What old storms would you retroactively retire from the name lists?

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Hurricane Mike
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What old storms would you retroactively retire from the name lists?

#1 Postby Hurricane Mike » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:48 am

There are some storm names that I feel should have been retired in the past, yet the name remains. I always wondered if maybe some of them should be replaced due to their previous memorable storm damage and then continued usage.

Names I'd retire retroactively:

Hurricane Kate - 1985
A rare, powerful late November hurricane that devastated parts of the Florida Panhandle

Hurricane Gordon - 1994
A late-season hurricane that killed thousands in the Caribbean

Hurricane Bertha - 1996
I remember this storm was heavily hyped and quite memorable for North Carolina. I was always rather surprised to see the name "Bertha" remain.

Hurricane Bonnie - 1998
I also remember tracking this one, very hyped and memorable and destructive for North Carolina, and much more damaging than Bertha. I was surprised Bonnie remained on the list.

Hurricane Emily - 2005
After avoiding seemingly likely retirement in 1987 and then in 1993, it seemed almost certain Emily would be stricken from the list. A rare July Category 5 hurricane that wrecked havoc across the Caribbean and Mexico, I was stunned this storm name remained on the list.

Hurricane Hanna - 2008
This one almost didn't make my list, but the hundreds and hundreds of deaths in Haiti make me think Hanna should have been removed.

So, all in all, in my opinion there were six hurricanes whose names remain on the rotating lists that deserve retirement.
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Re: What old storms would you retroactively retire from the name lists?

#2 Postby HurricaneEnzo » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:48 am

Hurricane Mike wrote:There are some storm names that I feel should have been retired in the past, yet the name remains. I always wondered if maybe some of them should be replaced due to their previous memorable storm damage and then continued usage.

Names I'd retire retroactively:

Hurricane Kate - 1985
A rare, powerful late November hurricane that devastated parts of the Florida Panhandle

Hurricane Gordon - 1994
A late-season hurricane that killed thousands in the Caribbean

Hurricane Bertha - 1996
I remember this storm was heavily hyped and quite memorable for North Carolina. I was always rather surprised to see the name "Bertha" remain.

Hurricane Bonnie - 1998
I also remember tracking this one, very hyped and memorable and destructive for North Carolina, and much more damaging than Bertha. I was surprised Bonnie remained on the list.

Hurricane Emily - 2005
After avoiding seemingly likely retirement in 1987 and then in 1993, it seemed almost certain Emily would be stricken from the list. A rare July Category 5 hurricane that wrecked havoc across the Caribbean and Mexico, I was stunned this storm name remained on the list.

Hurricane Hanna - 2008
This one almost didn't make my list, but the hundreds and hundreds of deaths in Haiti make me think Hanna should have been removed.

So, all in all, in my opinion there were six hurricanes whose names remain on the rotating lists that deserve retirement.



Being from Eastern NC I always wondered about Bertha as well. It seems to have been as impactful as several other storms in the area that have been retired. Only think I can think of is because it was overshawdoed by Fran just a few weeks after it struck.
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Re: What old storms would you retroactively retire from the name lists?

#3 Postby northjaxpro » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:34 pm

Tropical Storm Fay 2008

I have always felt strongly that this cyclone's name should have been retired. It should have been among the Tropical Storm names retired imo.

It had some unique distinctions.

1. It made four different landfalls over the Florida peninsula, the first cyclone to ever to this to my recollection I believe.
2. Caused extensive flooding across North and East Central Florida
3. Formed an eye while crossing through The Everglades. Personally, I think Fay became a hurricane across South Florida inland when this happened. NHC never pulled the trigger to upgrade it.

4. Fay was responsible directly and indirectly for 36 deaths across Florida and through the Caribbean.


There are more, but these stand out the most for me.
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Re: What old storms would you retroactively retire from the name lists?

#4 Postby Hammy » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:34 pm

Though it got retired anyway in 2003, I think Juan should've been retired after 1985.
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Re: What old storms would you retroactively retire from the name lists?

#5 Postby GSBHurricane » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:24 pm

Lee 2011 - Usually I’d say no to storms like Lee but what set it apart is that most of its impact was up North in Pennsylvania and New York.
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Re: What old storms would you retroactively retire from the name lists?

#6 Postby GSBHurricane » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:13 am

Also, Kate 1985. It may have actually done more damage than most of us believe, particularly in Cuba, but much of it was in the sugarcane industry. If I’m correct, it may have done $1.2 billion in Cuba and $1.6 billion total according to NatCat Services and a couple other pieces of literature from the time that I found.
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Re: What old storms would you retroactively retire from the name lists?

#7 Postby BadLarry95 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:10 am

2005- Emily, Delta
2008- Hanna
2010- Alex, Karl
2011- Lee
2012- Isaac
2014- Gonzalo
2016- Earl
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Re: What old storms would you retroactively retire from the name lists?

#8 Postby Hurricaneman » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:24 pm

During the bi gender name era
2018 none
2017: Ophelia
2016 Nicole
2015 no more
2014 Gonzalo
2013 no more
2012 Debby
2011 no more
2010 Earl
2009 no more
2008 no more
2007 no more
2006 No more
2005 Emily
2004 Alex
2003 Claudette
2002: no more
2001. No more
2000 No more
1999 Irene
1998 Bonnie
1997 Danny
1996 Bertha
1995 Erin
1994 Gordon
1993 Emily
1992 no more
1991 Grace
1990 Diana
1989 Allison(ended up retired in 2001)
1988 no more
1987 Emily
1986 no more
1985 Kate, Juan
1984 Diana
1983 no more
1982:no more
1981:no more
1980:no more
1979:Claudette
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Re: What old storms would you retroactively retire from the name lists?

#9 Postby GSBHurricane » Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:18 pm

Hurricaneman wrote:During the bi gender name era
2018 none
2017: Ophelia
2016 Nicole
2015 no more
2014 Gonzalo
2013 no more
2012 Debby
2011 no more
2010 Earl
2009 no more
2008 no more
2007 no more
2006 No more
2005 Emily
2004 Alex
2003 Claudette
2002: no more
2001. No more
2000 No more
1999 Irene
1998 Bonnie
1997 Danny
1996 Bertha
1995 Erin
1994 Gordon
1993 Emily
1992 no more
1991 Grace
1990 Diana
1989 Allison(ended up retired in 2001)
1988 no more
1987 Emily
1986 no more
1985 Kate, Juan
1984 Diana
1983 no more
1982:no more
1981:no more
1980:no more
1979:Claudette

The only ones I agree with are Juan, Kate, Gordon, Bonnie, Emily (2005), and Gonzalo. Why not Karl 2010, Lee 2011, and Isaac 2012? If you want to go back further I would add Hilda 1955, Alma 1966, and Francelia 1969. Diana was retired after 1990. To be honest I think some names should be unretired like Carmen 1974, Klaus 1990, or Lili 2002 and retirement should be more conservative.
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Re: What old storms would you retroactively retire from the name lists?

#10 Postby al78 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:05 am

If a storm with a Greek letter name gets retired, what would replace the Greek letter?
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Re: What old storms would you retroactively retire from the name lists?

#11 Postby Torino » Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:09 pm

al78 wrote:If a storm with a Greek letter name gets retired, what would replace the Greek letter?

It is retired as "Greek Letter + year", for example "Alpha 2005", but "Alpha" can still be used in the future.
...and yeah...it's a bad idea...that's why I think we should have Y and Z names on the lists, to avoid those kind of situations as much as possible.


Anyway, I think the following names should've been retired:
Kate 1985
Gordon 1994
Emily 2005
Alex 2010
Karl 2010
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Re: What old storms would you retroactively retire from the name lists?

#12 Postby GSBHurricane » Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:39 pm

Torino wrote:
al78 wrote:If a storm with a Greek letter name gets retired, what would replace the Greek letter?

It is retired as "Greek Letter + year", for example "Alpha 2005", but "Alpha" can still be used in the future.
...and yeah...it's a bad idea...that's why I think we should have Y and Z names on the lists, to avoid those kind of situations as much as possible.


Anyway, I think the following names should've been retired:
Kate 1985
Gordon 1994
Emily 2005
Alex 2010
Karl 2010


I don’t think there’s a rule for retiring Greek letters yet. Hopefully X, Y, and Z do get added to the Atlantic lists so it perfectly mirrors the EPAC.
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Re: What old storms would you retroactively retire from the name lists?

#13 Postby Torino » Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:00 pm

GSBHurricane wrote:
Torino wrote:
al78 wrote:If a storm with a Greek letter name gets retired, what would replace the Greek letter?

It is retired as "Greek Letter + year", for example "Alpha 2005", but "Alpha" can still be used in the future.
...and yeah...it's a bad idea...that's why I think we should have Y and Z names on the lists, to avoid those kind of situations as much as possible.


Anyway, I think the following names should've been retired:
Kate 1985
Gordon 1994
Emily 2005
Alex 2010
Karl 2010


I don’t think there’s a rule for retiring Greek letters yet. Hopefully X, Y, and Z do get added to the Atlantic lists so it perfectly mirrors the EPAC.


Yes, there is: https://www.wmo.int/pages/prog/www/tcp/ ... -HC-28.pdf
See page 11.

For XYZ names, I'd suggest:
Xystus, Xerxes, Xander - Ximena, Xyla, Xenia
Yves, Yuri, Yannick - Yvonne, Yeda, Yasmine
Zeb, Zane, Zachary/Zacarias - Zoe, Zelia, Zara
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Re: What old storms would you retroactively retire from the name lists?

#14 Postby EquusStorm » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:49 am

Because Haiti storms get brought up in name retirement threads, I want to point out that this poorest country in the entire hemisphere regularly sees double digit death tolls from ordinary thunderstorms because of godawful environmental policies resulting in completely denuded deforested hillsides sliding with even the slightest of rain. Compare the death tolls in the Dominican Republic, the extremely geographically similar country on the east side of the same island seeing the same rainfall impact from tropical cyclone hits.

Gordon - 1,122 deaths versus 5.
Jeanne - 3,006 deaths versus 18.
Hanna - 529 deaths versus 1.

It becomes a hundred percent clear that the tropical cyclone disasters in Haiti are 99% the fault of their government and their policies instead of the tropical cyclones themselves. It doesn't make them any less of an apocalyptic tragedy, of course, and I would love to see international attention brought to Haiti to bring their living standards up and their poverty and environmental degradation levels way down so that these tolls are a thing of the past; reminder that the damage from the devastating earthquake nearly a decade ago is STILL present. While the country is in depressingly terrible shape, I agree with the WMO in not retiring Gordon and Hanna because a similar hit anywhere else in the hemisphere would have resulted in very few deaths (is Haiti even a WMO member and capable of asking for retirement?) and again I would really like to see further international attention start to help that country's appalling poverty so that we're not even having these convos in the future because the death tolls there are eliminated in future storms.

As for storms I think should have been retired, I honestly can't think of any because if a name wasn't nominated, the affected country didn't deem it notable enough (or weren't WMO members and no other country deemed it notable enough as a proxy) so it wouldn't be my place to assume otherwise. Karl 2010 is probably the most brow-raising due to sheer numerical impact and probably would have justifiably gotten the axe in most other countries. Mexico's retirement track record is a little unusual. Emily I can understand because the death toll was small and damage completely overshadowed by much more devastating Wilma in the same spot a few months later, though a case could be made for MULTIPLE times Emily could have been retired lol.

It's interesting to note that retirement wasn't even a thing when Atlantic naming began; it took the devastating East Coast hits of 1954 and 1955 to make the hastily re-write that rule and even then retirement was initially only for a decade (Carol and Edna were re-used in the 1960s) and the phonetic alphabet names were never changed or modified in 1950-52 despite King's vicious category four hit on Miami in 1950. In retrospect it seems weird that a retirement policy was never put in place because devastating storms SHOULD be stricken from the list, but I do think we retire a few too many these days.
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...but still, though, a lot more interesting than the 2013 season.

Not a meteorologist, in fact more of an idiot than anything. You should probably check with the NHC or a local NWS office for official information.

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Re: What old storms would you retroactively retire from the name lists?

#15 Postby Torino » Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:04 pm

EquusStorm wrote: is Haiti even a WMO member and capable of asking for retirement?


Yes, and they requested Matthew's retirement.
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Re: What old storms would you retroactively retire from the name lists?

#16 Postby Hammy » Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:00 pm

Hurricaneman wrote:During the bi gender name era
1990 Diana


Diana was retired, replaced with Dolly in 1996. Interestingly while I was double-checking a few, this post is the first time I realized Gonzalo and Nicole weren't retired.
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Re: What old storms would you retroactively retire from the name lists?

#17 Postby HurricaneRyan » Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:38 am

I don't think Kate should have been retired. It only hit Florida as a Cat 1 I believe and the affects of it didn't really stick in people's minds for decades like Alicia or Elena for example.
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Re: What old storms would you retroactively retire from the name lists?

#18 Postby MoliNuno » Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:33 am

I wouldn't retroactively retire any storm if it didn't warrant retirement at the conclusion of its respective season.
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Re: What old storms would you retroactively retire from the name lists?

#19 Postby GSBHurricane » Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:07 pm

HurricaneRyan wrote:I don't think Kate should have been retired. It only hit Florida as a Cat 1 I believe and the affects of it didn't really stick in people's minds for decades like Alicia or Elena for example.

I wouldn't retire Kate for it's US effects. Cuba, on the other hand, experienced tremendous losses that were overlooked. Ten deaths, which is a lot for the post-Flora era, and $1.2 billion in period damage (and made landfall as a C3), much of which came from the sugarcane crop which was a big part of Cuba's economy.
https://natcatservice.munichre.com/
Pretty reliable figures for losses and deaths outside the US.
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