Texas Winter 2017-2018

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Brent
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Re: Texas Winter 2017-2018

#2021 Postby Brent » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:05 am

Cpv17 wrote:Just about all guidance is pointing towards a wetter solution right now so I think I’m gonna stick to that till guidance backs off it. One operational run of a model shouldn’t change anything. Even if it’s the Euro.


It hasn't been consistent anyway... last night's run was dry too then it went to the other extreme at 12z and now back to dry

nice, snow east of us Christmas Eve :roll:
Last edited by Brent on Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:07 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Texas Winter 2017-2018

#2022 Postby cheezyWXguy » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:06 am

I'm not sure why, but every component of this setup is much weaker on the 00z run than the 12z. The Alaska high, the SE US high, and the trough, which seems to want to push SE instead of dropping south as in previous runs. Does anyone have some insight into why this run is so different, or whether or not this is plausible?
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Re: Texas Winter 2017-2018

#2023 Postby Cpv17 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:09 am

Brent wrote:
Cpv17 wrote:Just about all guidance is pointing towards a wetter solution right now so I think I’m gonna stick to that till guidance backs off it. One operational run of a model shouldn’t change anything. Even if it’s the Euro.


It hasn't been consistent anyway... last night's run was dry too then it went to the other extreme at 12z and now back to dry

nice, snow east of us Christmas Eve

Yeah we should just stick to the ensemble mean. Plus the CPC has an increased chance of precipitation for us as well.
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Re: Texas Winter 2017-2018

#2024 Postby JayDT » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:42 am

Well hopefully the Ensemble run keeps the storm and cold :hmm:
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Re: Texas Winter 2017-2018

#2025 Postby TeamPlayersBlue » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:46 am

If temps come in cooler than guidance, could be a hot mess for SE Tx.
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Re: Texas Winter 2017-2018

#2026 Postby TeamPlayersBlue » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:48 am

I think JB is onto your research, Ntx.

https://twitter.com/bigjoebastardi/stat ... 3012045825
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Re: Texas Winter 2017-2018

#2027 Postby Brent » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:56 am

EPS looks like the SE ridge is a lot weaker and temps arent as cold here

GEFS looks like status quo, SE ridge and much colder
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Re: Texas Winter 2017-2018

#2028 Postby Cpv17 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:57 am

TeamPlayersBlue wrote:If temps come in cooler than guidance, could be a hot mess for SE Tx.

SE TX has been in the jackpot of weather events lately. I doubt it changes now.
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Re: Texas Winter 2017-2018

#2029 Postby TeamPlayersBlue » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:03 am

Cpv17 wrote:
TeamPlayersBlue wrote:If temps come in cooler than guidance, could be a hot mess for SE Tx.

SE TX has been in the jackpot of weather events lately. I doubt it changes now.


Showing Temp 36F DP 34 on the morning of the 23rd. For some reason the DP climbs to 34 from 29 in 21 hours at the surface despite a steady North wind. I find that interesting. Unfortunately, the way the soundings look, would be all FRZ, not even sleet. HUGE warm nose.

Getting a grasp on what the model soundings look like now so i can compare each run. Helped alot with the last event.

One thing, the ENTIRE column over most of Texas is moist all the way up to 200 MB. Thats crazy.
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Re: Texas Winter 2017-2018

#2030 Postby Lagreeneyes03 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:08 am

sphelps8681 wrote:
Cpv17 wrote:
sphelps8681 wrote:I have some friends traveling to Longview at Christmas from Beaumont, Tx. What will they encounter?

I would air on the side of caution and not recommend anyone be on the roadways in the state of TX on Christmas Day. Could be a huge mess out there and it’s simply not worth taking a chance. Especially with the way it’s looking now.



Thank you. I will let them know. I was already telling them they were going in to a big mess if they went that way.


Tell them to leave on the 23rd.
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Re: Texas Winter 2017-2018

#2031 Postby Cpv17 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:10 am

TeamPlayersBlue wrote:
Cpv17 wrote:
TeamPlayersBlue wrote:If temps come in cooler than guidance, could be a hot mess for SE Tx.

SE TX has been in the jackpot of weather events lately. I doubt it changes now.


Showing Temp 36F DP 34 on the morning of the 23rd. For some reason the DP climbs to 34 from 29 in 21 hours at the surface despite a steady North wind. I find that interesting. Unfortunately, the way the soundings look, would be all FRZ, not even sleet. HUGE warm nose.

Getting a grasp on what the model soundings look like now so i can compare each run. Helped alot with the last event.

One thing, the ENTIRE column over most of Texas is moist all the way up to 200 MB. Thats crazy.

This could very well be a historic weather event. With the way the weather has gone for us here in this part of TX lately that wouldn’t surprise me a bit. I kind of think it’s just mother nature’s way of balancing everything out.
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Re: Texas Winter 2017-2018

#2032 Postby gpsnowman » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:54 am

Woke up and couldn't fall back asleep so I caught up on all the posts. I am really getting concerned about the weekend. My wife and daughter fly back from Mexico City Saturday evening and then we are to drive east that night for Christmas. Even if Saturday night is ok, the return on the 26th looks dicey. Damn, what to do?? Definitely excited about the cold and snow but tbe timing couldn't be worse.
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Re: Texas Winter 2017-2018

#2033 Postby Ralph's Weather » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:09 am

missygirl810 wrote:Ok, dumb question, but going to ask anyway, is Hunt Co considered North TX or Northeast Tx, or Central TX? I have heard all three for my area lol

I would say Hunt Co would be N TX but very near the line with NE TX. For me, N TX is basically Abilene (maybe down to Brownwood) to Wichita Falls east to Athens and Paris. NE TX is east of Paris to Canton and north of I20. E TX is Paris to Buffalo and east to Texarkana to Jasper.
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Re: Texas Winter 2017-2018

#2034 Postby Tammie » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:31 am

Nice long-term write up from NWS-Fort Worth this morning.

545
FXUS64 KFWD 160953
AFDFWD

Area Forecast Discussion
National Weather Service Fort Worth TX
353 AM CST Sat Dec 16 2017


.SHORT TERM...
/Today and Tonight/

The extended dry period should come to an end for much of North
and Central Texas today as an upper low rotates northward across
the Trans-Pecos. Moisture and lift associated with this system
will initially bring increasing mid and high clouds this morning
followed by scattered to numerous showers this afternoon. The best
moisture and lift will reside across the southern/southeastern
zones where we will carry the highest PoPs. Although surface based
instability will be negligible, some weak mid level instability
will be present which may result in a few intermittent lightning
strikes. The favored rain area will shift to the eastern zones
this evening as the upper low lifts into the Eastern Texas
Panhandle. Precipitation will end quickly from west to east
tonight when much drier air moves in from the southwest. Total
rainfall from this system will range from only a few hundredths of
an inch across the west/northwest zones to nearly an inch across
the southeast.

The extensive cloud cover today will offset increasing low level
warm air advection some and keep temperatures near or slightly
below seasonal normals with highs generally in the 50s. Although
the rain will move out tonight, the low levels will remain near
saturation which will result in some low clouds and even some
patchy fog. Overnight lows will be considerably warmer than they
have been and generally in the lower and middle 40s.

We were concerned over the past few days that the fire threat
might become elevated across the northern half of the region this
afternoon. It now appears the clouds and moisture return will be
sufficient to limit fire growth. However, fine dead fuels will
remain abundant and winds will increase this afternoon so some
small fire starts will still be possible.

79

&&

.LONG TERM...
/Sunday and Beyond/

The vigorous shortwave which will be responsible for Saturday
night`s rainfall will be quickly peeling away from the region by
early Sunday morning. This will leave North and Central Texas in a
subsident wake as an incoming shortwave ridge axis fosters rapid
mid-level height rises through the day. While no precipitation is
expected on Sunday, copious amounts of moisture will remain
trapped beneath a strong inversion just about 2000 feet off the
surface resulting in pervasive low cloud cover and fog during the
morning. Subsiding and drying air will, however, eventually erode
the low cloud deck across most of the region during the
afternoon, allowing temperatures to rise into the upper 60s to
near 70 degrees out west, and into the lower to middle 60s
elsewhere.

Another rather vigorous shortwave trough is then slated to
approach the region Monday afternoon, before departing to the east
by Wednesday. This system, which is presently dropping southward
along the California Coast early this morning, was initially
expected to fracture into two to perhaps three separate vorticity
centers, effectively diffusing available forcing for ascent over
the region and keeping precip chances relatively low. Recent
guidance, however, has all trended towards developing a much more
coherent singular upper-low center more or less intact. As a
result, much more lift and moisture appears like it will be
available Tuesday into Wednesday, and PoPs have been raised
significantly across the region. While some initial light warm
advection showers are possible as early as Monday afternoon across
parts of the region, the best chances for rainfall are slated to
arrive on Tuesday afternoon, and linger through the overnight
hours. Isolated thunder has also been added to the forecast given
the increased lift and much cooler mid-levels as the core of the
upper-low drifts overhead.

Not much will be shaking on the weather front on Wednesday as this
latest system departs to the east and lingering moisture is
gradually scoured out. Temperatures should manage to rise into the
mid 60s and perhaps into the 70s across Central Texas under
thinning cloud cover. Thursday also looks like it will feature
rather benign weather outside of some gusty southwesterly winds
ahead of the next set of potentially weather feature(s) into the
Christmas weekend.

First, as we`ve been messaging over the last few days, run-to-run
model consistency regarding the progression, timing, and strength
of an incoming arctic cold front remains quite high during the
Thursday evening-overnight period. And initial sharp north wind
shift and subsequent cool-down is forecast to enter our
northwestern zones as early as early Thursday evening before this
massive density gradient surges into the Gulf of Mexico on Friday
morning. Some light precipitation (non-frozen) is possible at the
surface ahead of the front across our southeastern counties
Thursday evening ahead of the surging wedge of arctic air.

So, piece one of the puzzle can be set down on the table: we`re
fairly confident that much colder air will be present in the
lowest 3-4 thousand feet or so, with wet bulb temperatures
certainly below freezing due to dewpoints in the teens and single
digits.

We can then start to fill in the border pieces somewhat, but
individual details regarding the progression of the all-important
close upper-low (or lack thereof) to our SW remains quite unclear.
We know that exceptional amplification to the +PNA ridge, which
has been a staple of the large-scale weather pattern of late,
should occur as the ridge axis builds through the Arctic Circle,
perhaps coming close to scraping 85 degrees north by next
weekend. We`re also pretty confident that a vort max associated
with energy currently nearing the Bering Sea should crest this
building ridge axis during the middle of next week. What happens
after this is up in the air, and ultimately boils down to where
this shortwave is in relation to the ridge axis as an anticyclonic
wave break occurs. Too far east--like the most recent 00z ECMWF
and last night`s GFS--and this shortwave trough simply slips
eastward, remaining an open wave as it quickly transits Texas sans
much fanfare at all. If this system hangs back just a few hundred
miles farther west as the 2PVU surface pinches off, and you`ve
got a developing closed upper-low near Baja/Sonora.

Roughly speaking, global ensemble and deterministic guidance seems
to be split nearly down the middle into these two camps (a third,
less supported solution is to retrograde the low so far out into
the Pacific it becomes a non-factor in our weather). Since
individual deterministic runs have been swinging back and forth
between these solutions wildly over the last few days and ensemble
guidance remains bifurcated, we can`t say which of these solutions
is the most probable at this juncture.

What we can say, however, is that the upcoming pattern will
support the potential for a Baja-type closed low to usher
moisture into the region up and over the arctic lower-level air,
which would bring a **potential** for impacts due to freezing
rain and sleet (to perhaps the southeastern half of the region)
and snow and sleet (north and west) to the region from Friday
night (December 22nd) through the Christmas weekend (25th). The
alternative being a cold but generally dry scenario through the
weekend.

At some point, ensemble guidance should begin to favor one of
these scenarios enough to begin pinpointing the most likely
upper-level evolution, but until then, nailing down specifics will
be much too premature.

Carlaw
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Re: Texas Winter 2017-2018

#2035 Postby orangeblood » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:40 am

:uarrow: very good discussion out of the FTW NWS office this morning ...bottom line, a few hundred miles could make a difference b/w a winter storm or no storm with this particular setup. Still too far out to make any conclusions and models continue to reflect that uncertainty. I agree with FTW, no need to sound alarms quite yet
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Re: Texas Winter 2017-2018

#2036 Postby opticsguy » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:33 am

What's a 2PVU. Something about potential vorticity?
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Re: Texas Winter 2017-2018

#2037 Postby chrisdanger76 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:02 am

Jumping back on after awhile, it looks to be quite a roller coaster ride for the models and next weekend/xmas.
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Re: Texas Winter 2017-2018

#2038 Postby Tammie » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:56 am

Joe Bastardi via Twitter this morning:
I hold with long standing idea of large scale snow/ice threat Texas to northeast at Christmas week. MJO rotation into 7,8 lights the match. Negative EPO/WPO couplet develops and very tough for cold not to win out with that as troughs cant hit and hold in west. Cold pushes
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Re: Texas Winter 2017-2018

#2039 Postby stormlover2013 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:25 am

5 days away still and we are model hugging, yesterday euro makes it interesting and now we are saying it’s looking like rain, we won’t know till Thursday what’s going to happen
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Re: Texas Winter 2017-2018

#2040 Postby weatherdude1108 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:39 am

EWX long term forecast playing guessing game as well.


Area Forecast Discussion
National Weather Service Austin/San Antonio TX
551 AM CST Sat Dec 16 2017

LONG TERM (Sunday Night through Friday)...
Another upper level low will dig into the Southwest U.S. Sunday and
Monday then advance east into West Texas Tuesday morning. Moisture
gets drawn back north into central and eastern areas of the CWA on
Monday leading to chances for showers. As the upper level low
advances east Monday night and Tuesday increasing synoptic scale
forcing will generate better chances for showers and isolated
thunderstorms. There are some differences in the placement of the
upper level low and developing surface low, with the ECMWF farther
north than the GFS. But generally PoPs have been increased across
central and eastern areas of the CWA for Monday Night and Tuesday.
Drier and warm conditions will develop over South Central Texas on
Wednesday and Thursday behind the departing upper level system.

A modified arctic cold front is forecast to move through the region
by both the GFS and ECMWF Thursday night and by the Canadian Friday
morning. At the same time another in a series of upper level lows is
forecast to cut off by all three models west of the region. This will
lead initially to the potential for cold rain over the area Friday.
There are some GFS ensemble members and the operational ECMWF that
are indicating the potential for a wintry mix of precipitation just
beyond the official forecast, heading into Friday night and Saturday.
It should be stressed that forecast confidence this far out in
winter precip type is very low. Future swings in the models will
likely occur leading to varying winter precip type forecasts.
Nevertheless it is something to pay attention over the upcoming week
given the holiday travel weekend.

&&
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