MED: (Sub)Tropical like cyclone in the Mediterranean Sea §

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MED: (Sub)Tropical like cyclone in the Mediterranean Sea §

#1 Postby DanieleItalyRm » Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:39 pm

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Re: MED: (Sub)Tropical like cyclone in the Mediterranean Sea §

#2 Postby DanieleItalyRm » Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:40 pm

It's like a tropical cyclone! It has a warm core! closed circulation, convection in the center:

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Re: MED: (Sub)Tropical like cyclone in the Mediterranean Sea §

#3 Postby DanieleItalyRm » Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:54 pm

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Re: MED: (Sub)Tropical like cyclone in the Mediterranean Sea §

#4 Postby DanieleItalyRm » Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:23 pm

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Re: MED: (Sub)Tropical like cyclone in the Mediterranean Sea §

#5 Postby DanieleItalyRm » Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:39 pm

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Re: MED: (Sub)Tropical like cyclone in the Mediterranean Sea §

#6 Postby DanieleItalyRm » Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:11 am

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Re: MED: (Sub)Tropical like cyclone in the Mediterranean Sea §

#7 Postby DanieleItalyRm » Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:20 am

Today continue the convection over remainent of circulation of this storm (many floods over Sicily):

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Re: MED: (Sub)Tropical like cyclone in the Mediterranean Sea §

#8 Postby DanieleItalyRm » Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:59 pm

Yesterday:

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Re: MED: (Sub)Tropical like cyclone in the Mediterranean Sea §

#9 Postby AJC3 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:11 pm

Nice find. The Med Sea and the Mozambique Channel seem to be climo-preferred areas for midget TC's to form.
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Re: MED: (Sub)Tropical like cyclone in the Mediterranean Sea §

#10 Postby KWT » Thu Nov 04, 2010 6:52 am

I think witohut a doubt that probably was a borderline tropical cyclone, the seas are not really warm enough anymore to support them but I think they are probably not all that different to the likes of Vince and Grace in that they form thanks to colder upper air conditions as well as the SSTs and the colder air makes up the difference to lower SSTs due to keeping up the lapse rate.

I'd love it one day if some weather organisation could find some funding and actually do a few recon missions into the heart of these small systems just to see what is actually going on...
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Re: MED: (Sub)Tropical like cyclone in the Mediterranean Sea §

#11 Postby neospaceblue » Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:10 pm

I wish the National Hurricane Center or Indian Meterological Department would start monitoring the Mediterranean so we could have some more information when stuff like this happens.
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Re: MED: (Sub)Tropical like cyclone in the Mediterranean Sea §

#12 Postby DanieleItalyRm » Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:46 am

Many thanks for attention.

I'm convinced that the Mediterranean Tropical Cyclone is equal Karl'80, Vince'05 or Grace'05. Not be a doubt.
Many Mediterranean tropical like Cyclones occurred over sea surface (18-27°C) most warm Karl'80, Vince'05 or Grace'05 (24-17°C).
They can be intensity of tropical depression, tropical storm or hurricane (very rare), but they cause flooding, damage and fatalities.
It obvious that these small tropical cyclones they are occurred for tropical transition. (K.Emanuel: cutoff cold low is an ideal embryo in which a Mediterranean tropical cyclone can be produced).
''Tropical transition refers to the dynamic and thermodynamic transformation of disturbances of sub-tropical or extratropical origin into tropical cyclones.
This is often synonymous with a transition from a cold-core cyclone to a warm-core cyclone ''.

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Re: MED: (Sub)Tropical like cyclone in the Mediterranean Sea §

#13 Postby somethingfunny » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:15 am

neospaceblue wrote:I wish the National Hurricane Center or Indian Meterological Department would start monitoring the Mediterranean so we could have some more information when stuff like this happens.


I think if one of these systems ever gained enough strength to bring a hurricane-force landfall and all the associated wind damage, then you might see more interest from the European Meteorological communities... not until then though.

Then again the Brazilians still don't think they can be hit by hurricanes so who knows
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Re: MED: (Sub)Tropical like cyclone in the Mediterranean Sea §

#14 Postby KWT » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:18 am

The thing is these storms have sometimes hit land and caused some impressive wind/rain reports, I know the 1995 system had 975mbs and 85mph winds for example when a ship went through it.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e ... lone_2.jpg

Even if it wasn't a true hurricane no doubts it had a structure nearly identical and winds of equal strength to your typically Atlantic hurricane...so IMO there probably is no real difference between some of the small NE Atlantic storms that form in Autumn and the med systems...
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Re: MED: (Sub)Tropical like cyclone in the Mediterranean Sea §

#15 Postby DanieleItalyRm » Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:50 am

September 1983 hurricane produced 104 km/h wind over Cagliari (Sardinia) but it strength the next day over balearic sea (26°C sea surface). Probably the wind exceded 110 km/h.
October 1996 hurricane in the center thyrrenian sea produced 145 km/h wind, many damages, floods and 3 deads over Eolian Islands(23-24°C sea surface, like Vince).
January 1995 hurricane have 975 hpa and 140 km/h wind (German ship METEOR). It moved over 17-18°C sea surface (Grace moved over 20-17°C sea surface). These Mediterranean tropical cyclones be equal Karl November' 80, Vince October '05, Grace October '09 and many others. The Mediterranean sea it's only a short part of the Atlantic Ocean.

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Re: MED: (Sub)Tropical like cyclone in the Mediterranean Sea §

#16 Postby KWT » Sat Nov 06, 2010 6:33 am

Yeah when you look at those systems like that you can easily see the similarities, esp the Sep/October systems, they aren't gonna be polar lows and the Oct 1996 system has clearly got a very defined structure like the Jan 1995 system so I'd be pretty confident that one was a TC.
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Re: MED: (Sub)Tropical like cyclone in the Mediterranean Sea §

#17 Postby HURAKAN » Sat Nov 06, 2010 6:39 am

The comparison is very compelling. I just wish there was some research done into this and maybe France could become the governing body for the Mediterranean since they have experience from La Reunion. I don't think the NHC should take over the Mediterranean.
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Re: MED: (Sub)Tropical like cyclone in the Mediterranean Sea §

#18 Postby neospaceblue » Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:00 pm

My opinion: we should make a separate name list for when tropical cyclones form outside of normal basins such as the Mediterranean Sea or in the Southern Atlantic because these systems are becoming more common.
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Re: MED: (Sub)Tropical like cyclone in the Mediterranean Sea §

#19 Postby pepeavilenho » Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:38 pm

neospaceblue wrote:My opinion: we should make a separate name list for when tropical cyclones form outside of normal basins such as the Mediterranean Sea or in the Southern Atlantic because these systems are becoming more common.


Yes, I thought to give 5 vowel names per year.

We would have a list like this:

Adrianna-Ernesto-Indhira-Oscar-Ursula

:lol:
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Re: MED: (Sub)Tropical like cyclone in the Mediterranean Sea §

#20 Postby HurricaneBill » Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:11 pm

Another storm similar to the Mediterranean storms was the 1991 unnamed hurricane that formed in the Perfect Storm.

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