2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#261 Postby Weather Dude » Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:53 pm

Eta will be the storm that brings a change to how we name storms after we run out of names on the main list. Catastrophic for CA, and it may even regenerate
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#262 Postby NorthieStangl » Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:04 am

When it's up in the air if either Delta and/or Zeta will be requested to be "retired", there is absolutely no way that Nicaragua would pass up retiring Eta.

If it end up being a Mitch-style storm for both Nicaragua and Honduras - which I'm certain it will be - the committee REALLY need to reconsider its 2006 choice in not removing "retired" names from the Greek alphabet. Seriously, that was a bad idea from the beginning.
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#263 Postby Ubuntwo » Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:32 pm

With at least 70 deaths and a flooding catastrophe, Eta looks like a retirement lock.
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#264 Postby GSBHurricane » Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:42 pm

How do you retire a Greek letter though? You can't replace the letter with another. And saying "Eta 2020" is retired but allowing Eta to be used again immediately could cause confusion if there's multiple storms of the same Greek letter that are retirement worthy in the future. So would you just skip it the letter indefinitely?
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#265 Postby Weather Dude » Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:46 pm

GSBHurricane wrote:How do you retire a Greek letter though? You can't replace the letter with another. And saying "Eta 2020" is retired but allowing Eta to be used again immediately could cause confusion if there's multiple storms of the same Greek letter that are retirement worthy in the future. So would you just skip it the letter indefinitely?

That's why there needs to be a serious discussion about the way storms are named after the main list is used up. Simple solution: just make a 7th list of names and use those as an auxiliary list. Or just do what the WPAC does. I'd actually rather do WPAC style, that way the same letters aren't used in peak season all the time and we end up getting weird replacement names like Isaias
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#266 Postby ClarCari » Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:06 am

Weather Dude wrote:
GSBHurricane wrote:How do you retire a Greek letter though? You can't replace the letter with another. And saying "Eta 2020" is retired but allowing Eta to be used again immediately could cause confusion if there's multiple storms of the same Greek letter that are retirement worthy in the future. So would you just skip it the letter indefinitely?

That's why there needs to be a serious discussion about the way storms are named after the main list is used up. Simple solution: just make a 7th list of names and use those as an auxiliary list. Or just do what the WPAC does. I'd actually rather do WPAC style, that way the same letters aren't used in peak season all the time and we end up getting weird replacement names like Isaias


Actually, Isaias is the original pronunciation and Isaiah is the “weird” name invented by us english speakers because our phonetics are screwed. It’s inappropriate to call proper names used to represent countries in the Atlantic weird names so please don’t.

Anyways, I agree with an update to auxiliary or at least the discussion, but 0% chance the NHC will go like WPAC because our public is already used to the alphabet per-season.
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#267 Postby aspen » Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:07 pm

Eta’s death toll continues to rise, now up to 181 (150 in Guatemala alone). Who knows how high it’ll get. The widespread, devastating, and deadly flooding from Eta is way more than enough to warrant retirement. Looks like this will be the one to make the WHO rethink the rules on Greek names.
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#268 Postby CrazyC83 » Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:43 pm

I agree, we need to "retire" the Greek Alphabet and bring a new procedure.

I think two things should happen: like in the EPAC, there should be an X, Y and Z name alternating every other year. In addition, a new List 7 and List 8 should be added. They would be auxiliary lists with List 7 used in odd years (with a female A name) and List 8 in even years (with a male A name). In the EPAC, those lists would also be used in the other years - List 7 in odd and List 8 in even. Names would be retired normally.
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#269 Postby aspen » Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:24 am

CrazyC83 wrote:I agree, we need to "retire" the Greek Alphabet and bring a new procedure.

I think two things should happen: like in the EPAC, there should be an X, Y and Z name alternating every other year. In addition, a new List 7 and List 8 should be added. They would be auxiliary lists with List 7 used in odd years (with a female A name) and List 8 in even years (with a male A name). In the EPAC, those lists would also be used in the other years - List 7 in odd and List 8 in even. Names would be retired normally.

The 2020 Greeks certainly seem like they want to be retired. They’ve collectively caused >$7.4 billion in damages and >284 fatalities, and three of them — Delta, Zeta, and Eta — have at least some arguments for retirement, with Eta being the most likely contender. There’s no way we should be using Eta again after it has devastated Central America and killed hundreds of people.
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#270 Postby SconnieCane » Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:12 am

aspen wrote:
CrazyC83 wrote:I agree, we need to "retire" the Greek Alphabet and bring a new procedure.

I think two things should happen: like in the EPAC, there should be an X, Y and Z name alternating every other year. In addition, a new List 7 and List 8 should be added. They would be auxiliary lists with List 7 used in odd years (with a female A name) and List 8 in even years (with a male A name). In the EPAC, those lists would also be used in the other years - List 7 in odd and List 8 in even. Names would be retired normally.

The 2020 Greeks certainly seem like they want to be retired. They’ve collectively caused >$7.4 billion in damages and >284 fatalities, and three of them — Delta, Zeta, and Eta — have at least some arguments for retirement, with Eta being the most likely contender. There’s no way we should be using Eta again after it has devastated Central America and killed hundreds of people.


I think part of the problem with the original rationale for "unretireable" Greek names was the assumption that they wouldn't recur often enough for it to be an issue (who'd have thought only 15 years between uses), and that any Greek-named storms would most likely be late season oddballs out in the open subtropical Atlantic (like Delta and Epsilon of 2005).
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#271 Postby CrazyC83 » Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:33 pm

aspen wrote:
CrazyC83 wrote:I agree, we need to "retire" the Greek Alphabet and bring a new procedure.

I think two things should happen: like in the EPAC, there should be an X, Y and Z name alternating every other year. In addition, a new List 7 and List 8 should be added. They would be auxiliary lists with List 7 used in odd years (with a female A name) and List 8 in even years (with a male A name). In the EPAC, those lists would also be used in the other years - List 7 in odd and List 8 in even. Names would be retired normally.

The 2020 Greeks certainly seem like they want to be retired. They’ve collectively caused >$7.4 billion in damages and >284 fatalities, and three of them — Delta, Zeta, and Eta — have at least some arguments for retirement, with Eta being the most likely contender. There’s no way we should be using Eta again after it has devastated Central America and killed hundreds of people.


And we're still not done. I agree, Eta would be a retirement lock if it were a normal name, up there with Laura.
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#272 Postby Iceresistance » Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:23 pm

aspen wrote:Eta’s death toll continues to rise, now up to 181 (150 in Guatemala alone). Who knows how high it’ll get. The widespread, devastating, and deadly flooding from Eta is way more than enough to warrant retirement. Looks like this will be the one to make the WHO rethink the rules on Greek names.



Now over 260. :(
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#273 Postby Iceresistance » Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:25 pm

I was thinking that the only way Greek names could be retired as 'Eta 2020' due to the extreme rarity of these names.



And we are getting deeper into the greek names, what next? Hebrew?
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#274 Postby Weather Dude » Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:45 pm

Iceresistance wrote:I was thinking that the only way Greek names could be retired as 'Eta 2020' due to the extreme rarity of these names.



And we are getting deeper into the greek names, what next? Hebrew?

That's how they currently would be retired. However some posters on here including myself would like to see some changes to that method
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#275 Postby Iceresistance » Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:47 pm

Weather Dude wrote:
Iceresistance wrote:I was thinking that the only way Greek names could be retired as 'Eta 2020' due to the extreme rarity of these names.



And we are getting deeper into the greek names, what next? Hebrew?

That's how they currently would be retired. However some posters on here including myself would like to see some changes to that method



Only time will tell on the retirement suggestments.
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#276 Postby aspen » Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:33 am

It’s crazy that there are six names with cases for retirement this year, and possibly a seventh.
Isaias: $4.7 billion in damages across a large swath of the East Coast, including areas that rarely see TC impacts
Laura: $14.1 billion in damages and 77 fatalities from a 130 kt landfall in SW Louisiana, the strongest landfall in that area
Sally: >$5 billion in damages from a borderline C3 landfall and slow movement
Delta: $4.1 billion in damages after making landfall in the same area ravaged by Laura
Zeta: $3.2 billion in damages from an extremely rare borderline C3 landfall and pass over New Orleans...at the end of October
Eta: >$5.2 billion in damages and >160 fatalities after a devastating 120 kt landfall in Nicaragua and flooding from a multi-day stall over Central America
Iota: looks like this is going to be yet another disaster for Central America, because apparently 2020 has absolutely no idea when it’s time to stop

Who would’ve expected that the Greeks would end up as some of the strongest and most impactful storms of the season? I had a feeling this year could challenge the “no retirement policy” for the Greeks, and it certainly has in a very 2020 fashion: making absolutely no sense and being the worst possible outcome.
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#277 Postby underthwx » Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:31 am

aspen wrote:It’s crazy that there are six names with cases for retirement this year, and possibly a seventh.
Isaias: $4.7 billion in damages across a large swath of the East Coast, including areas that rarely see TC impacts
Laura: $14.1 billion in damages and 77 fatalities from a 130 kt landfall in SW Louisiana, the strongest landfall in that area
Sally: >$5 billion in damages from a borderline C3 landfall and slow movement
Delta: $4.1 billion in damages after making landfall in the same area ravaged by Laura
Zeta: $3.2 billion in damages from an extremely rare borderline C3 landfall and pass over New Orleans...at the end of October
Eta: >$5.2 billion in damages and >160 fatalities after a devastating 120 kt landfall in Nicaragua and flooding from a multi-day stall over Central America
Iota: looks like this is going to be yet another disaster for Central America, because apparently 2020 has absolutely no idea when it’s time to stop

Who would’ve expected that the Greeks would end up as some of the strongest and most impactful storms of the season? I had a feeling this year could challenge the “no retirement policy” for the Greeks, and it certainly has in a very 2020 fashion: making absolutely no sense and being the worst possible outcome.

ETA for example, could be retired and omitted from the list, and just not used again..... Iota is fixin to most likely be another major, let's see if hopefully it can remain weak...
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#278 Postby CrazyC83 » Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:03 pm

aspen wrote:It’s crazy that there are six names with cases for retirement this year, and possibly a seventh.
Isaias: $4.7 billion in damages across a large swath of the East Coast, including areas that rarely see TC impacts
Laura: $14.1 billion in damages and 77 fatalities from a 130 kt landfall in SW Louisiana, the strongest landfall in that area
Sally: >$5 billion in damages from a borderline C3 landfall and slow movement
Delta: $4.1 billion in damages after making landfall in the same area ravaged by Laura
Zeta: $3.2 billion in damages from an extremely rare borderline C3 landfall and pass over New Orleans...at the end of October
Eta: >$5.2 billion in damages and >160 fatalities after a devastating 120 kt landfall in Nicaragua and flooding from a multi-day stall over Central America
Iota: looks like this is going to be yet another disaster for Central America, because apparently 2020 has absolutely no idea when it’s time to stop

Who would’ve expected that the Greeks would end up as some of the strongest and most impactful storms of the season? I had a feeling this year could challenge the “no retirement policy” for the Greeks, and it certainly has in a very 2020 fashion: making absolutely no sense and being the worst possible outcome.


Yet, of the natural names, only Laura is a sure-fire retirement. The Greeks will be a big discussion on how to treat it going forward.
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#279 Postby GSBHurricane » Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:36 pm

Now that Ambo, Quinta, Rolly, and Ulysses have all been decomissioned by PAGASA, I wonder if their WMO counterparts (Vongfong, Molave, Goni, and Vamco) will follow suit into the hall of retirement.
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#280 Postby Hypercane_Kyle » Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:22 pm

CrazyC83 wrote:
aspen wrote:It’s crazythat there are six names with cases for retirement this year, and possibly a seventh.
Isaias: $4.7 billion in damages across a large swath of the East Coast, including areas that rarely see TC impacts
Laura: $14.1 billion in damages and 77 fatalities from a 130 kt landfall in SW Louisiana, the strongest landfall in that area
Sally: >$5 billion in damages from a borderline C3 landfall and slow movement
Delta: $4.1 billion in damages after making landfall in the same area ravaged by Laura
Zeta: $3.2 billion in damages from an extremely rare borderline C3 landfall and pass over New Orleans...at the end of October
Eta: >$5.2 billion in damages and >160 fatalities after a devastating 120 kt landfall in Nicaragua and flooding from a multi-day stall over Central America
Iota: looks like this is going to be yet another disaster for Central America, because apparently 2020 has absolutely no idea when it’s time to stop

Who would’ve expected that the Greeks would end up as some of the strongest and most impactful storms of the season? I had a feeling this year could challenge the “no retirement policy” for the Greeks, and it certainly has in a very 2020 fashion: making absolutely no sense and being the worst possible outcome.


Yet, of the natural names, only Laura is a sure-fire retirement. The Greeks will be a big discussion on how to treat it going forward.


Yeah, quite a strange situation when the majority of the destructive storms this season have all been in the Greek alphabet. I don't think anyone predicted that.
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