2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2061 Postby SFLcane » Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:49 am

toad strangler wrote:
DestinHurricane wrote:Sure, we might see a lot of storms. But I don't think they'll be terribly strong. We may see 20 more 45 mph tropical storms moving north in the middle of the Atlantic. I don't call that activity.


What are you basing this on? We have yet to even reach the BEGINNING of the climatological spike in the tropical calendar. Come on, we need to do better in this thread. It's been quite unreadable lately. I feel like I have to pick the ticks off a dog to get to the good posts.


2 week break then maybe the switch comes off
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2062 Postby JPmia » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:07 pm

TheStormExpert wrote:Isaias might be a precursor of tracks to come.

https://twitter.com/crownweather/status/1289932726737317890


That is quite an ominous thread and outlook.. Saying Florida is most at risk during the heart of the season this year.
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2063 Postby EquusStorm » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:50 pm

"The second back to back super anomalous September snowstorm in a week in conditions that shouldn't have supported snow only dropped 3" of snow, with these lame storm totals we're totally not gonna get anything but shallow crappy snow come January and February"

If it hadn't been for extraordinary July 2005 and 2008 I honestly wonder if expectations would be more realistic
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2064 Postby EquusStorm » Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:45 pm

I'm reading through the indicators thread from 2017, from exactly three years ago today. Guess what? Discussion on SAL and shear and suggestions the season might be full of weaker storms because conditions were a bit unfavorable as August started, and when the 'switch' might be flipped. Even a discussion on the GFS being very conservative. Literally the same. Check 50-55 pages in or so; we're having the exact same discussions and arguments now lol

It's certainly not out of the realm of possibility to have an underperforming season, stranger things have happened, but come on, let's not cancel a tornado outbreak at 3am here
Last edited by EquusStorm on Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2065 Postby CyclonicFury » Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:48 pm

EquusStorm wrote:"The second back to back super anomalous September snowstorm in a week in conditions that shouldn't have supported snow only dropped 3" of snow, with these lame storm totals we're totally not gonna get anything but shallow crappy snow come January and February"

If it hadn't been for extraordinary July 2005 and 2008 I honestly wonder if expectations would be more realistic

Great analogy! 2017 is proof that early season weak, short-lived storms are not necessarily a sign that storms during peak season will also be weak.

Major hurricanes before mid-late August are rare in the Atlantic, as I have stated numerous times.
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2066 Postby Kingarabian » Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:40 pm

DestinHurricane wrote:Sure, we might see a lot of storms. But I don't think they'll be terribly strong. We may see 20 more 45 mph tropical storms moving north in the middle of the Atlantic. I don't call that activity.

Disturbances that develop into TC's in August are usually on the stronger side... If July was able to spawn two decent hurricanes, imagine August.
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2067 Postby psyclone » Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:04 pm

The lessons of climo are very much like sunblock....they need to be reapplied frequently because the lessons are temporary. The Atlantic basin begins climbing the climo ramp in August....but...that climb starts from a low baseline. The net effect is that August tends to be a big month but it is very asymmetric with the 2nd half being where things go boom. The first half of August is frequently (but not always) not much more active than late july. We're still working out SAL and other issues. By mid month...climo magically goes from a headwind to a tailwind. We should start to expect "quality" storms then. We're not entitled to much of that beforehand. A good measuring stick for the people that subject us to this every year (yep it's the same ones and they know exactly who they are)..is to look at historical big hits. Anniversaries of whoppers. they rapidly increase starting mid month. By late August almost everyday is an anniversary of a huge life changing storm somewhere and that continues through September and into October. Impatience does not = unfavorable.
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2068 Postby Emmett_Brown » Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:51 pm

psyclone wrote:The lessons of climo are very much like sunblock....they need to be reapplied frequently because the lessons are temporary. The Atlantic basin begins climbing the climo ramp in August....but...that climb starts from a low baseline. The net effect is that August tends to be a big month but it is very asymmetric with the 2nd half being where things go boom. The first half of August is frequently (but not always) not much more active than late july. We're still working out SAL and other issues. By mid month...climo magically goes from a headwind to a tailwind. We should start to expect "quality" storms then. We're not entitled to much of that beforehand. A good measuring stick for the people that subject us to this every year (yep it's the same ones and they know exactly who they are)..is to look at historical big hits. Anniversaries of whoppers. they rapidly increase starting mid month. By late August almost everyday is an anniversary of a huge life changing storm somewhere and that continues through September and into October. Impatience does not = unfavorable.


Well said. I guess there was a reason they used to ring the bell on Aug 15th at NHC.
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2069 Postby TheStormExpert » Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:21 pm

Definitely glad that SE Florida dodged yet another bullet with Isaias but I’m concerned that folks down here in metropolitan SE Florida are going to get real complacent especially if something more serious and threatening approaches and directly hits. We’ve had way too many close calls in just the past five seasons that I can think of and I know that they’re many out there that have a sense of complacency, I know I do sometimes but will not let this fool me! :wink:

Definitely concerned though considering it’s only August 2nd and we’ve just started climbing the peak.
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2070 Postby Hurrilurker » Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:24 pm

I'm wondering if at some point global warming / climate change starts moving that Aug. 15 date (I would assume earlier), of if all of the other factors involved mean it doesn't have much effect. For example, what will the effect on ENSO, NAO, SAL, trade wind patterns, etc. be?
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2071 Postby Steve » Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:05 pm

psyclone wrote:The lessons of climo are very much like sunblock....they need to be reapplied frequently because the lessons are temporary. The Atlantic basin begins climbing the climo ramp in August....but...that climb starts from a low baseline. The net effect is that August tends to be a big month but it is very asymmetric with the 2nd half being where things go boom. The first half of August is frequently (but not always) not much more active than late july. We're still working out SAL and other issues. By mid month...climo magically goes from a headwind to a tailwind. We should start to expect "quality" storms then. We're not entitled to much of that beforehand. A good measuring stick for the people that subject us to this every year (yep it's the same ones and they know exactly who they are)...


LOL. Hopefully if I contributed to that thread, I had something informative to say. I'd be scared to go back and read some of that stuff especially anything I posted after midnight.

Great points by all. The first two months of the 2020 season have made it about as exciting as it could have started. There's a system every several days which we aren't used to in June and July. Most storms have been near land or hit it. Ominous climate models and expert updates to the extreme are constantly coming out. It's a year people should be engaged. We already know what we're looking for with the MJO so maybe there are less season cancel posts than many other years. Seems that way anecdotally to me anyway.

So on the one hand, if we only had maybe a tropical storm and a couple of waves, many people's already short attention spans have them succumbing to cancelling the season. haha. But I just don't get anyone questioning this season at this point. We don't know for sure what's in store, but it doesn't look good. And if the season stays Western-biased overall, there's a fairly good shot that many of us will be be hit by a hurricane this year or have a close call or two.
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2072 Postby tolakram » Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:35 pm

DestinHurricane wrote:Sure, we might see a lot of storms. But I don't think they'll be terribly strong. We may see 20 more 45 mph tropical storms moving north in the middle of the Atlantic. I don't call that activity.


I'll quote this and we can revisit when the seasons is done.
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2073 Postby DestinHurricane » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:31 pm

tolakram wrote:
DestinHurricane wrote:Sure, we might see a lot of storms. But I don't think they'll be terribly strong. We may see 20 more 45 mph tropical storms moving north in the middle of the Atlantic. I don't call that activity.


I'll quote this and we can revisit when the seasons is done.


Sure. Just my prediction and what I have been hearing from some pro mets I know. We may very well see some majors, I just think that the % of storms turning into hurricanes will be lower this year.
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2074 Postby cheezyWXguy » Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:21 pm

DestinHurricane wrote:
tolakram wrote:
DestinHurricane wrote:Sure, we might see a lot of storms. But I don't think they'll be terribly strong. We may see 20 more 45 mph tropical storms moving north in the middle of the Atlantic. I don't call that activity.


I'll quote this and we can revisit when the seasons is done.

Sure. Just my prediction and what I have been hearing from some pro mets I know. We may very well see some majors, I just think that the % of storms turning into hurricanes will be lower this year.


Can you link to any pro mets? I haven’t seen anything to suggest that peak season will feature consistently weak storms and I would be interested in their insight.
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2075 Postby CyclonicFury » Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:31 pm

Remember when the Euro was showing super high pressures over the Atlantic, as it usually does? :lol:
 https://twitter.com/philklotzbach/status/1290103445530148864


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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2076 Postby WeatherEmperor » Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:39 pm

tolakram wrote:
DestinHurricane wrote:Sure, we might see a lot of storms. But I don't think they'll be terribly strong. We may see 20 more 45 mph tropical storms moving north in the middle of the Atlantic. I don't call that activity.


I'll quote this and we can revisit when the seasons is done.

I took a screenshot and will keep it as backup in case we forget to revisit this at season's end


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2077 Postby toad strangler » Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:49 pm

DestinHurricane wrote:
tolakram wrote:
DestinHurricane wrote:Sure, we might see a lot of storms. But I don't think they'll be terribly strong. We may see 20 more 45 mph tropical storms moving north in the middle of the Atlantic. I don't call that activity.


I'll quote this and we can revisit when the seasons is done.


Sure. Just my prediction and what I have been hearing from some pro mets I know.


LOL sure dude, sure ...

meanwhile

 http://twitter.com/AndyHazelton/status/1290115229830074368


Last edited by toad strangler on Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2078 Postby SFLcane » Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:16 pm

CyclonicFury wrote:Remember when the Euro was showing super high pressures over the Atlantic, as it usually does? :lol:
https://twitter.com/philklotzbach/status/1290103445530148864


Wow! Enjoy the next 1-2 weeks folks things might go gangbusters. :eek:
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2079 Postby TheStormExpert » Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:48 pm

Indications are once we hit August 15th-20th the lid will pop! Enjoy the calm before the “real” storms.
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Re: 2020 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Steering / Shear / Instability / Sat Images

#2080 Postby Steve » Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:58 pm

DestinHurricane wrote:
tolakram wrote:
DestinHurricane wrote:Sure, we might see a lot of storms. But I don't think they'll be terribly strong. We may see 20 more 45 mph tropical storms moving north in the middle of the Atlantic. I don't call that activity.


I'll quote this and we can revisit when the seasons is done.


Sure. Just my prediction and what I have been hearing from some pro mets I know. We may very well see some majors, I just think that the % of storms turning into hurricanes will be lower this year.


Not being a ****, but does that really say anything since the percentage would still be down if we had 10 straight hurricanes at this point? I don't know what the current actual averages for named storms are, but say they are 10 and 6 of them become hurricanes. That's 60%. Or if it's 7 out of 11, then we're at 63.6% We're far off that because of the plethora of named storms we have already had - what is it 9 named storms and 3 became hurricanes?. I understand if you are saying there might be a few stronger storms but you feel like overall, there will be more weaker ones. And you might end up being right. I don't personally agree. I feel like we're seeing a progression of systems at a time we usually don't get much of anything. Once we get past mid-August, most of the storms for that succeeding 6 or 7 weeks are pretty likely to become hurricanes, so we'll find out what happens, but I'd bet on lots of actual hurricanes to come. What I'm less sure of is how many majors there will be. Several experts have 4 and even some have 5 or 6. I don't know, and I wouldn't bet on it - 3? Maybe 4? Only 2?
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