2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#441 Postby Portastorm » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:59 pm

tarheelprogrammer wrote:
Hammy wrote:
tarheelprogrammer wrote:Models are all trending away from a system in the G.O.M. It could just be a very quiet June. As the ECMWF washes out the wave it was developing. ECMWF showing high pressures across the Atlantic in the long range as well.


This tells me we're basically flying blind like we were the last few seasons--the models just seem worse and worse with the phantom storms every update.


Agree with you 100%. However, the fact that the models all seem to agree on a set up with 5 or 6 days, and then change it so drastically run to run is not a good sign. They do pick up on areas of concern, but they still lack the ability to tell you the direct path a storm will take at that time frame. However, a BOC coastal hugger is most likely the scenario that will pan out. It has happened a lot more frequently in recent years if I am remembering correctly. Even though conditions seem good in the long range for some reason the models are washing out the waves even when they get to the western part of the basin. It is early in the year though, and even though I do believe June stays quiet that doesn't mean the season will be quiet. :wink:


While the operational runs for both the GFS and Euro have spun up various low centers and sent them sprawling around the BOC and Gulf, the general pattern of a large, gyre-like area of lowering pressures around the Yucatan has been consistently shown for days by both models (the operational and ensembles). That hasn't changed. At all. As srainhoutx so aptly wrote, these large gyre-like areas are slow to develop (IF they develop) and models frequently struggle this far out (timewise) with identifying actual centers of low pressure which may develop into something more.

I would caution against any assumptions at this point.
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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#442 Postby tarheelprogrammer » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:04 pm

Portastorm wrote:
tarheelprogrammer wrote:
Hammy wrote:
This tells me we're basically flying blind like we were the last few seasons--the models just seem worse and worse with the phantom storms every update.


Agree with you 100%. However, the fact that the models all seem to agree on a set up with 5 or 6 days, and then change it so drastically run to run is not a good sign. They do pick up on areas of concern, but they still lack the ability to tell you the direct path a storm will take at that time frame. However, a BOC coastal hugger is most likely the scenario that will pan out. It has happened a lot more frequently in recent years if I am remembering correctly. Even though conditions seem good in the long range for some reason the models are washing out the waves even when they get to the western part of the basin. It is early in the year though, and even though I do believe June stays quiet that doesn't mean the season will be quiet. :wink:


While the operational runs for both the GFS and Euro have spun up various low centers and sent them sprawling around the BOC and Gulf, the general pattern of a large, gyre-like area of lowering pressures around the Yucatan has been consistently shown for days by both models (the operational and ensembles). That hasn't changed. At all. As srainhoutx so aptly wrote, these large gyre-like areas are slow to develop (IF they develop) and models frequently struggle this far out (timewise) with identifying actual centers of low pressure which may develop into something more.

I would caution against any assumptions at this point.


You do make a great point, and my opinion is likely to be wrong I am sure :D. We shall see though.
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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#443 Postby Agua » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:13 pm

Is "gyre" our new trendy word for this season?
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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#444 Postby RL3AO » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:16 pm

Agua wrote:Is "gyre" our new trendy word for this season?

Sure. Why not. If it is our word of the season, I'd point people to a recent paper about them from a very smart guy at U Albany.
http://www.atmos.albany.edu/student/ppapin/papers/Papin_et_al_2017.pdf
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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#445 Postby gatorcane » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:24 pm

The 12Z ECMWF is back to showing the closed low traversing the MDR between the Lesser Antilles and Africa, pretty impressive for this time of year if it verifies:

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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#446 Postby Alyono » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:23 pm

Have you seen the very large upper ridge in the Gulf in the models?

If anything gets over the open Gulf, this could be a rapid intensification scenario, similar to Alex from 2010
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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#447 Postby weathaguyry » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:37 pm

Alyono wrote:Have you seen the very large upper ridge in the Gulf in the models?

If anything gets over the open Gulf, this could be a rapid intensification scenario, similar to Alex from 2010


I agree, especially if it stays south towards the BOC, where the water is nice and toasty
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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#448 Postby Alyono » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:35 pm

weathaguyry wrote:
Alyono wrote:Have you seen the very large upper ridge in the Gulf in the models?

If anything gets over the open Gulf, this could be a rapid intensification scenario, similar to Alex from 2010


I agree, especially if it stays south towards the BOC, where the water is nice and toasty


more favorable farther north in the Gulf. May be most favorable near Tampico
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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#449 Postby cycloneye » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:39 pm

18z GFS is BOC again.

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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#450 Postby TheStormExpert » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:42 pm

Alyono wrote:Have you seen the very large upper ridge in the Gulf in the models?

If anything gets over the open Gulf, this could be a rapid intensification scenario, similar to Alex from 2010

Of course with that kind of ridging can anything get north of the Bay of Campeche.
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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#451 Postby Ptarmigan » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:53 pm

South Texas Storms wrote:I'm tending to think we could see a system like Alex from 2010 with this disturbance. However, confidence remains quite low as this is still about a week away from possibly developing.


Hurricane Alex was quite a large and rainy hurricane. It was almost a Category 3 hurricane.
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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#452 Postby Hammy » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:14 am

Weaker and weaker with each model run. In all likelihood this is going to develop in the Pacific as most June model storms do.
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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#453 Postby Kingarabian » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:50 am

Hammy wrote:Weaker and weaker with each model run. In all likelihood this is going to develop in the Pacific as most June model storms do.


That could happen but I don't think there's going to be enough ridging to push it in the EPAC long enough that it develops. I think the most likely scenario is that it sits over CA before moving inland over southern Mexico.
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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#454 Postby Kingarabian » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:29 am

00z Euro with a weaker ridge, stronger system and has it further east @ 144 hours...

High builds back in and pushes it into Mexico @ hr 216.
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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#455 Postby AutoPenalti » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:20 am

Kingarabian wrote:00z Euro with a weaker ridge, stronger system and has it further east @ 144 hours...

High builds back in and pushes it into Mexico @ hr 216.

What a weird set up.

Then again, we are seeing guidance models on a system that hasn't even develop yet.
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Model Runs Cheat Sheet:
GFS (5:30 AM/PM, 11:30 AM/PM)
HWRF, GFDL, UKMET, NAVGEM (6:30-8:00 AM/PM, 12:30-2:00 AM/PM)
ECMWF (1:45 AM/PM)

TCVN
is a weighted averaged

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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#456 Postby cycloneye » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:24 am

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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#457 Postby cycloneye » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:59 am

Both GFS and ECMWF have the wave with low pressure east of the southern Windward Islands moving thru those islands but weakening in Eastern Caribbean.
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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#458 Postby NDG » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:03 am

:uarrow: Maybe a sign of what's to come later on the season.

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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#459 Postby cycloneye » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:06 am

We have a thread for the Western Caribbean possible development so all runs of the models will be posted over there.

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=118764&p=2582310#p2582310
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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#460 Postby cycloneye » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:09 am

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