Texas Winter 2018-2019

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bubba hotep
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Re: Texas Winter 2018-2019

#1041 Postby bubba hotep » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:18 am

rwfromkansas wrote:
snowballzzz wrote:Don't we see this alot with most snow opportunities? The models pick it up 5-7 days out and stay consistent and then lose it all 48 hours out?


This happened last week in OK.


OK was different, models had the system too amped up allowing it to throw moisture back into the cold air across the Panhandle of Texas across to OK City. The system came in flatter and faster and the northern side dried out.

With this current system, it is pulling warm moist air around at 850mb over an already warm surface. It will be hard for dynamics to overcome that closer to the H5 low. That is why snow keeps showing up out to the West of DFW, timing works out better out there.
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Re: Texas Winter 2018-2019

#1042 Postby HockeyTx82 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:25 am

So all is lost? NWS FWD still has rain snow for my area. Just west of Denton. Maybe the forecast has not been updated yet?

We might collectively have a better chance of wining the Powerball then ever seeing snow again in the DFW area......
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Re: Texas Winter 2018-2019

#1043 Postby orangeblood » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:27 am

bubba hotep wrote:
rwfromkansas wrote:
snowballzzz wrote:Don't we see this alot with most snow opportunities? The models pick it up 5-7 days out and stay consistent and then lose it all 48 hours out?


This happened last week in OK.


OK was different, models had the system too amped up allowing it to throw moisture back into the cold air across the Panhandle of Texas across to OK City. The system came in flatter and faster and the northern side dried out.

With this current system, it is pulling warm moist air around at 850mb over an already warm surface. It will be hard for dynamics to overcome that closer to the H5 low. That is why snow keeps showing up out to the West of DFW, timing works out better out there.


Yep, not good!!! Some extremely frustrating past few winters around here....

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Re: Texas Winter 2018-2019

#1044 Postby AubreyStorm » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:39 am

:cold:

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Re: Texas Winter 2018-2019

#1045 Postby orangeblood » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:42 am

Although the WRF does offer some hope...is further east with the surface low allowing colder air to advect in. Lets see what the 12Z has to offer

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Re: Texas Winter 2018-2019

#1046 Postby Portastorm » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:49 am

The 12z NAM run really raises some eyebrows as it shows the ULL even further south than the 0z run. Sheesh, I really didn't think we had much of a chance of seeing snow here in Austin with this system but now I'm not so sure.
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Re: Texas Winter 2018-2019

#1047 Postby bubba hotep » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:53 am

If it isn't going to snow in DFW then I hope the system sticks work the southern track and DFW can pick up a couple of inches of rain with gust in the 50s. Anything other than the dry slot!!
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Re: Texas Winter 2018-2019

#1048 Postby weatherdude1108 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:00 am

Gunna be a west Texas kind of day tomorrow.

Image
Strong northwest winds expected acros all areas in the wake of the cold front. Winds 20 to 30 mph are expected to spread across the area with gusts as high as 50 mph. A Wind Advisory is likely for Thursday. Be sure to secure any outdoor decorations and any other loose outdoor items that may easly blow away with expected winds.
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Re: Texas Winter 2018-2019

#1049 Postby wxman57 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:02 am

Those upper-lows can be trouble. Cold air in the center can lead to snow along the track. This case looks a bit marginal temperature-wise for southern areas such as San Antonio or Austin, but it could produce sleet and a few flakes that far south.
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Re: Texas Winter 2018-2019

#1050 Postby TheProfessor » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:13 am

The DFW folks are going to want a faster system that's stronger and further to the east of them so that cold air advection can be maximized. Here's the thing, if the Wrf and even the NAM models to a certain degree there's going to be a train of cold air advection moving almost due north to south . There is a snow pack in northern North Dakota and just north of there in southern Canada. There's also a light snow pack in Nebraska(according to the GFS). This means that the cold air will still moderate, but probably at a slower rate. The cold air will likely be moving southward fast too. The stronger this low is, the more it can pull this cold air from the north.

Basically this is going to be a bang bang storm, but, if it's faster(It's best for the snow to happen at night) further east, and stronger, then I believe DFW will be in for a surprise. If the 0z Wrf models are correct then the cold air advection will be fairly impressive and the storm will be very dynamic.
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Re: Texas Winter 2018-2019

#1051 Postby weatherdude1108 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:20 am

Good discussion by the EWX office.

000
FXUS64 KEWX 120902
AFDEWX

Area Forecast Discussion
National Weather Service Austin/San Antonio TX
302 AM CST Wed Dec 12 2018

.SHORT TERM (Today through Thursday Night)...
Low and high level clouds are in place across much of South Central
Texas at the present time. Southerly flow has also returned and with
that an increase in surface dewpoints. With the increase in surface
moisture, some members of guidance continues to show the possibility
of some fog around or after daybreak for portions of the western CWA.
Have not seen any fog reported yet, but will continue to monitor for
any needed updates to the current area of fog we have in the
forecast.

Latest water vapor imagery shows a strong shortwave trough axis south
of California moving to the east. Ahead of it, clouds/moisture should
continue to stream east over Texas. The influences of this system
will begin to be felt later today with some weak light showers
possible in the eastern counties. Highs today will top out in the
lower 60s to near 70 degrees.

More significant upper forcing arrives this evening as the shortwave
reaches the region. Latest runs of both the synoptic and high-res
models show a decent coverage of shower activity this evening and
overnight. Will show 20 PoPs in the Edwards plateau, 30-40 PoPs for
the Hill Country and I-35/37 corridors and 50-60 PoPs for the eastern
CWA in the tonight period. There should be enough instability to
support some isolated thunderstorms as well and will mention Iso-T
with the chance of showers.
Lows tonight will bottom out in the
middle 40s to near 60 with the cooler temperatures west of Highway
281.

A secondary, but stronger upper low will drop in from the northwest
on Thursday into the region. This system is now beginning to enter
the Pacific northwest and can also be seen on water vapor. This low
will be compact but dynamic with tight pressure gradients and a
strong wind field associated with it.
The cold front or leading edge
to the higher winds will arrive to the western CWA in the mid-morning
hours before quickly overtaking the rest of the CWA. The main story
on Thursday will be the high winds associated with this system behind
the front. By the mid-late afternoon hours expect sustained speeds
around 25-35 mph with gusts up to 50 mph possible over a large part
of the CWA with the higher winds mainly west of the I35 corridor.
Wind speeds should be highest for the Rio Grande counties. Will
likely need a Wind Advisory for tomorrow and this may need to be
issued on the day shift, or definitely by the midnight shift tonight.
With the expected high winds and dry air there will definitely be a
fire weather threat and for more information on that see the Fire
Weather section at the end of the AFD.

The talk over the past several days has been over the eventual track
of the upper low and the influence that would have for the weather in
our northern counties Thursday afternoon through Thursday night. A
more northerly track would mean we`d get the mid-level dry slot and
not much in the way of precip chances, but a track more to the south
would equate to wrap around moisture and precipitation. As previously
mentioned, the trough axis has now moved over the NW CONUS and was
sampled by 00z upper air soundings. As a result, models have honed in
on a track that favors the southerly track the ECMWF has been showing
over the past several days. By late Thursday afternoon, clouds will
once again be on the increase as the low begins to move east of the
area and wrap around moisture moves into the area.

The focus then shifts on precip type for our northern counties. We
favor a top-down approach of the atmosphere to determine precip type.
By the evening hours, moisture quickly increases with near saturation
from the tropopause down to about 850 mb. Moisture in the dendritic
ice growth zone means snow will be produced by the lift on the
backside of the low. Then looking at the temperature profile, models
show a freezing level across the CWA in the evening hours ranging
from 3250 feet across Llano County with higher values elsewhere. This
would support all precip melting in this surface to freezing level
layer with a rain forecast. However, forecast soundings show a decent
dry layer below 850 mb. If precipitation were heavy enough, some
evaporative cooling would be expected which would cool this small
portion of the column and thus lowering the freezing level. Models
don`t really do a good job simulating this so we will have to infer
that it is possible. With these deep core systems, there can easily
be a burst in precipitation on the backsides that would support this
outcome. Therefore, some snow mixing in with the rain is possible
for portions of our CWA Thursday night as the upper low exits to the
east.
For now will include a mention of rain or snow for areas north
of a line from Kerr County to northern Kendall County to Burnet
County. This area is where the GFS forecast surface wet bulb
temperatures of 34 degrees. The wet bulb temperature is the
temperature of the air if full evaporative cooling could take place.
Since we are not expecting temperatures to reach freezing Thursday
night, any impacts from possible snowfall would be minimal with brief
accumulations only possible on grassy or elevated surfaces
. Rain
will be in the forecast for other areas north of a Bandera to Comal
to Fayette County line. The chances of accumulating snow will be best
well to our north, in the San Angelo and Fort Worth CWAs.

&&

.LONG TERM (Friday through Tuesday)...
The upper low is expected to push east by Friday morning and will
show a dry forecast Friday and through the early part of next week.
Shortwave ridging is expected to briefly return which should help
keep the forecast dry. Highs will then begin to moderate with highs
back into the middle to upper 60s by Monday. Models have backed up
the timing of the next system into Wednesday instead of Tuesday and
took out the low rain chances for Tuesday.
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Re: Texas Winter 2018-2019

#1052 Postby jaguars_22 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:22 am

So further south of san antonio would have to make our own ice??
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Re: Texas Winter 2018-2019

#1053 Postby wxman22 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:24 am

Update from Jeff:

Another highly dynamic storm system heading for the area.

Brief heavy rainfall and very strong winds likely.

Active weather event likely late tonight-Friday with multiple impacts across the state. Surface low pressure will rapidly develop today in response to the approach of a strong upper/mid level low out of the NW US. Southerly flow overnight has already begun to return moisture to the region and expect this increase in moisture to continue today. Lift will gradually increase today into tonight and a weak cool front/dryline feature will move across the area early Thursday morning (100am-800am). This feature will likely produce a line of thunderstorms with brief heavy rainfall of 1-2 inches likely. Fast movement of the line should preclude any significant flooding concerns, but some ponding on roadways will be possible during the morning commute on Thursday. Expected rainfall should not have any significant changes to ongoing river flooding over the area given the expected low totals and fairly small spatial coverage of this event. May see a brief rise on the West Fork of the San Jacinto River given the flashly nature of Spring and Cypress Creek drainage.

Approach of the strong upper level system on Thursday will help to rapidly deepen the surface low over TX and greatly tighten the pressure gradient. A powerful low level jet will develop on the backside of the surface low pressure system over eastern TX allowing very strong NW winds to spread out of WC TX into much of the state during the afternoon hours. Sustained winds of 25-35mph are likely with frequent gust to 40-45mph especially west of a line from College Station to Bay City and then along the coast. Solid gale conditions are expected across the coastal waters and area near the coastal bend could see storm force conditions with frequent gusts over 50kts over those waters. Winds will howl Thursday night with the pressure gradient remaining tight before starting to weaken by Friday afternoon. Sporadic power outages can be expected with these kind of winds along with disruptions to aviation travel at the various airports.

Thursday night/Friday morning:
Dynamic core of the upper level low will move just north of SE TX will additional lift being generated. Air mass looks to be fairly dry in the low levels as strong NW winds scour out the moisture. Strong cold air advection will drive temperatures into the 40’s by Friday morning with wind chills well into the 30’s with the strong winds. A mixture of light snow/rain will be moving from C TX toward SE TX Friday morning in association with the cold core upper level low. Think most of this precipitation will weaken and fall apart before arriving into SE TX, but cannot rule out some flurries or sleet north of a Columbus to Hempstead to Livingston line Friday morning. With surface temperatures remaining well above freezing…anything that falls will result in NO impacts.


Marine:
Extremely hazardous marine conditions will be developing on Thursday and lasting in Friday. Gale watch is up for all waters including Matagorda and Galveston Bays and expecting sustained winds of 30-35kts with frequent gusts of 40-45kts over the upper TX coastal waters and even the inland bays. Winds may be a bit higher toward Matagorda Bay and offshore the coastal bend with gust over 50kts. Seas will builds 12-14 feet quickly offshore Thursday night and 6-7 feet in the inland bays. Visibility will reduce offshore in blowing sea spray. Small craft should remain in port Thursday into Friday. Winds will gradually weaken on Friday as the pressure gradient slackens.

Strong offshore flow will drive water level below normal and a Low Water Advisory will be in place Thursday night and Friday as winds push water out of the inland bays. Looking at tides falling 2-3 feet below normal in the Ship Channel and NW sections of Galveston and Matagorda Bays which will produce hazardous marine travel for vessels and increase the risks for groundings.
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Re: Texas Winter 2018-2019

#1054 Postby jaguars_22 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:52 am

Is it me or does the 12 GFS show the core going over houston?
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Re: Texas Winter 2018-2019

#1055 Postby wxman22 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:03 am

:uarrow: Yes, most of the models have the cold core taking a more southern route now moving the core over central Texas and southeast Texas, but I'm not sure there will be enough moisture and cold air to produce snow down here, but cold core lows can be surprising. :wink:
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Re: Texas Winter 2018-2019

#1056 Postby bubba hotep » Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:20 am

12z GFS is very wet for DFW and shows 7"+ of rain out towards Paris, TX. 00z Euro also showed 2-3" of rain across DFW. If this was a cold system then we would be talking record breaking snow event.
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Re: Texas Winter 2018-2019

#1057 Postby Brent » Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:42 am

bubba hotep wrote:12z GFS is very wet for DFW and shows 7"+ of rain out towards Paris, TX. 00z Euro also showed 2-3" of rain across DFW. If this was a cold system then we would be talking record breaking snow event.


Of course lol
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Re: Texas Winter 2018-2019

#1058 Postby Yukon Cornelius » Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:58 am

Winter Storm Watch
URGENT - WINTER WEATHER MESSAGE
National Weather Service Norman OK
401 AM CST Wed Dec 12 2018

...Heavy Wet Snow Possible with Strong Winds on Thursday...

TXZ089-090-122200-
/O.NEW.KOUN.WS.A.0002.181213T1800Z-181214T1200Z/
Archer-Clay-
Including the cities of Archer City, Holliday, Lakeside City,
Scotland, and Henrietta
401 AM CST Wed Dec 12 2018

...WINTER STORM WATCH IN EFFECT FROM THURSDAY AFTERNOON THROUGH
LATE THURSDAY NIGHT...

* WHAT...Heavy wet snow possible. Total snow accumulations of 1
to 3 inches possible. Winds could gust as high as 50 to 55 mph.

* WHERE...Archer and Clay Counties.

* WHEN...From Thursday afternoon through late Thursday night.

* ADDITIONAL DETAILS...Plan on slippery road conditions. The
hazardous conditions could impact the evening commute. Strong
winds could cause tree damage.

PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...

A Winter Storm Watch means there is potential for significant
snow accumulations that may impact travel. Continue to monitor the
latest forecasts.

&&

$$

Mahale
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Re: Texas Winter 2018-2019

#1059 Postby Captmorg70 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:04 pm

So a 2 part question for some of the experienced/knowledgeable members on the board.

1) What trend(s) would be needed in the next 24 hrs or so on the models to indicate a better chance of snow for DFW?

2) Once the event begins, what would be things to look for that the storm in overachieving in terms of more cold than indicated or better chances of snow

TIA
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Re: Texas Winter 2018-2019

#1060 Postby bubba hotep » Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:39 pm

Captmorg70 wrote:So a 2 part question for some of the experienced/knowledgeable members on the board.

1) What trend(s) would be needed in the next 24 hrs or so on the models to indicate a better chance of snow for DFW?

2) Once the event begins, what would be things to look for that the storm in overachieving in terms of more cold than indicated or better chances of snow

TIA


See the post :uarrow: from TheProfessor.
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