2018 Tropics: Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

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Re: 2018 Tropics: Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#1901 Postby KWT » Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:10 am

Frank2 wrote:Per the GFS STRONG westerlies are forecast to drop southward in the next 10 days with a rapid progression of strong high pressure systems from Canada - just a guess but with snow already just north of the border (snowing in Alberta yesterday), the season is almost at an end:

https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysi ... 506&fh=360


The same GFS with the well known bias for overdoing troughing and digging cold shots too far south?

Regardless of that we are now entering the danger time period for S Florida in pure climo, though it is good to see that shear holding in place...that IMO is more likely to save the USA than over blown troughing from the over progressive GFS..
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Re: 2018 Tropics: Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#1902 Postby boca » Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:10 am

I guessing that if we see anything else form this year it will be in the subtropics it seems like the least hostile area.
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Re: 2018 Tropics: Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#1903 Postby MetroMike » Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:15 am

boca wrote:I guessing that if we see anything else form this year it will be in the subtropics it seems like the least hostile area.


GFS continues to see the big mama dancing system in the Mid Atl, very strange pattern.
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Re: 2018 Tropics: Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#1904 Postby chaser1 » Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:14 pm

KWT wrote:
Frank2 wrote:Per the GFS STRONG westerlies are forecast to drop southward in the next 10 days with a rapid progression of strong high pressure systems from Canada - just a guess but with snow already just north of the border (snowing in Alberta yesterday), the season is almost at an end:

https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysi ... 506&fh=360


The same GFS with the well known bias for overdoing troughing and digging cold shots too far south?

Regardless of that we are now entering the danger time period for S Florida in pure climo, though it is good to see that shear holding in place...that IMO is more likely to save the USA than over blown troughing from the over progressive GFS..


The GFS has been advertising the lowering of the westerlies and attendant large strong surface highs to march eastward across the N. CONUS for a few days now. Par for the course - it's nearly October. As for the screaming upper level conditions through the Gulf and Caribbean, those conditions won't necessarily change on a dime.... so sure, that's a good thing. Having said that however, these hostile upper level conditions are NOT a result of a larger global El Nino split jet pattern but as I see it more of a result of our recent summer pattern anomalous mid level ridging across the W. Atlantic and E. Conus and accompanying recent/present high latitude zonal pattern across much of the U.S. during recent months. I'm simply implying that I think that our present Conus mid-latitude flow under that zonal regime has partially contributed to a deep layer "top down" high pressure area to largely park over Texas causing the upper flow to drop southward and then across much of the Gulf and Caribbean like a TUTT like feature. My point is that I believe with the dropping westerlies, will also evolve how/where the near term long wave pattern is apt to set up. Whether this simply implies a lower latitude progressive short wave pattern, or greater troughing to set up along the E. Conus Seaboard, over the Midwest, or Western U.S. I don't know. What I believe though is that seasonal pattern changes over the CONUS will begin to occur and only then (about a week/10 days?) will we be able to better assess if and how those changes/wrinkles in both steering and upper level flow might impact W. Atlantic regions. Regardless, I don't see the above impacting additional tropical cyclones from developing.... but simply impacting "where" they develop (BOC vs. E. GOM, extreme S.W. Caribbean vs. N.W. Caribbean, or near the N.E. Caribbean to points north for hundreds of miles etc). Track, strength, and storm lifespan will then certainly be dictated if present strong upper level conditions remain unchanged or if evolving long wave changes cause "game board checker pieces" (conducive upper level anticyclonic flow or hostile upper level shear) to shift.

Judging from the type of season we've seen thus far and considering data recently presented or quoted by others, i'd guess that:
1) we're at least 2-4 new storms away from the end of the season
2) Even Kirk aided by a photon torpedo won't break through the current "shear (upper level winds) wall of terror"
3) Fast forward 8-14 days to see where the first significant fronts begin to drop; cue to building upper level heights and a relaxing flow over the E. Gom/W. Caribbean to occur IF we see strong negatively tilted cold fronts digging south further west such as around the Central Plains and West of the Mississippi. On the other hand, I think a primarily continued zonal pattern across the West/Central U.S. with fronts beginning to drop southward near the Eastern Great Lakes to U.S. E. Seaboard may suggest some continued hostile upper level conditions extending southward (at least into the Northern & Central Gulf). If I were a betting man, i'd guess the greatest threat of a significant end-of-season hurricane exists for either Central America or Eastern Cuba from mid to late October.
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Re: 2018 Tropics: Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#1905 Postby psyclone » Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:26 pm

KWT wrote:
Frank2 wrote:Per the GFS STRONG westerlies are forecast to drop southward in the next 10 days with a rapid progression of strong high pressure systems from Canada - just a guess but with snow already just north of the border (snowing in Alberta yesterday), the season is almost at an end:

https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysi ... 506&fh=360


The same GFS with the well known bias for overdoing troughing and digging cold shots too far south?

Regardless of that we are now entering the danger time period for S Florida in pure climo, though it is good to see that shear holding in place...that IMO is more likely to save the USA than over blown troughing from the over progressive GFS..


I think you're spot on here. The GFS is often BS when it comes to this...it's a known bias. Exhibit A would be the CPC extended outlooks which were showing a big dump of below normal anomalies in the eastern 2/3 of the US (sans the far southeast) have since backed way off such a solution and now keep the Fall chill confined to the north. To the extent late season activity may be disrupted it doesn't appear it will be a result of anomalously early mid latitude weather diving into low latitude regions early. That's wishful thinking that appears destined not to happen...which means if you're in Florida and you're hoping for some normal to below normal temps anytime soon...so soup for you! Considering October is the highest risk month of the year for south florida...declaring season over a week before the highest risk month begins is a tad (a lot) premature. Secondary peak is still a month out. we've got a ways to go.
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Re: 2018 Tropics: Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#1906 Postby toad strangler » Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:56 pm

18z GFS injects Captain Kirks remains into the deep SW Caribbean where it brews for a spell before starting to lift N at the end of the run.
Just a play by play... we’ve seen this climo movie before on the GFS but must be watched because the calendar says so along with what the 12z Euro showed at 240 with lingering voticity as well.
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Re: 2018 Tropics: Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#1907 Postby TheStormExpert » Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:07 pm

One thing I must say is how the GFS shows basically zilch over the next two weeks besides Kirk, Leslie, and that hurricane-force low in the north-central Atlantic. Meanwhile, in the East Pacific it just keeps blowing up storm after storm after storm. Just shows how hostile the Atlantic is.
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Re: 2018 Tropics: Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#1908 Postby MetroMike » Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:58 pm

TheStormExpert wrote:One thing I must say is how the GFS shows basically zilch over the next two weeks besides Kirk, Leslie, and that hurricane-force low in the north-central Atlantic. Meanwhile, in the East Pacific it just keeps blowing up storm after storm after storm. Just shows how hostile the Atlantic is.

Given the normal progression one would think the Pacific would have calmed down by now.
Make me wonder if the Atlantic basin could be in for a later than normal surge of activity such as the Pacific is seeing.
Oh course that would be the areas favored normally in Oct.
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Re: 2018 Tropics: Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#1909 Postby Hammy » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:52 pm

TheStormExpert wrote:One thing I must say is how the GFS shows basically zilch over the next two weeks besides Kirk, Leslie, and that hurricane-force low in the north-central Atlantic. Meanwhile, in the East Pacific it just keeps blowing up storm after storm after storm. Just shows how hostile the Atlantic is.


Don't forget that about a week before we had the last hurricane outbreak, the GFS showed nothing for two weeks (including during that period.)
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Re: 2018 Tropics: Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#1910 Postby Kazmit » Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:55 pm

Super long range but the 12z GFS shows a weak system moving through the Bahamas.

Image
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Re: 2018 Tropics: Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#1911 Postby Steve » Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:13 pm

TheStormExpert wrote:One thing I must say is how the GFS shows basically zilch over the next two weeks besides Kirk, Leslie, and that hurricane-force low in the north-central Atlantic. Meanwhile, in the East Pacific it just keeps blowing up storm after storm after storm. Just shows how hostile the Atlantic is.


It will likely be wrong. The FV3 GFS has a *edit* Isidore 2002 scenario where it gets tied up on the edge of the Yucatan before lifting off to the N/NNE. CMC actually looks like it's got the best handle on the pattern overall. It's much faster with Kirk in the Gulf (10 days-ish rather than end of the 16 day run) and keeps it mostly intact the whole way. I don't think that's necessarily going to happen, but I don't necessarily like it when the CMC is offering more reasonable solutions than the GFS.
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Re: 2018 Tropics: Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#1912 Postby toad strangler » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:41 am

I know we have all seen this movie a million times but the 6z GFS starts showing vorticity in the deep Caribbean as early as 200 hours and ends at 384 with a system lifting N into the GOM
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Re: 2018 Tropics: Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#1913 Postby SFLcane » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:12 am

Gfs has been all about :spam: recently with its Caribbean bias. It’s certainly possible this time of the year down there. This mornings 06z run ends with a potential storm in the nw Caribbean Sea.
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Re: 2018 Tropics: Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#1914 Postby toad strangler » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:34 am

SFLcane wrote:Gfs has been all about :spam: recently with its Caribbean bias. It’s certainly possible this time of the year down there. This mornings 06z run ends with a potential storm in the nw Caribbean Sea.


Test GFS has nothing :lol:
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Re: 2018 Tropics: Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#1915 Postby SoupBone » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:46 am

KWT wrote:
Frank2 wrote:Per the GFS STRONG westerlies are forecast to drop southward in the next 10 days with a rapid progression of strong high pressure systems from Canada - just a guess but with snow already just north of the border (snowing in Alberta yesterday), the season is almost at an end:

https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysi ... 506&fh=360


The same GFS with the well known bias for overdoing troughing and digging cold shots too far south?

Regardless of that we are now entering the danger time period for S Florida in pure climo, though it is good to see that shear holding in place...that IMO is more likely to save the USA than over blown troughing from the over progressive GFS..


It was full blown snowing in Keystone, Colorado yesterday.

 https://twitter.com/KeystoneMtn/status/1044332887405940736


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Re: 2018 Tropics: Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#1916 Postby Hurricaneman » Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:01 am

toad strangler wrote:
SFLcane wrote:Gfs has been all about :spam: recently with its Caribbean bias. It’s certainly possible this time of the year down there. This mornings 06z run ends with a potential storm in the nw Caribbean Sea.


Test GFS has nothing :lol:

Actually has the monsoon trough system move north then back wsw to Florida but in reality it’s going to take several days to know what’s going to happen if at all
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Re: 2018 Tropics: Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#1917 Postby TheStormExpert » Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:45 pm

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Re: 2018 Tropics: Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#1918 Postby LarryWx » Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:14 pm

Unless the 12Z GEPS is on crack with its 40% of members having a H hit, the W coast of FL would have a threat 1st wk in Oct. from something spawned by Kirk's remnants. OTOH, GEFS/EPS runs have very little. So, GEPS being on crack quite possible....I think it has Kirk remnants too strong and too far north.
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Re: 2018 Tropics: Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#1919 Postby Hurricaneman » Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:15 pm

I think it’s too early to guess if or where a tropical system from the monsoon trough will go or if one will form at all
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Re: 2018 Tropics: Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#1920 Postby Hurricaneman » Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:17 pm

The 18zGFS fv3 shows a system forming from the monsoon trough at 252hrs and becoming a hurricane and is north of the Yucatan as a cat 2 hurricane while the operational does nothing
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