2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#381 Postby CrazyC83 » Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:56 pm

somethingfunny wrote:
aspen wrote:I’m very surprised Isaias and Sally are staying. Fun times tracking the next Isaias in 2026.

I guess we can consider Delta and Zeta retired since the entire Greek alphabet got kicked out?


Theoretically, we could still see the name Delta be used to replace a retired D name in the future. Same with Zeta, if we used Z names. So it's technically possible but very unlikely.

I'm a little surprised they used I names for the auxillary lists but not QUXYZ names.


That's correct. Delta could become a female D name, if one is retired.
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#382 Postby aspen » Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:29 pm

CrazyC83 wrote:
somethingfunny wrote:
aspen wrote:I’m very surprised Isaias and Sally are staying. Fun times tracking the next Isaias in 2026.

I guess we can consider Delta and Zeta retired since the entire Greek alphabet got kicked out?


Theoretically, we could still see the name Delta be used to replace a retired D name in the future. Same with Zeta, if we used Z names. So it's technically possible but very unlikely.

I'm a little surprised they used I names for the auxillary lists but not QUXYZ names.


That's correct. Delta could become a female D name, if one is retired.

I would say that it would be difficult to retire a D name if we’re getting more active seasons, but then I remembered Dorian. 2019 took some time to get going, but it still ended as a very active season, so another D name retirement is not impossible at all. Just not the most likely.
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#383 Postby Torino » Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:33 pm

Dexter and Leah are fine replacement names. I was expecting "Sally" to get retired too, but its impact was relatively small if compared to the big 4 (Dorian, Laura, Eta and Iota). She got "Emilyzed".
The auxiliary list is just...something else. I completely understand that they want to keep the best names for the main lists, but some of those names are really... choices :lol:
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#384 Postby AnnularCane » Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:36 pm

I was kind of hoping for Lucinda, but I like Leah too, so not all that disappointed.
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#385 Postby BadLarry95 » Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:57 pm

Torino wrote:Dexter and Leah are fine replacement names. I was expecting "Sally" to get retired too, but its impact was relatively small if compared to the big 4 (Dorian, Laura, Eta and Iota). She got "Emilyzed".
The auxiliary list is just...something else. I completely understand that they want to keep the best names for the main lists, but some of those names are really... choices :lol:



I’m already seeing the dexters lab memes in 2025. And yeah the aux list is bizarre although they did take a few good names like Nolan, Sophie, Viviana, and Will (all of which will never be used. We’re not gonna get 40+ storms unless a meteor impact superheated the Atlantic at which point hurricanes would be the least of our problems
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#386 Postby Category5Kaiju » Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:05 pm

BadLarry95 wrote:
Torino wrote:Dexter and Leah are fine replacement names. I was expecting "Sally" to get retired too, but its impact was relatively small if compared to the big 4 (Dorian, Laura, Eta and Iota). She got "Emilyzed".
The auxiliary list is just...something else. I completely understand that they want to keep the best names for the main lists, but some of those names are really... choices :lol:



I’m already seeing the dexters lab memes in 2025. And yeah the aux list is bizarre although they did take a few good names like Nolan, Sophie, Viviana, and Will (all of which will never be used. We’re not gonna get 40+ storms unless a meteor impact superheated the Atlantic at which point hurricanes would be the least of our problems


Yeah, but I think having 42 possible names for the Atlantic and 48 in the Pacific is a healthy number. Let's hope we don't get in the 40s anytime soon though.
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#387 Postby Fancy1001 » Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:52 pm

Just for the fun of it, who wants Orlanda to hit Orlando.
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#388 Postby BadLarry95 » Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:54 pm

Fancy1001 wrote:Just for the fun of it, who wants Orlanda to hit Orlando.


Or isla to hit literally any island in a Spanish speaking country. La tormenta Isla destruí una isla
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#389 Postby Ptarmigan » Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:31 pm

Retiring Greek letter names are interesting.
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#390 Postby DorkyMcDorkface » Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:15 pm

Feel bad for neglecting this place for the longest time (especially after a season as wild as last year) but with the big news today I suppose this is the perfect time to hop back on :)

Even though some of the name choices are a little odd, this was definitely the right move. I don't think it ever really occurred to anyone the issues with the Greek naming system back in '05 due to the fact that none of the storms were damaging enough to be considered candidates for retirement and it was the first time it was ever implemented, but last year definitely exposed its flaws with both Eta and Iota being powerful, destructive and deadly cyclones that would certainly have warranted removal off the regular naming list. Now we have a system implemented that, if push comes to shove and we exhaust the regular list again, will allow for a legitimate process when it comes to retirement, not to mention it will probably be easier for the general public to identify and remember these storms.

As for Sally not getting the axe, I do think it's a little strange...
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#391 Postby Category5Kaiju » Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:17 pm

DorkyMcDorkface wrote:Feel bad for neglecting this place for the longest time (especially after a season as wild as last year) but with the big news today I suppose this is the perfect time to hop back on :)

Even though some of the name choices are a little odd, this was definitely the right move. I don't think it ever really occurred to anyone the issues with the Greek naming system back in '05 due to the fact that none of the storms were damaging enough to be considered candidates for retirement and it was the first time it was ever implemented, but last year definitely exposed its flaws with both Eta and Iota being powerful, destructive and deadly cyclones that would certainly have warranted removal off the regular naming list. Now we have a system implemented that, if push comes to shove and we exhaust the regular list again, will allow for a legitimate process when it comes to retirement, not to mention it will probably be easier for the general public to identify and remember these storms.

As for Sally not getting the axe, I do think it's a little strange...


Yeah for sure, I do like the new 7th aux list for the Atlantic as it seems to feature some interesting, less common human names, and using those names would definitely allow people to understand a very active and special season much like Greek letters would. However, as these are human names, retiring and replacing one would be way easier than the Greeks, so I think the WMO made a good decision here. But yeah, I was a bit surprised about how Sally did not get retired. Definitely a perfect example of how a crazy season overall like 2020 could lead to some otherwise retirement-worthy storms to get overshadowed.
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#392 Postby ncforecaster89 » Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:36 pm

My only issue with the exclusion of Sally from the WMO “Hall of Fame” retirement list is that there’s no real consistent metric used to make such determinations.

In my own personal opinion, I feel as though.there should be specific general guidelines (relative to impacts, damage, and deaths) to ensure such consistency.

If TC’s, such as Sally, aren’t deemed retirement-worthy, then I think a number of other previously retired storm names should be unretired. I’ll add that each storm should be viewed independently...regardless of whether there were numerous other TC’s that may have overshadowed them.
Last edited by ncforecaster89 on Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#393 Postby Hurricane Mike » Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:13 am

I am surprised Sally wasn't retired, and the separate name list is insane. But atleast there won't be the issue of Greek names anymore.
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#394 Postby ClarCari » Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:39 am

I think there is beauty in retirement of names being more subjective in that it is adaptive to what a name means to the people impacted.

A set criteria to retire names could be a logistical nightmare like PAGASA. I can guarantee there a bunch of people in the Philippines and surrounding areas who could care less about 75% of the names retired from their local lists.

The fact that actual WMO names are decided by representative votes in a committee makes more sense since names can be retired based on the current context of the time of the name such as media recognition of a storm, longevity, and overall death and destruction.
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#395 Postby wxman57 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:27 am

I won't get any more questions at work from clients asking why the Greek alphabet is not in "alphabetical order". :think:
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#396 Postby Cleveland Kent Evans » Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:41 am

I would love to know how they created the auxiliary lists. They certainly include some surprising choices.

I find it amusing that some 25 year old earlier has the impression of "Braylen" that it's a blonde teenage girl. Braylen is actually one of three modern African-American male names on the Atlantic auxiliary list, the other two being Deshawn and Tayshaun (why did they choose two that both end in -shawn/shaun?). Braylen is an alternative spelling of Braylon, made popular in the African-American community because of the American football player Braylon Edwards. Braylen is the more common spelling for babies being born right now, though, so someone may have done homework on that on the Social Security baby name list. If you Google Braylen you get pages referring mostly to young African-American men. A few sample links are below:

https://www.hudl.com/profile/5530147/Braylen-Brooks

https://thephotographicjournal.com/essays/dream-to-me/

https://www.prepbaseballreport.com/prof ... 1460398572

https://247sports.com/player/braylen-jackson-46086441/


Again, I think they are wrong about there not being enough Y and Z names for the lists and wish they had included those letters in the Atlantic, at least on the auxiliary list.
Last edited by Cleveland Kent Evans on Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#397 Postby Nuno » Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:58 am

aspen wrote:I’m very surprised Isaias and Sally are staying. Fun times tracking the next Isaias in 2026.


NXStumpy_Robothing wrote:Well, I'm a bit surprised by what stayed, but certainly not by what went name-wise. Should be interesting to see what sort of auxiliary list they put together, though it doesn't necessarily solve the issue of starting with one letter, allowing for I names to be drained out of the pool.

Regardless, with this decision, Sally at $7.3 billion, Imelda at $5.0 billion, Isaias at $4.8 billion, Zeta at $3.6 billion, and Delta at $3.0 billion become the costliest, second-costliest, third-costliest, fifth-costliest, and seventh-costliest storms to not be retired.


Billion dollar storms are the norm now. There is no way Isaias or Imelda would (or should) be retired anyways. Given how much urban density has built along the coast, storms that cost $10B+ should probably be the barometer (no pun intended :ggreen: ) if you're just factoring insured losses. Otherwise, are we just going to retire every landfalling hurricane going forward?

I'm in the minority here, but I loved the Greek alphabet and I will miss it.
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#398 Postby Weather Dude » Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:25 pm

Just went back and read the discussion on the retired names, as I was mostly tracking the severe weather outbreak yesterday. My thoughts:
1) Like everyone, I agree the names retired most definitely should have been.
2) I agree with them on not retiring Imelda and Isaias.
3) I thought Sally could go either way personally, so I'm not surprised that they decided to keep it.
4) I'm really glad they got rid of the Greeks. Personally I think it would have been easier to just start doing what the WPAC does and continue from wherever they leave off the previous season, but the auxiliary list is still a better option than the Greeks. I will say this though, I don't think they should have gone all the way to W, as there's absolutely no way we are ever getting that far.
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#399 Postby AnnularCane » Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:36 pm

I actually can't help wondering if the names used on the auxiliary list are a chance for the WMO to show off their creativity. :lol: With a few exceptions, a lot of them might be less likely to be used as future replacement names for the main lists. But that's just a thought.
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Re: 2019 and 2020 Cyclones Retirement (both years to be announced in 2021)

#400 Postby Category5Kaiju » Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:47 pm

AnnularCane wrote:I actually can't help wondering if the names used on the auxiliary list are a chance for the WMO to show off their creativity. :lol: With a few exceptions, a lot of them might be less likely to be used as future replacement names for the main lists. But that's just a thought.


It seems like they did decide to include some African American names like "Braylen," "Deshawn," and "Tayshaun" at least on the Atlantic side, although there are a handful of names like "Gemma" or "Sophie" that are on the aux list but are also very common names. And then there's "Pax" and "Ronin," and tbh I am not exactly sure where those names originate...either way, I do like the way the aux lists have rare human names. I think it's kind of cool
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