be suggested and "bought" by everyone for 200 euros; money that helps the agency maintain this service. Each year, there are roughly 50-60 anticyclones and 120-140 cyclones that are named.
The naming lists include all 26 letters of the alphabet, one year male names are used for lows and female for highs, the next year it's the other way round.
Those names are used to identify weather patterns and setups that are responsible for e.g. strong winter storms or long periods of nice, sunny weather and are commonly used in public media like TV forecasting, newspapers, etc.
Most people are happy with this method, but I guess the biggest difference between us and the US is that we cannot identify LPAs by their location as they sometimes cover many countries at once.

Very interesting. I did not know that Europeans also named anticyclones. And I understand your point about systems affecting several countries at the same time. Many thanks for your response.

[HURRICANELONNY]

TWC is not NWS. TWC is strictly for entertainment. They've been going more into reality TV which is a good thing. They get there forecast from the NWS. Naming storms is just a bunch of hype for ratings. Leave the names for the tropics.

[ozonepete]

Comments? Or do most of you think TWC can do no wrong (In the interest of full disclosure...I no longer watch TWC, except when Dr. Forbes is on)?

I wish S2K would take the muzzle off, even if only for this thread, so I could answer that question effectively.

First of all the "muzzle" will not come off for this discussion. It matters not whether one likes TWC or not. The discussion is simply about what we think about them naming Winter storms.
I agree that there are way too many variables left undefined for this to really be effective or useful. I also agree with what Laplacian said about the description being much more useful like it currently is done. Like some others have said, I have to think that this more of an attention getting or marketing tool than something that can really be brought to fruition and be useful unless there are specific parameters set, which I think should only be done by the NWS.

I think you and Laplacian said it fine, VB. It would be more disappointing if it weren't for the fact that they don't show much current analysis anymore so I don't watch them much at all. I still tune in when there's significant severe weather in hopes of catching Dr. Forbes, and to be fair they usually have him on when I think they will, but I don't picture myself running to TWC when there's a winter storm developing nor do I see the importance of naming them. On that count I agree that it's a marketing ploy; I just sincerely don't believe they are doing it to relieve confusion. Enough people on here have expressed why that is just not very believable.

[HurricaneAndrew92]

Winter Storms are being named per TWC
“The fact is, a storm with a name is easier to follow, which will mean fewer surprises and more preparation.”
Bryan Norcross of The Weather Channel

Opinions and Ideas?

List(Based on Gods and Goddesses and Mythology. Finally, hurricanes and tropical storms aren't the only ones!)

Athena: The Greek goddess of wisdom, courage, inspirations, justice, mathematics and all things wonderful.

Brutus: Roman Senator and best known assassin of Julius Caesar.

Caesar: Title used by Roman and Byzantine emperors.

Draco: The first legislator of Athens in Ancient Greece.

Euclid: A mathematician in Ancient Greece, the father of geometry.

Freyr: A Norse god associated with fair weather, among other things.

Gandolf: A character in a 1896 fantasy novel in a pseudo-medieval countryside.

Helen: In Greek mythology, Helen of Troy was the daughter of Zeus.

Iago: Enemy of Othello in Shakespeare’s play, Othello.

Jove: The English name for Jupiter, the Roman god of light and sky.

Khan: Mongolian conqueror and emperor of the Mongol empire.

Luna: The divine embodiment of the moon in Roman mythology.

Magnus: The Father of Europe, Charlemagne the Great, in Latin: Carolus Magnus.

Nemo: A Greek boy’s name meaning "from the valley," means "nobody" in Latin.

Orko: The thunder god in Basque mythology.

Plato: Greek philosopher and mathematician, who was named by his wrestling coach.

Q: The Broadway Express subway line in New York City.

Rocky: A single mountain in the Rockies.

Saturn: Roman god of time, also the namesake of the planet Saturn in our solar system.

Triton: In Greek mythology, the messenger of the deep sea, son of Poseidon.

Ukko: In Finnish mythology, the god of the sky and weather.

Virgil: One of ancient Rome’s greatest poets.

Walda: Name from Old German meaning “ruler.”

Xerxes: The fourth king of the Persian Achaemenid Empire, Xerxes the Great.

Yogi: People who do yoga.

Zeus: In Greek mythology, the supreme ruler of Mount Olympus and the gods who lived there.

[cycloneye]

There was already a thread about the same topic of naming winter storms so I merged your post with this thread.

[HurricaneAndrew92]

:uarrow: There was already a thread about the same topic of naming winter storms so I merged your post with this thread.

Thanks. And I kind of like it. I think they should name them based on blizzards, but I don't know....

[HurricaneAndrew92]

IMO they should only name nor'easters. At least ones like this.

[Laplacian]

Winter Storms are being named per TWC
“The fact is, a storm with a name is easier to follow, which will mean fewer surprises and more preparation.”
Bryan Norcross of The Weather Channel

Opinions and Ideas?

I have watched Mr. Norcross only once. During his presentation, he tried to explain the gusty winds associated with a landfalling tropical cyclone as downdrafts in eyewall thunderstorms "pulling winds down from aloft." Honestly, if a student of mine wrote this on an exam, I'd mark it wrong. Convective eddies mix momentum downward from stronger winds aloft.

In my opinion, his rationale (quoted above) for naming winter storms is pretty much on par with his explanation of convective mixing. I simply don't accept it, and, if you really think about his remark, it speaks volumes about the shaky ground TWC finds itself. How does the name a winter storm make it easier to follow? How would there be fewer surprises and more preparation? I don't get it.

[greenkat]

They need a category list for these winter storms. That'll get me off the fence. And a few decent winter storm tracking sites to get me completely on TWC's side.