Retirement Surprises

[fasterdisaster]

What are some storms that you either thought should have been retired but weren't, or were retired but you didn't really think they warranted it?

I have one for each (okay, actually two for ones that deserved it)

In no way, shape, or form did Klaus deserve retirement. It's really a shame because that was one of the best hurricane names on any list IMO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Klaus

If you're not familiar with the Category 1 hurricane, I don't blame you. He only killed 11 people in Martinique with winds of 80 mph due to flooding. If he had killed a couple hundred people it would make sense, but frankly it seems like France requests every single name that affects Martinique to be retired.

As for two storms that EASILY deserved retirement but did not get it, Hurricanes Gordon and Emily rank very near the top of the list if not the top two positions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Gordon_(1994)

Gordon killed 1,147 people, mostly in Haiti, but estimates go as high as 2,200. However Gordon was not retired and WMO chastised Haiti's lack of a warning system, citing the comparatively low death toll in Jamaica and Cuba. (NOTE: Should clarify that Gordon wasn't actually requested for retirement)

Just as surprising (though Gordon is probably a bigger surprise for most) IMO is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Emily_(2005)

A Category 5 hurricane, strongest ever in July, hits Mexico TWICE, both times as a MAJOR HURRICANE (once Category 4) and while not astronomically high, did kill 15 people. I realize it wasn't 'catastrophic' in Mexico, however it was still substantial, and I've heard all the arguments, but frankly I think it's ridiculous they didn't retire Emily. Especially when Emily had tried once before to be retired hitting North Carolina as a Category 3, though that was understandable as it hit Cape Hatteras and only caused 3 deaths.

Anyways, what are your retirement surprises? Sorry if I stole the most interesting, but I'm sure there are others out there!

[HURAKAN]

Wait, I thought the thread was going to be about people's retirement. Sorry!!!

Klaus being retired and Emily not being retired.

[Cleveland Kent Evans]

the list if not the top two positions.

Gordon killed 1,147 people, mostly in Haiti, but estimates go as high as 2,200. However the WMO refused to retire Gordon because of Haiti's lack of a warning system, as if it was the civilians' fault.

If you are basing the idea that the WMO refused to retire Gordon because of Haiti's lack of a warning system solely on the Wikipedia article, I think you are overinterpreting. There is no "because" between the two sentences in Wikipedia. The WMO would only have "refused" to retire the name if the appropriate officials in Haiti had requested its retirement, and then it wasn't retired. There is no indication in the Wikipedia article that Haiti requested the name's retirement, so you can't say the WMO refused to do it. The fact that the WMO issued a statement about Haiti's lack of a warning system in regard to Gordon may have nothing at all to do with the non-retirement of the name. The statement the WMO made about warning systems which the Wikipedia article links to has no mention of the retirement of the name, and can't even be said to be "blaming" Haiti for not having a warning system; it's merely using it as an example of the benefits of having one.

http://web.archive.org/web/200608222228 ... rning.html

[masaji79]

Should have been retired:

Juan- 1985
Kate- 1985
Bret- 1993
Gordon- 1994
Emily- 2005

[Derek Ortt]

What are some storms that you either thought should have been retired but weren't, or were retired but you didn't really think they warranted it?

I have one for each (okay, actually two for ones that deserved it)

In no way, shape, or form did Klaus deserve retirement. It's really a shame because that was one of the best hurricane names on any list IMO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Klaus

If you're not familiar with the Category 1 hurricane, I don't blame you. He only killed 11 people in Martinique with winds of 80 mph due to flooding. If he had killed a couple hundred people it would make sense, but frankly it seems like France requests every single name that affects Martinique to be retired.

As for two storms that EASILY deserved retirement but did not get it, Hurricanes Gordon and Emily rank very near the top of the list if not the top two positions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Gordon_(1994)

Gordon killed 1,147 people, mostly in Haiti, but estimates go as high as 2,200. However the WMO refused to retire Gordon because of Haiti's lack of a warning system, as if it was the civilians' fault.

Just as surprising (though Gordon is probably a bigger surprise for most) IMO is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Emily_(2005)

A Category 5 hurricane, strongest ever in July, hits Mexico TWICE, both times as a MAJOR HURRICANE (once Category 4) and while not astronomically high, did kill 15 people. I realize it wasn't 'catastrophic' in Mexico, however it was still substantial, and I've heard all the arguments, but frankly I think it's ridiculous they didn't retire Emily. Especially when Emily had tried once before to be retired hitting North Carolina as a Category 3, though that was understandable as it hit Cape Hatteras and only caused 3 deaths.

Anyways, what are your retirement surprises? Sorry if I stole the most interesting, but I'm sure there are others out there!

No, the WMO did NOT deny the retirement request

Gordon was NEVER requested to be retired

[Derek Ortt]

Should have been retired:

Juan- 1985
Kate- 1985
Bret- 1993
Gordon- 1994
Emily- 2005

Juan: yes
Kate: NO
Bret: NO
Gordon: of course
Emily: maybe (but probably should have been requested by Grenada)

[fasterdisaster]

Sorry, my mistake.

[fasterdisaster]

Hurricane Cesar: (though it makes more sense than Klaus at least) Only a Category 1, he DID kill 67 people but damage was only around $50 million in today's money so while the deaths were tragic I don't think it was enough to warrant retirement.

[Derek Ortt]

Hurricane Cesar: (though it makes more sense than Klaus at least) Only a Category 1, he DID kill 67 people but damage was only around $50 million in today's money so while the deaths were tragic I don't think it was enough to warrant retirement.

I agree fully that Cesar had no business being retired. Was also surprised that Hortense was (if Hortense was, then Alberto should have been... and neither should have been)

[Andrew92]

Off the beaten path: 1955, Hurricane Hilda very well would have been retired today, and probably should have back then. Yes, she was retired in 1964, but in '55 she caused a massive trail of damage and hundreds of fatalities.

-Andrew92

[Matt-hurricanewatcher]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Bob

Based on Bob only killing 10 people directly, also for the fact that it caused, Damage $1.5 billion (1991 USD)(The top says 2.8 billion, weird) . That is currently how much Wiki shows for Dolly, so if this is retired then Dolly is going to be retired. In within a age of storms that can cause tens of billions in damaged, I feel that this should of not been retired.

I'm sorry for all the people that got hit with Lili, but I also believe it should of not been retired. It killed 13 people and caused less then a billlion dollars(822 million at the time).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Lili

Now islandiers don't get mad at me, but I believe Lanny 99 should of never got retired. 17 dead and 330 million dollars don't cut retiring him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Lenny


Isidore should of never also been retired...4 deaths and 970 million in damage...No way should it of been.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Isidore

Canada don't get angry at me, but Juan 2003 don't cut it. Only 4 deaths and 150 million in damage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Juan

Edna, I don't know what to say about you, but 20 deaths and 40 million don't have retirement cred. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Edna

[jconsor]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Bob

Based on Bob only killing 10 people directly, also for the fact that it caused, Damage $1.5 billion (1991 USD)(The top says 2.8 billion, weird) . That is currently how much Wiki shows for Dolly, so if this is retired then Dolly is going to be retired. In within a age of storms that can cause tens of billions in damaged, I feel that this should of not been retired.
...

Edna, I don't know what to say about you, but 20 deaths and 40 million don't have retirement cred. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Edna

Matt, you are not accounting for inflation in your figuring here. Pielke and Landsea did a paper recently ranking damage from TCs normalized to 2005 dollars for inflation and changes in wealth and population: http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/admin ... 008.02.pdf. Their ranking is now included in NHC's official list "The Deadliest, Costliest and Most Intense US TCs, 1851-2006"

With the above adjustments, Bob and Edna both had damage of 3.0 billion in 2005 dollars. Both hurricanes impacted a high-population corridor of southeast New England, and Bob and had a storm surge of 10-14 feet in Buzzards Bay. Edna also caused nearly as much damage as Juan in Nova Scotia. Thus I believe retirement is justified in both cases.

I agree that Isidore should both not have been retired. Lili is borderline, but can easily be justified given the severe damage it did to the bayous of southern Louisiana and to oil/gas infrastructure, along with its 12 foot storm surge.

Lenny is borderline, but I vote for retirement based on its extremely rare distinctions of a November landfalling hurricane in the eastern Caribbean and a Cat 4 in late November (The only other hurricane I could find that reached Cat 4 after Nov 15 was in 1912).

I would have retired Juan, because it was the most damaging storm in Nova Scotia in the past 100 years. Juan was far more damaging than Noel in the Canadian Maritimes, and don't believe Noel should have been retired. Retirement criteria is not based strictly on the dollar amount of damage, but also the relative impact of hurricanes in a given area.

[Chacor]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Bob

Based on Bob only killing 10 people directly, also for the fact that it caused, Damage $1.5 billion (1991 USD)(The top says 2.8 billion, weird) . That is currently how much Wiki shows for Dolly, so if this is retired then Dolly is going to be retired. In within a age of storms that can cause tens of billions in damaged, I feel that this should of not been retired.

I'm sorry for all the people that got hit with Lili, but I also believe it should of not been retired. It killed 13 people and caused less then a billlion dollars(822 million at the time).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Lili

Now islandiers don't get mad at me, but I believe Lanny 99 should of never got retired. 17 dead and 330 million dollars don't cut retiring him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Lenny


Isidore should of never also been retired...4 deaths and 970 million in damage...No way should it of been.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Isidore

Canada don't get angry at me, but Juan 2003 don't cut it. Only 4 deaths and 150 million in damage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Juan

Edna, I don't know what to say about you, but 20 deaths and 40 million don't have retirement cred. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Edna

Deaths and destruction are not the only criteria in retirement, Matt. Sensitivities come into play and Juan was rightly retired for being the first (and to date only) storm to make landfall on Canada as a tropical hurricane.

[Cleveland Kent Evans]

I don't think that retirement should be based solely on absolute numbers of deaths and money damages. I think that the relative impact of both of those within the areas affected should be an important consideration.

I am surprised that those of you who think storms like Bob and Isidore should not have been retired haven't mentioned Fabian yet. Fabian "only" caused 8 deaths and $330 million worth of damage in 2003. Yet it was both the strongest hurricane to hit Bermuda since 1926, and the first hurricane to cause any deaths on that island since 1926. As such I think it was perfectly reasonable for the Bermuda government to request Fabian's retirement. Any storm which is going to be so important in a particular nation's history, even if it's a very small nation, should be retired, IMHO. I think that even if Ike had only affected Turks & Caicos like it did, it should be retired because of its huge and unusual impact on that small country.

And for those of you complaining because France asked for Klaus to be retired when it "only" caused seven deaths and 1500 homeless in Martinique -- that's the % equivalent of 5,270 deaths and 1,128,750 homeless in the USA. So I think the people of Martinique are justified in wanting to see that name retired.

[Derek Ortt]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Bob

Based on Bob only killing 10 people directly, also for the fact that it caused, Damage $1.5 billion (1991 USD)(The top says 2.8 billion, weird) . That is currently how much Wiki shows for Dolly, so if this is retired then Dolly is going to be retired. In within a age of storms that can cause tens of billions in damaged, I feel that this should of not been retired.

I'm sorry for all the people that got hit with Lili, but I also believe it should of not been retired. It killed 13 people and caused less then a billlion dollars(822 million at the time).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Lili

Now islandiers don't get mad at me, but I believe Lanny 99 should of never got retired. 17 dead and 330 million dollars don't cut retiring him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Lenny


Isidore should of never also been retired...4 deaths and 970 million in damage...No way should it of been.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Isidore

Canada don't get angry at me, but Juan 2003 don't cut it. Only 4 deaths and 150 million in damage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Juan

Edna, I don't know what to say about you, but 20 deaths and 40 million don't have retirement cred. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Edna

Matt, you do understand the very simple economic concept of inflation, don't you? if not, I suggest you learn about it so damage figures from the past can be put in context

[Derek Ortt]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Bob

Based on Bob only killing 10 people directly, also for the fact that it caused, Damage $1.5 billion (1991 USD)(The top says 2.8 billion, weird) . That is currently how much Wiki shows for Dolly, so if this is retired then Dolly is going to be retired. In within a age of storms that can cause tens of billions in damaged, I feel that this should of not been retired.

I'm sorry for all the people that got hit with Lili, but I also believe it should of not been retired. It killed 13 people and caused less then a billlion dollars(822 million at the time).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Lili

Now islandiers don't get mad at me, but I believe Lanny 99 should of never got retired. 17 dead and 330 million dollars don't cut retiring him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Lenny


Isidore should of never also been retired...4 deaths and 970 million in damage...No way should it of been.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Isidore

Canada don't get angry at me, but Juan 2003 don't cut it. Only 4 deaths and 150 million in damage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Juan

Edna, I don't know what to say about you, but 20 deaths and 40 million don't have retirement cred. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Edna

one other thing, the Lenny and Lili figures are US DAMAGE ONLY!

Lili caused significant damage in Ciba and Lenny sat over St Martin for about 12 hours as a major

[Derek Ortt]

I believe Mexico requested retirement of Isidore because of the devastation it caused in Merida

[fasterdisaster]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Bob

Based on Bob only killing 10 people directly, also for the fact that it caused, Damage $1.5 billion (1991 USD)(The top says 2.8 billion, weird) . That is currently how much Wiki shows for Dolly, so if this is retired then Dolly is going to be retired. In within a age of storms that can cause tens of billions in damaged, I feel that this should of not been retired.

I'm sorry for all the people that got hit with Lili, but I also believe it should of not been retired. It killed 13 people and caused less then a billlion dollars(822 million at the time).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Lili

Now islandiers don't get mad at me, but I believe Lanny 99 should of never got retired. 17 dead and 330 million dollars don't cut retiring him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Lenny


Isidore should of never also been retired...4 deaths and 970 million in damage...No way should it of been.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Isidore

Canada don't get angry at me, but Juan 2003 don't cut it. Only 4 deaths and 150 million in damage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Juan

Edna, I don't know what to say about you, but 20 deaths and 40 million don't have retirement cred. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Edna

1. I think Bob should have been retired, as not only does that not account for inflation, but a hurricane causing 2 billion in damage in New England is different than causing 2 billion in South Texas.

2. I'll agree wih Lili. She only made landfall as a Category 2 anywhere. Basically if Lili was retired then something like Dolly should be too

3. Lenny easily deserved retirement. He lingered for quite a while over the Virgin Islands with 155 mph winds, and 330 million (probably 500M+ today) is HUGE for hitting PR and the VI.

4. I somewhat agree but I can see grounds for retirement as well, however I TOTALLY agree that if Isidore was retired Emily should have been 3 times over.

5. That Juan was borderline, he did hit at only 100 mph but it was Nova Scotia so it was pretty significant. (although I've heard from Nova Scotians themselves it wasn't such a big deal, so you might be right)

6. Edna had a large wind radii, and she caused flooding across the entire northeast. She was also probably Maine's worst hurricane.

[Ad Novoxium]

Non-retirements:
Hilda in 1955: 300+ Deaths and $120 million period damage.
Carrie in 1957: 80 deaths from a shipwreck.
Alma in 1966: 90 deaths and $210 million period damage. June major hurricane.
Francelia in 1969: 100 deaths. Low damage ($4.7 million)
Dorothy in 1970: 51 deaths according to some sources.
Edith in 1971: 37 deaths and $25.4 million period damage. Category 5 landfall.
Belle in 1976: 5 deaths and $100 million period damage.
Claudette in 1979: 2 deaths, but $400 million period damage.
Beryl in 1982: 115 deaths in Cape Verde.
Klaus in 1984: 2 deaths, but $152 million period damage.
Isabel in 1985: 180 deaths and $459 million period damage!
Juan in 1985: 24 deaths and $1.5 billion period damage.
Kate in 1985: 15 deaths and $700 million period damage. November major hurricane.
Allison in 1989: 11 deaths and $560 million period damage.
Chantal in 1989: 13 deaths and $100 million period damage.
Marco in 1990: Merged with Klaus to cause decent damage. Should have been tossed out with Klaus.
Bret in 1993: 184 deaths.
Gert in 1993: 76 deaths and $166 million period damage.
Alberto in 1994: 30 deaths and $531 million period damage.
Gordon in 1994: Need I say anything?
Erin in 1995: 13 total deaths and $700 million period damage.
Bertha in 1996: 12 deaths and $270 million period damage.
Lili in 1996: 10 deaths, but $660 million period damage in a wide swath of area.
Bonnie in 1998: 3 deaths, but $720 million period damage.
Frances in 1998: 2 total deaths, but $500 million period damage.
Irene in 1999: 18 total deaths, and $800 million period damage.
Leslie in 2000: The precursor caused $950 million period damage.
Gabrielle in 2001: 3 total deaths, but $230 million period damage.
Cindy in 2005: 3 total deaths, but $320 million period damage.
Emily in 2005: Need I say anything?
Ernesto in 2006: 11 total deaths and $500 million period damage.

[Category 5]

Klaus being retired and Emily not being is laughable IMO, unless Klaus did something I'm not remembering.