My Forecast for the 2017 Hurricane Season

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wxman57
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Re: My forecast for the 2017 hurricane season

#21 Postby wxman57 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:45 pm

WeatherEmperor wrote:
wxman57 wrote:I was discussing the season with Phil Klotzbach this morning. The El Nino forecast is interesting (new ECMWF). He went with a 60% chance of an above normal season in his December outlook, not believing the early forecasts of El Nino. However, the January forecast is even more bullish on at least a weak El Nino for 2017. Along with that, the ECMWF is forecasting increasing surface pressure and below-normal rainfall across the deep tropics through July. Those signals point to a below-normal season.


What is the model (EURO) skill level so early in the year (January) for predicting Enso events for Aug/Sept/Oct?


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Re: My forecast for the 2017 hurricane season

#22 Postby wxman57 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:52 pm

Below are the last 5 years of January ECMWF forecasts of Nino 3.4 temps. The blue dotted line is what actually happened. Not much consistency, but not always bad.

2012:
Image

2013:
Image

2014:
Image

2015:
Image

2016:
Image
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Re: My forecast for the 2017 hurricane season

#23 Postby 1900hurricane » Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:21 pm

Speaking of Dr. Klotzbach, here's a Tweet he sent out not too long ago.

 https://twitter.com/philklotzbach/status/818548394402553856


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Re: My forecast for the 2017 hurricane season

#24 Postby cycloneye » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:12 pm

As Levi said,Is still early but already there are some signals out there pointing to a not so active Atlantic 2017 season.We will wait and see.

 https://twitter.com/TropicalTidbits/status/820329738992578561




 https://twitter.com/TropicalTidbits/status/820330149967265794


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Re: My forecast for the 2017 hurricane season

#25 Postby wxman57 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:06 pm

Levi's analogs consider only the current SST anomalies. They do not take into account any atmospheric patterns or future changes in water temperatures. However, I do agree that early indications are that this season will be closer to normal than 2016. Maybe 11-13 named storms, 4-6 hurricanes, and 2-3 majors. Possibly fewer storms than that. The hostile environment that has dominated the deep tropics may continue in 2017.
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Re: My Forecast for the 2017 Hurricane Season

#26 Postby Ntxw » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:17 pm

Its far too early to be betting on El Nino, spring barrier is not on our side. Best guess is we move to warm neutral by late spring. What happens after is dependent on what happens in the Pacific in April and May.
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Re: My Forecast for the 2017 Hurricane Season

#27 Postby wxman57 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:34 pm

Ntxw wrote:Its far too early to be betting on El Nino, spring barrier is not on our side. Best guess is we move to warm neutral by late spring. What happens after is dependent on what happens in the Pacific in April and May.


I can say with confidence that there will be no official El Nino during peak season, as that requires a 5-month period of SST anomalies above +.5C. However, SSTs may be in the warm-neutral area for ASO. Studies indicate such temps would have little impact on activity. It takes a stronger El Nino to have much impact.
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Re: My Forecast for the 2017 Hurricane Season

#28 Postby Andrew92 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:01 pm

One thing for certain, 2017 is the second year after a very powerful El Nino, so I am still concerned about what the hurricane season might have. Still years that fall in this category are most usually very strong La Nina years, but as wxman57 just said, and some models are saying, the Pacific does not look like it will produce that kind of event this year. I think a warm neutral is quite plausible, but another El Nino seems crazy unless it is a Modoki. This sort of thing actually took place in 1979 and 2004, as both years were in that category of the second year after a traditional El Nino, but had Modoki events themselves.

However, very few other years are able to provide much in the way of clues. 1980 - which was the first year after the 1979 Modoki, just as dangerous as a second year after a traditional - had some equatorial warming but it was weak and La Nina seemed to rule the roost that year. That year was, of course, the year Allen terrorized the Caribbean before hitting South Texas. But what some people may not realize is that there was actually warming already beginning the equatorial EPAC during the hurricane season of 2008. However, it was not enough to stop Gustav and Ike from causing the terrors they they did in Haiti, Cuba, and the Gulf.

Or maybe 2003 is worth a look. The EPAC, except for a small cold area at the equatorial immediately off South America, was on the warmish side, but not enough to be an El Nino. The MDR produce two big ones in Fabian and Isabel, the latter reaching the East Coast. And some say that 2002 was more Modoki than traditional, though the tropical Atlantic had plenty of struggles that year for a Modoki. That said, there was a September spike in activity in 2002, which can easily happen in Modoki years. (It did happen near the peak in 1979 and in August 2004.)

My top analogs for this year so far? Probably 1979, 1980, 2003, and 2008. I am not ready to call a season quite like 2004 because it was so intense with all the Florida hits, but the type of season 2004 was puts that year maybe in the ballpark. An abbreviated season, but with heavy activity at about the peak with a couple doozies would not surprise me though in the least, like the first two analogs and even 2004. The other two were more sustained overall, but the strongest still were generally near the peak in 2003 and 2008 as well, and activity in other periods - particularly 2003, minus Claudette - was not as spectacular. 2008 still did give us Omar and Paloma later though, while the other three plus 2004 were fairly quiet.

-Andrew92
Last edited by Andrew92 on Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My Forecast for the 2017 Hurricane Season

#29 Postby Ntxw » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:36 pm

wxman57 wrote:
Ntxw wrote:Its far too early to be betting on El Nino, spring barrier is not on our side. Best guess is we move to warm neutral by late spring. What happens after is dependent on what happens in the Pacific in April and May.


I can say with confidence that there will be no official El Nino during peak season, as that requires a 5-month period of SST anomalies above +.5C. However, SSTs may be in the warm-neutral area for ASO. Studies indicate such temps would have little impact on activity. It takes a stronger El Nino to have much impact.


It's possible if you started seeing +0.5C or greater by May. The 5 trimonthly period is a hindsight call, meaning it is declared after it has occured. If there was an El Nino ASO it very well could start in August but not declared until winter DJF for 5 trimonthlies. That's not to say there will be, I think the odds of a Nino are still quite low and if there was one it will likely be very weak. But conditions in the oceans could reverse the next few months and La Nina returns..too much uncertainty right now. The needle is just pointed more towards warming neutral.
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Re: My Forecast for the 2017 Hurricane Season

#30 Postby Ntxw » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:38 pm

Andrew92 wrote:My top analogs for this year so far? Probably 1979, 1980, 2003, and 2008. I am not ready to call a season quite like 2004 because it was so intense with all the Florida hits, but the type of season 2004 was puts that year maybe in the ballpark. An abbreviated season, but with heavy activity at about the peak with a couple doozies would not surprise me though in the least, like the first two analogs and even 2004. The other two were more sustained overall, but the strongest still were generally near the peak in 2003 and 2008 as well, and activity in other periods - particularly 2003, minus Claudette - was not as spectacular. 2008 still did give us Omar and Paloma later though, while the other three plus 2004 were fairly quiet.

-Andrew92


1979-1980 and 2003-2004 were +PDO eras much like what we are seeing now.
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Re: My Forecast for the 2017 Hurricane Season

#31 Postby cycloneye » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:31 am

Will the GOM remain warm the rest of the year?

 https://twitter.com/MichaelRLowry/status/824826196705808384


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Re: My Forecast for the 2017 Hurricane Season

#32 Postby Hurricaneman » Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:26 pm

In my february update I will put some possible analog years
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Re: My Forecast for the 2017 Hurricane Season

#33 Postby cycloneye » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:25 am

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Re: My Forecast for the 2017 Hurricane Season

#34 Postby Alyono » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:33 am

That may not be the MOST unfavorable as the main upward motion is over the CPAC

unless I am misreading the graphic and have a sign error
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Re: My Forecast for the 2017 Hurricane Season

#35 Postby gatorcane » Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:42 pm

Also seems what really happens is the opposite of what the long-range CFS thinks. What does the long-range ECMWF show?
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Re: My Forecast for the 2017 Hurricane Season

#36 Postby Kingarabian » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:30 pm

gatorcane wrote:Also seems what really happens is the opposite of what the long-range CFS thinks. What does the long-range ECMWF show?


Long range Euro actually is much more El-Nino bullish than the CFS.

But the Euro generally has a warm bias - especially at this time of the year.
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Re: My Forecast for the 2017 Hurricane Season

#37 Postby TheStormExpert » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:19 pm

This has to be some sort of record quick turnaround from a record Super El Niño to very brief La Niña back to potentially another El Niño later this year! :eek:

Still WAY TOO SOON to be making any real suggestions as just last month many including Phil K. @ Colorado State were calling for an even more active 2017 season. I'll just sit back and watch things evolve until at least mid-April.
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Re: My Forecast for the 2017 Hurricane Season

#38 Postby SFLcane » Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:17 pm

Alyono wrote:That may not be the MOST unfavorable as the main upward motion is over the CPAC

unless I am misreading the graphic and have a sign error


Who cares about the cpac or epac.. :ggreen:
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Re: My Forecast for the 2017 Hurricane Season

#39 Postby 1900hurricane » Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:27 pm

:uarrow: Me.
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Re: My Forecast for the 2017 Hurricane Season

#40 Postby Digital-TC-Chaser » Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:12 pm

TheStormExpert wrote:This has to be some sort of record quick turnaround from a record Super El Niño to very brief La Niña back to potentially another El Niño later this year! :eek:

Still WAY TOO SOON to be making any real suggestions as just last month many including Phil K. @ Colorado State were calling for an even more active 2017 season. I'll just sit back and watch things evolve until at least mid-April.

Agree with this sensible post. :uarrow:



As was pointed out by WXMAN57 earlier on the thread.
wxman57 wrote:
See this discussion of how Pacific SST anomalies are being modified to indicate warmer conditions there (La Nina) when it appears that neutral conditions prevail:

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/12/05/ ... a-and-bom/
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