Texas Winter 2020-2021

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TeamPlayersBlue
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Re: Texas Winter 2020-2021

#7541 Postby TeamPlayersBlue » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:11 am

orangeblood wrote:
TeamPlayersBlue wrote:
Europe in general does, and the use of wind power lowers this cost. The point is, they are able to run them in climates worse than what we see in Texas. There's no question about the profitability and cost effectiveness of wind power. They wouldn't use it if it wasn't.

I find it very unlikely that maintaining a farm of wind turbines costs more to maintain than a large thermal plant. I dont have specifics, but i find that unlikely. Having thermal as a backup as needed would still be efficient in many scenarios, it's just erratic based on the weather.

Look at the chart you posted, wind power fell just as much as it did in this past winter storm as it did many other times. So what is so different about the behavior for wind power? As stated before, they expected little wind energy during this crisis ahead of time.


You sure about the cost effectiveness of wind in Europe ?? Because there is no empirical evidence to back that assertion up....Europe has some of the most expensive electricity pricing on the planet. As far as cheap energy goes, Europe has failed in that regard!!!

Just look at the 2020 numbers below...Do you think it's a coincidence that the 5 cheapest providers of electricity on the planet have some of the highest uses of Coal/Natural Gas ?? At least to date, renewables can't even come close to competing with Fossil Fuels from a cost perspective.

Country Average price in cents/kWh
Germany .39
Denmark .32
Japan .29
Australia .26
UK .26
Spain .23
France .22
South Africa .15
Brazil .14
USA .14
Canada .11
Russia .06
Nigeria .06
China .08
India .08
Qatar .03


You're spinning my words. I said it LOWERS the cost of energy. All of those countries near the top, mostly European IMPORT their energy supplies from other countries. This is why their energy costs are so high. They import much of their product from Russia at a steep price.

Also, allllll of the countries with low energy costs produce the energy themselves. This is why it's so cheap. Has absolutely nothing to do with the type of energy. Qatar I believe has the largest amount of nat gas reserves in the world.

Energy is so expensive in Europe that many of them have the ability to run solar to lower costs. That's bananas for countries at such a high latitude and with the type of weather they have.
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Re: Texas Winter 2020-2021

#7542 Postby InfernoFlameCat » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:30 am

TeamPlayersBlue wrote:
orangeblood wrote:
TeamPlayersBlue wrote:
Europe in general does, and the use of wind power lowers this cost. The point is, they are able to run them in climates worse than what we see in Texas. There's no question about the profitability and cost effectiveness of wind power. They wouldn't use it if it wasn't.

I find it very unlikely that maintaining a farm of wind turbines costs more to maintain than a large thermal plant. I dont have specifics, but i find that unlikely. Having thermal as a backup as needed would still be efficient in many scenarios, it's just erratic based on the weather.

Look at the chart you posted, wind power fell just as much as it did in this past winter storm as it did many other times. So what is so different about the behavior for wind power? As stated before, they expected little wind energy during this crisis ahead of time.


You sure about the cost effectiveness of wind in Europe ?? Because there is no empirical evidence to back that assertion up....Europe has some of the most expensive electricity pricing on the planet. As far as cheap energy goes, Europe has failed in that regard!!!

Just look at the 2020 numbers below...Do you think it's a coincidence that the 5 cheapest providers of electricity on the planet have some of the highest uses of Coal/Natural Gas ?? At least to date, renewables can't even come close to competing with Fossil Fuels from a cost perspective.

Country Average price in cents/kWh
Germany .39
Denmark .32
Japan .29
Australia .26
UK .26
Spain .23
France .22
South Africa .15
Brazil .14
USA .14
Canada .11
Russia .06
Nigeria .06
China .08
India .08
Qatar .03


You're spinning my words. I said it LOWERS the cost of energy. All of those countries near the top, mostly European IMPORT their energy supplies from other countries. This is why their energy costs are so high. They import much of their product from Russia at a steep price.

Also, allllll of the countries with low energy costs produce the energy themselves. This is why it's so cheap. Has absolutely nothing to do with the type of energy. Qatar I believe has the largest amount of nat gas reserves in the world.

Energy is so expensive in Europe that many of them have the ability to run solar to lower costs. That's bananas for countries at such a high latitude and with the type of weather they have.
While renewable energy may be more costly, it is only a surefire matter of time before nonrenewables SKYROCKET in price as the world depletes these resources. Renewable is the way to go and I am saying this as a conservative. We MUST transfer before this happens or else a terrible depression greater than the Great depression itself will inevitably occur.
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Re: Texas Winter 2020-2021

#7543 Postby tolakram » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:33 am

I'd like to see subsidy neutral numbers when comparing price per hour. Sometimes US subsidies, for example, are not money to reduce costs of a fuel but instead someone making a determination that because we don't tax a fuel it's considered a subsidy. I have a feeling some of the numbers from Europe might include taxes and not actual production costs. It's very difficult if not impossible to get real raw cost numbers, which IMO is a big issue. The reason many agencies want to include taxes is to try and place a 'real cost' on some of the older fuels. I'm not a big fan of 'real cost' solutions because they are, by their very nature, opinions or at best an interpretation of data.

I'm also pro nuke by the way, but I think the reality of getting more nuclear plants online is slim to none.
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Re: Texas Winter 2020-2021

#7544 Postby funster » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:35 am

The wind farm in Antarctica seems to work. -50 degrees in the winter for lows. A balmy -5 when the video was filmed.



Link: https://youtu.be/PmhJdwwpAf4
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Re: Texas Winter 2020-2021

#7545 Postby orangeblood » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:56 am

TeamPlayersBlue wrote:
orangeblood wrote:
TeamPlayersBlue wrote:
Europe in general does, and the use of wind power lowers this cost. The point is, they are able to run them in climates worse than what we see in Texas. There's no question about the profitability and cost effectiveness of wind power. They wouldn't use it if it wasn't.

I find it very unlikely that maintaining a farm of wind turbines costs more to maintain than a large thermal plant. I dont have specifics, but i find that unlikely. Having thermal as a backup as needed would still be efficient in many scenarios, it's just erratic based on the weather.

Look at the chart you posted, wind power fell just as much as it did in this past winter storm as it did many other times. So what is so different about the behavior for wind power? As stated before, they expected little wind energy during this crisis ahead of time.


You sure about the cost effectiveness of wind in Europe ?? Because there is no empirical evidence to back that assertion up....Europe has some of the most expensive electricity pricing on the planet. As far as cheap energy goes, Europe has failed in that regard!!!

Just look at the 2020 numbers below...Do you think it's a coincidence that the 5 cheapest providers of electricity on the planet have some of the highest uses of Coal/Natural Gas ?? At least to date, renewables can't even come close to competing with Fossil Fuels from a cost perspective.

Country Average price in cents/kWh
Germany .39
Denmark .32
Japan .29
Australia .26
UK .26
Spain .23
France .22
South Africa .15
Brazil .14
USA .14
Canada .11
Russia .06
Nigeria .06
China .08
India .08
Qatar .03


You're spinning my words. I said it LOWERS the cost of energy. All of those countries near the top, mostly European IMPORT their energy supplies from other countries. This is why their energy costs are so high. They import much of their product from Russia at a steep price.

Also, allllll of the countries with low energy costs produce the energy themselves. This is why it's so cheap. Has absolutely nothing to do with the type of energy. Qatar I believe has the largest amount of nat gas reserves in the world.

Energy is so expensive in Europe that many of them have the ability to run solar to lower costs. That's bananas for countries at such a high latitude and with the type of weather they have.


Man, going to definitely agree to disagree here....the type of energy absolutely matters, particularly one that is intermittent vs. not. The former needs backup to make the grid more reliable - the infrastructure costs (from renewables and their backups) are enormous in Europe and those costs are being passed down to consumers. Most experts would agree that the Germany renewable experiment is a disaster from a cost perspective.
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Re: Texas Winter 2020-2021

#7546 Postby orangeblood » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:58 am

InfernoFlameCat wrote:
TeamPlayersBlue wrote:
orangeblood wrote:
You sure about the cost effectiveness of wind in Europe ?? Because there is no empirical evidence to back that assertion up....Europe has some of the most expensive electricity pricing on the planet. As far as cheap energy goes, Europe has failed in that regard!!!

Just look at the 2020 numbers below...Do you think it's a coincidence that the 5 cheapest providers of electricity on the planet have some of the highest uses of Coal/Natural Gas ?? At least to date, renewables can't even come close to competing with Fossil Fuels from a cost perspective.

Country Average price in cents/kWh
Germany .39
Denmark .32
Japan .29
Australia .26
UK .26
Spain .23
France .22
South Africa .15
Brazil .14
USA .14
Canada .11
Russia .06
Nigeria .06
China .08
India .08
Qatar .03


You're spinning my words. I said it LOWERS the cost of energy. All of those countries near the top, mostly European IMPORT their energy supplies from other countries. This is why their energy costs are so high. They import much of their product from Russia at a steep price.

Also, allllll of the countries with low energy costs produce the energy themselves. This is why it's so cheap. Has absolutely nothing to do with the type of energy. Qatar I believe has the largest amount of nat gas reserves in the world.

Energy is so expensive in Europe that many of them have the ability to run solar to lower costs. That's bananas for countries at such a high latitude and with the type of weather they have.
While renewable energy may be more costly, it is only a surefire matter of time before nonrenewables SKYROCKET in price as the world depletes these resources. Renewable is the way to go and I am saying this as a conservative. We MUST transfer before this happens or else a terrible depression greater than the Great depression itself will inevitably occur.


If there's any validity to this prediction, NUCLEAR is the answer! France is decent proof of that
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Re: Texas Winter 2020-2021

#7547 Postby Weather Dude » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:00 pm

I don't think it will happen but they should really look into nuclear energy...
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Re: Texas Winter 2020-2021

#7548 Postby cheezyWXguy » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:03 pm

InfernoFlameCat wrote:
TeamPlayersBlue wrote:
orangeblood wrote:
You sure about the cost effectiveness of wind in Europe ?? Because there is no empirical evidence to back that assertion up....Europe has some of the most expensive electricity pricing on the planet. As far as cheap energy goes, Europe has failed in that regard!!!

Just look at the 2020 numbers below...Do you think it's a coincidence that the 5 cheapest providers of electricity on the planet have some of the highest uses of Coal/Natural Gas ?? At least to date, renewables can't even come close to competing with Fossil Fuels from a cost perspective.

Country Average price in cents/kWh
Germany .39
Denmark .32
Japan .29
Australia .26
UK .26
Spain .23
France .22
South Africa .15
Brazil .14
USA .14
Canada .11
Russia .06
Nigeria .06
China .08
India .08
Qatar .03


You're spinning my words. I said it LOWERS the cost of energy. All of those countries near the top, mostly European IMPORT their energy supplies from other countries. This is why their energy costs are so high. They import much of their product from Russia at a steep price.

Also, allllll of the countries with low energy costs produce the energy themselves. This is why it's so cheap. Has absolutely nothing to do with the type of energy. Qatar I believe has the largest amount of nat gas reserves in the world.

Energy is so expensive in Europe that many of them have the ability to run solar to lower costs. That's bananas for countries at such a high latitude and with the type of weather they have.
While renewable energy may be more costly, it is only a surefire matter of time before nonrenewables SKYROCKET in price as the world depletes these resources. Renewable is the way to go and I am saying this as a conservative. We MUST transfer before this happens or else a terrible depression greater than the Great depression itself will inevitably occur.


Sort of. We were initially supposed to run out of oil by now, but new technology has allowed us to more accurately locate reserves, as well as new ways to tap resources that were previously considered inaccessible. And natural gas is in even greater supply. That’s the danger with some of the efforts over the years to hang climate change acceptance on the fear of fuel depletion. Many people who hopped on the bandwagon will jump right back off when they realize they won’t be sitting in the dark in 2040 because we didn’t shift to renewables quickly enough. In my opinion, there are many other reasons, monetary and otherwise, to make the shift.
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Re: Texas Winter 2020-2021

#7549 Postby wxman57 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:06 pm

Time to get back on track and discuss the weather.
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Re: Texas Winter 2020-2021

#7550 Postby InfernoFlameCat » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:13 pm

orangeblood wrote:
InfernoFlameCat wrote:
TeamPlayersBlue wrote:
You're spinning my words. I said it LOWERS the cost of energy. All of those countries near the top, mostly European IMPORT their energy supplies from other countries. This is why their energy costs are so high. They import much of their product from Russia at a steep price.

Also, allllll of the countries with low energy costs produce the energy themselves. This is why it's so cheap. Has absolutely nothing to do with the type of energy. Qatar I believe has the largest amount of nat gas reserves in the world.

Energy is so expensive in Europe that many of them have the ability to run solar to lower costs. That's bananas for countries at such a high latitude and with the type of weather they have.
While renewable energy may be more costly, it is only a surefire matter of time before nonrenewables SKYROCKET in price as the world depletes these resources. Renewable is the way to go and I am saying this as a conservative. We MUST transfer before this happens or else a terrible depression greater than the Great depression itself will inevitably occur.


If there's any validity to this prediction, NUCLEAR is the answer! France is decent proof of that

Hey, if we can do nuclear fusion and actually get more energy out than put in, sure. Otherwise a hard no. Solar is the least favorable source in my opinion but everything else (besides fossil fuels) we need to capitalize on now. Wxman57, can you move this section of thread to off topic?
I created a new thread on off topic.
Last edited by InfernoFlameCat on Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Texas Winter 2020-2021

#7551 Postby gpsnowman » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:17 pm

wxman57 wrote:Time to get back on track and discuss the weather.

The 80 yesterday was nice but a bit warm. The 2 below feels better than 100 with humidity. I was comfortable for several stretches outside that day. I would never do that when it is 95-100 with humidity.
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Re: Texas Winter 2020-2021

#7552 Postby dhweather » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:23 pm

SPC has a large part of North Texas under marginal risk for severe weather Thursday night into early Friday.

Image
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Re: Texas Winter 2020-2021

#7553 Postby Iceresistance » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:23 pm

Very Unsettled pattern to End Winter & Start of Spring . . .

Image
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Winter 2020-2021 :jacket:

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Winter posts are focused mainly for Oklahoma & Texas

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Re: Texas Winter 2020-2021

#7554 Postby InfernoFlameCat » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:26 pm

Iceresistance wrote:Very Unsettled pattern to End Winter & Start of Spring . . .

https://s4.gifyu.com/images/gfs_mslp_pcpn_frzn_scus_fh48-180.gif

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I hate this lull in weather activity between winter and spring.
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Re: Texas Winter 2020-2021

#7555 Postby rwfromkansas » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:44 pm

Got my second COVID shot yesterday and it has knocked me down with fever and aches today. Yuck.

Well, I take it no real cold is coming back. Hopefully will get some storms.
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Re: Texas Winter 2020-2021

#7556 Postby Haris » Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:33 pm

wxman57 wrote:Time to get back on track and discuss the weather.



Thank you! :wink:
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Re: Texas Winter 2020-2021

#7557 Postby Iceresistance » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:15 pm

11 AM update

Image

Storm Season 2021 forum: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=121693
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Winter 2020-2021 :jacket:

Also many Oklahoma Supercells

Winter posts are focused mainly for Oklahoma & Texas

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Re: Texas Winter 2020-2021

#7558 Postby psyclone » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:22 pm

Any insight as to the extent of damage to the hardy (and not so hardy) palms and semi tropical plants in coastal/south Texas? That was some insane cold, even for tougher species. I know there are some royal palms down around Brownsville and they really don't like cold.
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Re: Texas Winter 2020-2021

#7559 Postby captainbarbossa19 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:22 pm

psyclone wrote:Any insight as to the extent of damage to the hardy (and not so hardy) palms and semi tropical plants in coastal/south Texas? That was some insane cold, even for tougher species. I know there are some royal palms down around Brownsville and they really don't like cold.


I cannot speak for the damage in South Texas, but here in Southeast Texas, the damage was extreme. Essentially all tropical plants left outside last week were wiped out. Pretty much all plants hardy down to 20 degrees were wiped out including bottlebrushes. Most citrus trees are toast as well. We have several satsuma trees around 20 years old that look like they may be dead or dying. It was 13 degrees last Tuesday morning at my location, which was the coldest recorded temperature since 1989. I am not sure I have ever seen things so brown before in my area. I was not alive in 1989 though.
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Re: Texas Winter 2020-2021

#7560 Postby Ntxw » Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:00 pm

captainbarbossa19 wrote:
psyclone wrote:Any insight as to the extent of damage to the hardy (and not so hardy) palms and semi tropical plants in coastal/south Texas? That was some insane cold, even for tougher species. I know there are some royal palms down around Brownsville and they really don't like cold.


I cannot speak for the damage in South Texas, but here in Southeast Texas, the damage was extreme. Essentially all tropical plants left outside last week were wiped out. Pretty much all plants hardy down to 20 degrees were wiped out including bottlebrushes. Most citrus trees are toast as well. We have several satsuma trees around 20 years old that look like they may be dead or dying. It was 13 degrees last Tuesday morning at my location, which was the coldest recorded temperature since 1989. I am not sure I have ever seen things so brown before in my area. I was not alive in 1989 though.


Thank you for this! It may also take some time for the damaged flora to be assessed and then more figures will come out in the weeks and months ahead. Right now a lot of the focus is fixing the infrastructure/human relief problem that has probably put a lot of other things on the backburner.
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