Record Heatwave In Australia, death toll down to 173

Weather events from around the world plus Astronomy and Geology and other Natural events.

Moderator: S2k Moderators

Forum rules

The posts in this forum are NOT official forecast and should not be used as such. They are just the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. They are NOT endorsed by any professional institution or STORM2K.

Help Support Storm2K
Message
Author
Ed Mahmoud

Re: Record Heatwave In Australia, fires kill 128

#21 Postby Ed Mahmoud » Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:26 am

HURAKAN wrote:
Ed Mahmoud wrote:Well, if a record heatwave is all it takes to prove global warming, the -50ºF in Maine a couple of weeks ago is all it takes to prove global cooling.


Actually, not to deviate from the main topic, both extremes would tend to occur in a warmer planet where you would have much higher swings in temperatures. A stronger jetstream due to the higher temperature differences would tend to help bring down cold temperatures from the polar regions. People are wrong in thinking that a warmer world means always warmer temps for everyone.

Jeff Masters talks about this in his latest blog. Is the globe cooling?



I know the standard line of the warmingnistas, no matter what the weather does, hot, cold, wet, dry, it proves global warming. Any deviation from the extremes, proves global warming. I know. Nothing can happen that might challenge the 'consensus' of inter-governmental organizations and researchers that would cease to exist if there wasn't a 'crisis' to be researched.


Why the standard rules of bureauracracy and the change in much scientific research (and sources of funding) since World War 2 means any challenge to the AGW orthodoxy is not well received.
0 likes   

User avatar
vbhoutex
Storm2k Executive
Storm2k Executive
Posts: 28974
Age: 72
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2002 11:31 pm
Location: Spring Branch area, Houston, TX
Contact:

Re: Record Heatwave In Australia, fires kill 135

#22 Postby vbhoutex » Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:11 am

This is a HORRIBLE TRAGEDY!!!! I pray that they get a weather change soon that will surpress the heat and give them fire dousing rains and moisture.

Keep the global warming arguments out of this thread please!!!
0 likes   

User avatar
HURAKAN
Professional-Met
Professional-Met
Posts: 46086
Age: 37
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 4:34 pm
Location: Key West, FL
Contact:

#23 Postby HURAKAN » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:36 am

0 likes   

User avatar
vbhoutex
Storm2k Executive
Storm2k Executive
Posts: 28974
Age: 72
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2002 11:31 pm
Location: Spring Branch area, Houston, TX
Contact:

Re: Record Heatwave In Australia, fires kill 171

#24 Postby vbhoutex » Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:42 pm

If they catch any of the arsonists they should be slow roasted over a bed of coals which is more than they deserve!!! Death toll is now 173(NBC news).
0 likes   

User avatar
HURAKAN
Professional-Met
Professional-Met
Posts: 46086
Age: 37
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 4:34 pm
Location: Key West, FL
Contact:

#25 Postby HURAKAN » Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:48 pm

Death toll may rise up to 230. A human tragedy of gigantic proportions.

Link: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st ... 01,00.html
0 likes   

User avatar
HURAKAN
Professional-Met
Professional-Met
Posts: 46086
Age: 37
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 4:34 pm
Location: Key West, FL
Contact:

#26 Postby HURAKAN » Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:55 pm

Image

Accuweather.
0 likes   

User avatar
HURAKAN
Professional-Met
Professional-Met
Posts: 46086
Age: 37
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 4:34 pm
Location: Key West, FL
Contact:

Re: Record Heatwave In Australia, fires kill 173

#27 Postby HURAKAN » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:58 pm

Image
Satellite images show the extent of the Australia bushfires on 7 February - with smoke drifting across the region.

Image
Some rural communities have been wiped out by the fires, with families killed and houses and property destroyed.

Image
Witnesses say the fires swept through the communities - of Kinglake (left) and Marysville (right) in a matter of minutes - giving residents little time to escape.

Image
Meanwhile, firefighters continue to battle bushfires elsewhere in Victoria state.

Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-p ... 879097.stm
0 likes   

HurricaneBill
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 3420
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 5:51 pm
Location: East Longmeadow, MA, USA

Re: Record Heatwave In Australia, fires kill 173

#28 Postby HurricaneBill » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:10 am

0 likes   

User avatar
HURAKAN
Professional-Met
Professional-Met
Posts: 46086
Age: 37
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 4:34 pm
Location: Key West, FL
Contact:

Re: Record Heatwave In Australia, fires kill 173

#29 Postby HURAKAN » Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:26 am

Image

Koala rescued from Australia's wildfire wasteland

55 minutes ago

HEALESVILLE, Australia (AP) — Firefighter David Tree and his crew were patrolling land already burnt out by Australia's devastating wildfires looking for flare-ups when he spotted a koala moving gingerly across the blackened landscape.

"I just pulled the truck over, bailed out and went after him," Tree told The Associated Press on Tuesday. "I love nature, and I've handled koalas before. They're not the friendliest things, but I wanted to help him."

The koala, clearly in pain from scorched paws, stopped when it saw Tree following behind.

"It was amazing, he turned around, sat on his bum and sort of looked at me with (a look) like, put me out of my misery," Tree said. "I yelled out for a bottle of water. I unscrewed the bottle, tipped it up on his lips and he just took it naturally. He kept reaching for the bottle, almost like a baby."

The team called animal welfare officers as it resumed its patrols on Sunday, the day after the firestorms swept southern Victoria state. Tree says he's spoken to wildlife officials, and the koala, nicknamed Sam, is doing fine. And it turns out he's a she.

The rescue was one small bright moment in Australia's wildfire tragedy. Thousands of hectares (acres) have been burned out, almost 1,000 homes destroyed and more than 180 people killed.

Countless animals were killed in the disaster, which hit farming and forest regions to the north and east of the Victoria state capital of Melbourne, and many more fled in panic.

The Royal Society for the Protection of Animals said it was establishing shelters to care for thousands of pets and livestock affected by the disaster.
0 likes   

User avatar
HURAKAN
Professional-Met
Professional-Met
Posts: 46086
Age: 37
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 4:34 pm
Location: Key West, FL
Contact:

#30 Postby HURAKAN » Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:42 am

0 likes   

Sanibel
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 10348
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2004 11:06 pm
Location: Offshore SW Florida

Re: Record Heatwave In Australia, fires kill 181

#31 Postby Sanibel » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:09 am

Keep the global warming arguments out of this thread please!!!



Ah, but that was sort of the topic. The Australians blamed the heatwave on gw.
0 likes   

User avatar
HURAKAN
Professional-Met
Professional-Met
Posts: 46086
Age: 37
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 4:34 pm
Location: Key West, FL
Contact:

#32 Postby HURAKAN » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:11 pm

Image
0 likes   

HurricaneBill
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 3420
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 5:51 pm
Location: East Longmeadow, MA, USA

Re: Record Heatwave In Australia, fires kill 181

#33 Postby HurricaneBill » Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:38 am

Footage from shortly after the firestorm swept through

At around 0:15-0:22 in this next link, you get to see how quickly the fire spreads:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PWr7x7zPiQ
0 likes   

caneman

Re: Record Heatwave In Australia, fires kill 128

#34 Postby caneman » Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:35 am

HURAKAN wrote:
Ed Mahmoud wrote:Well, if a record heatwave is all it takes to prove global warming, the -50ºF in Maine a couple of weeks ago is all it takes to prove global cooling.


Actually, not to deviate from the main topic, both extremes would tend to occur in a warmer planet where you would have much higher swings in temperatures. A stronger jetstream due to the higher temperature differences would tend to help bring down cold temperatures from the polar regions. People are wrong in thinking that a warmer world means always warmer temps for everyone.

Jeff Masters talks about this in his latest blog. Is the globe cooling?


Interesting that this argument was never presented initially. Only once other areas started having extreme cold weather did it come up. Same thing with Hurricanes. Once it was determined that hey we haven't had more frequent and intense Hurricanes, as forecast by GW'ers did it come up that GW'ers now believe there will actually be fewer Hurricanes. These are actually classic examples of conclusion first then find then find facts to support and then change them as necessary. This isn't science! It's hogwash. And this does belong in this thred due to the title of the thread.
0 likes   

User avatar
HURAKAN
Professional-Met
Professional-Met
Posts: 46086
Age: 37
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 4:34 pm
Location: Key West, FL
Contact:

Re: Record Heatwave In Australia, fires kill 181

#35 Postby HURAKAN » Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:50 pm

Australian Bushfire Death Toll May Hit 300; Police Probe Arson

Feb. 12 (Bloomberg) -- The death toll from Australia’s deadliest bushfires may reach 300, officials said, as police probe whether the blaze in the worst-hit town of Marysville was lit deliberately.

At least 181 people are confirmed dead in the wildfires sweeping through Victoria state and the coroner is prepared for as many as 300 bodies, Police Commissioner Christine Nixon told the Australian Broadcasting Corp.

“We are going house by house, street by street to search for bodies,” Nixon told the ABC’s Lateline program yesterday. Authorities believe “there are clearly more people who have died in this fire.”

The bushfires destroyed four major towns and dozens of hamlets, razing more than 1,000 houses and leaving 4,200 people homeless, according to the Country Fire Authority. As many as 100 of the 500 residents of Marysville, a town 60 kilometers (30 miles) northeast of the state capital, Melbourne, may have died and authorities view that fire as suspicious, Nixon said.

“The direction it came from, the pace it came with, all of those things are a part of the way we investigate a fire,” Nixon told the ABC. “Part of the concerns about Marysville is that it was just unexplained.”

Road blocks are set up around the town to prevent anyone except authorities from entering. Bodies are still being removed from buildings and being identified, Victorian Premier John Brumby said yesterday.

Record High Temperatures

Two weeks of record high temperatures, that reached 46.4 degrees Celsius (115 degrees Fahrenheit) in Melbourne, and hot northerly gales across southeast Australia made conditions over the weekend worse than in February 1983, when 75 people in Victoria and neighboring South Australia died in what are known as the Ash Wednesday fires.

Thirty blazes are still burning across Victoria, with firefighters tackling three major fronts, the CFA said. Milder weather is allowing authorities to build so-called containment lines -- bulldozing away scrub and forest -- to slow the progress of the fires.

Victorian police believe fires in the Churchill area, southeast of Melbourne, were deliberately lit and the arson squad is investigating another 173 sites, CFA Chief Fire Officer Russell Rees said earlier this week.

Two people are “assisting police” in their inquiries in relation to fires in Yea and Seymour, Victoria Police said in a statement today.

People found guilty of arson can expect to be jailed for 25 years, the same penalty that applies to a murder conviction in Victoria, Brumby said this week.

Memorial Service

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd’s office said the federal government is planning a memorial service for the bushfire victims. “The whole nation stands with Victoria during this time of national tragedy,” it said in a statement.

The Australian Red Cross said its bushfire appeal has raised A$50 million ($32 million).

More than 450,000 hectares (1.1 million acres) of land has been destroyed, according to the CFA. The total damage of the blazes may be more than A$2 billion, Standard & Poor’s said.
0 likes   

Skyhawk
Tropical Storm
Tropical Storm
Posts: 113
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2003 7:50 am
Location: Morgantown, WV

Re: Record Heatwave In Australia, fires kill 181

#36 Postby Skyhawk » Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:53 pm

There's hot weather, then there are fires, and then there are deaths.

Perhaps the path between hot weather and deaths is not so direct. There's another element thats received very little attention.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/angry ... ml?page=-1

Angry survivors blame council 'green' policy

Andrea Petrie, Arthurs Creek
February 11, 2009

ANGRY residents last night accused local authorities of contributing to the bushfire toll by failing to let residents chop down trees and clear up bushland that posed a fire risk.

During question time at a packed community meeting in Arthurs Creek on Melbourne's northern fringe, Warwick Spooner — whose mother Marilyn and brother Damien perished along with their home in the Strathewen blaze — criticised the Nillumbik council for the limitations it placed on residents wanting the council's help or permission to clean up around their properties in preparation for the bushfire season. "We've lost two people in my family because you ********* won't cut trees down," he said.

"We wanted trees cut down on the side of the road … and you can't even cut the grass for God's sake."

Later, the meeting was cut short when Mr Spooner's father, Dennis, collapsed in his chair and an ambulance had to be called. Despite losing his wife and son and everything he owned, a friend later said he had not stopped or slept since the weekend.

Another resident said she had asked the council four times to tend to out-of-control growth on public land near her home, but her pleas had been ignored.

There was widespread applause when Nillumbik Mayor Bo Bendtsen said changes were likely to be made about the council's policy surrounding native vegetation.

But his response was not good enough for Mr Spooner: "It's too late now mate. We've lost families, we've lost people."

More than 500 people spilled out of the small hall during the meeting, at which the CFA, Victoria Police, Department of Human Services and Telstra provided updates.

Many expressed anger that police road blocks were stopping them from reaching survivors trapped in fire-ravaged areas with no water, power or other basic needs. One man present spoke of counselling a woman whose two children had been killed and whose grief had been compounded by not knowing where they were because the area had been declared a crime scene and she had not been allowed to return.

Most of those present were tired, grieving the loss of relatives and friends and with little more than the smoke-coated clothes on their backs. Some were still showing symptoms of shock after experiencing the worst natural disaster in the nation's history.

Scattered around the hall and outside were trestle tables with clothing sorted in neat piles, toiletries, food and bottled water. On the floor were dozens of pairs of shoes. There was also a section dedicated to baby clothes and another for children's toys.

Of all the speakers who addressed the meeting, it was Arthurs Creek CFA Captain David McGahy who got the most rousing reception.

Choking back tears he told them: "I'm so terribly sorry. We desperately wanted to protect you but we couldn't.

"In the cold analysis of light, it wouldn't have mattered if we'd have had 200 units here, all that would have happened is we would have ended up with a whole lot of dead firefighters. I've been at this game for about 40 years and I haven't experienced anything like that, not even remotely like it."
0 likes   

User avatar
Aslkahuna
Professional-Met
Professional-Met
Posts: 4550
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2003 5:00 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ
Contact:

Re: Record Heatwave In Australia, fires kill 181

#37 Postby Aslkahuna » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:53 pm

We have the same issues in this Country-anytime anyone wants to thin out forests to reduce the danger from blowup wildfires, certain environmental groups go ballistic. We lost several towns in Arizona for that very same reason during the Rodeo-Chediski and Aspen fires a few years ago.

Steve
0 likes   

Skyhawk
Tropical Storm
Tropical Storm
Posts: 113
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2003 7:50 am
Location: Morgantown, WV

Re: Record Heatwave In Australia, fires kill 181

#38 Postby Skyhawk » Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:27 pm

Editorial from The Sydney Morning Herald

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/green-ide ... ml?page=-1

Green ideas must take blame for deaths

Miranda Devine
February 12, 2009

It wasn't climate change which killed as many as 300 people in Victoria last weekend. It wasn't arsonists. It was the unstoppable intensity of a bushfire, turbo-charged by huge quantities of ground fuel which had been allowed to accumulate over years of drought. It was the power of green ideology over government to oppose attempts to reduce fuel hazards before a megafire erupts, and which prevents landholders from clearing vegetation to protect themselves.

So many people need not have died so horribly. The warnings have been there for a decade. If politicians are intent on whipping up a lynch mob to divert attention from their own culpability, it is not arsonists who should be hanging from lamp-posts but greenies.

Governments appeasing the green beast have ignored numerous state and federal bushfire inquiries over the past decade, almost all of which have recommended increasing the practice of "prescribed burning". Also known as "hazard reduction", it is a methodical regime of burning off flammable ground cover in cooler months, in a controlled fashion, so it does not fuel the inevitable summer bushfires.

In July 2007 Scott Gentle, the Victorian manager of Timber Communities Australia, who lives in Healesville where two fires were still burning yesterday, gave testimony to a Victorian parliamentary bushfire inquiry so prescient it sends a chill down your spine.

"Living in an area like Healesville, whether because of dumb luck or whatever, we have not experienced a fire … since … about 1963. God help us if we ever do, because it will make Ash Wednesday look like a picnic." God help him, he was right.

Gentle complained of obstruction from green local government authorities of any type of fire mitigation strategies. He told of green interference at Kinglake - at the epicentre of Saturday's disaster, where at least 147 people died - during a smaller fire there in 2007.

"The contractors were out working on the fire lines. They put in containment lines and cleared off some of the fire trails. Two weeks later that fire broke out, but unfortunately those trails had been blocked up again [by greens] to turn it back to its natural state … Instances like that are just too numerous to mention. Governments … have been in too much of a rush to appease green idealism … This thing about locking up forests is just not working."

The Kinglake area was a nature-loving community of tree-changers, organic farmers and artists to the north of Melbourne. A council committed to reducing carbon emissions dominates the Nillumbik shire, a so-called "green wedge" area, where restrictions on removing vegetation around houses reportedly added to the dangers. In nearby St Andrews, where more than 20 people are believed to have died, surviving residents have spoken angrily of "greenies" who prevented them from cutting back trees near their property, including in one case, a tea tree that went "whoomp". Dr Phil Cheney, the former head of the CSIRO's bushfire research unit and one of the pioneers of prescribed burning, said yesterday if the fire-ravaged Victorian areas had been hazard-reduced, the flames would not have been as intense.

Kinglake and Maryville, now crime scenes, are built among tall forests of messmate stringy bark trees which pose a special fire hazard, with peeling bark creating firebrands that carry fire five kilometres out. "The only way to reduce the flammability of the bark is by prescribed burning" every five to seven years, Cheney said. He estimates between 35 and 50 tonnes a hectare of dry fuel were waiting to be gobbled up by Saturday's inferno.

Fuel loads above about eight tonnes a hectare are considered a fire hazard. A federal parliamentary inquiry into bushfires in 2003 heard that a fourfold increase in ground fuel leads to a 13-fold increase in the heat generated by a fire.

Things are no better in NSW, although we don't quite have Victoria's perfect storm of winds and forest types. Near Dubbo two years ago, as a bushfire raged through the Goonoo Community Conservation Area, volunteer firefighters bulldozing a control line were obstructed by National Parks and Wildlife Service employees who had driven from Sydney to stop vegetation being damaged.

The poor management of national parks and state forests in Victoria is highlighted by the interactive fire map on the website of the Department of Sustainability and Environment. Yesterday it showed that, of 148 fires started since mid-January, 120 started in state forests, national parks, or other public land, and just 21 on private property.

Only seven months ago, the Victorian Parliament's Environment and Natural Resources Committee tabled its report into the impact of public land management on bushfires, with five recommendations to enhance prescribed burning. This included tripling the amount of land to be hazard-reduced from 130,000 to 385,000 hectares a year. There has been little but lip service from the Government in response. Teary politicians might pepper their talking points with opportunistic intimations of "climate change" and "unprecedented" weather, but they are only diverting the blame. With yes-minister fudging and craven inclusion of green lobbyists in decision-making, they have greatly exacerbated this tragedy.

There is an opening now in Victoria for a predatory legal firm with a taste for David v Goliath class actions.

devinemiranda@hotmail.com
0 likes   

Sanibel
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 10348
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2004 11:06 pm
Location: Offshore SW Florida

Re: Record Heatwave In Australia, fires kill 181

#39 Postby Sanibel » Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:29 pm

Prescribed burns probably would have helped the situation, but at 115 degrees it sounds like a southern California situation where the firestorm is so intense it's going to do appreciable damage anyway.

They may have to look at their fire hazard practices, but broadly attacking the green movement sounds like shooting the messenger to me and opportunism.
0 likes   

User avatar
Aslkahuna
Professional-Met
Professional-Met
Posts: 4550
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2003 5:00 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ
Contact:

Re: Record Heatwave In Australia, fires kill 181

#40 Postby Aslkahuna » Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:28 pm

Actually, you be surprised at how effective brush clearing around a structure or prescribed burns can be. The idea of the latter is to prevent blowups and of the former to protect the structures. You speak of SoCA, most of the homes saved are the ones where the owners clear the brush from their land and also forsake wooden shingles for tile and fire resistant ones. The idea behind prescribed burns and other methods of fuel reduction is to keep the fire down out of the crown and to allow the fire to act as the natural part of the ecosystem it used to be instead of a destructive firestorm. Here in Arizona it's the crackpots belong to the Center for Biological Diversity who constantly file lawsuits to prevent any fire mitigation efforts while Australia has allowed the nimrods to become part of the government process. Personally, we ought to send our trial lawyers over there to help the people slammed these clowns. While on the Bio diversity group here in AZ, it's interesting to note that they are constantly trying to close Fort Huachuca because they claim that it's endangering the San Pedro River because the people who move here to work there use water. Ironically, FHU has the best water conservation record and environmental protection record in the State. This very same group has been invited many times to join the working group that is seeking ways to indeed protect the river but they have refused-which shows that they are frauds pure and simple. I suspect that some of the green groups down under are likewise.

Steve
0 likes   


Return to “Global Weather”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 81 guests