2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

This is the general tropical discussion area. Anyone can take their shot at predicting a storms path.

Moderator: S2k Moderators

Forum rules

The posts in this forum are NOT official forecasts and should not be used as such. They are just the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. They are NOT endorsed by any professional institution or STORM2K. For official information, please refer to products from the National Hurricane Center and National Weather Service.

Help Support Storm2K
Message
Author
User avatar
chaser1
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 4680
Age: 63
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 5:59 pm
Location: Longwood, Fl

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#3981 Postby chaser1 » Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:34 am

Category5Kaiju wrote:https://twitter.com/philklotzbach/status/1448711837562781697

This is something you don't see every year. Given it is October, I would be very surprised if no major, potent cyclone in any basin worldwide forms during this month; that would be beyond mind-boggling. My guess is given the La Nina state and above average sst anomalies in the western part of the basin the Atlantic would have a very good chance to produce something significant even if it is by the month's end, and of course the WPAC is able to crank up super typhoons even during La Nina years (Zeb, Goni, Megi, etc.). But it is strange to see how all three major NH basins this year have been very MJO-dependent as hammy explained; I am guessing the amplitude has something to do with it, but why it has had a greater amplitude this year than others I do not know.


Interestingly, both years (1985 & 2010) were both LaNina years. 2010 was a strong LaNina and obviously a busy year (19/12/5) but October storms quickly succumbed to increasing wind shear by the time reaching 20N. 1985 was a 2nd yr. LaNina with average numbers (11/7/3) where activity seemed to tail off after Gloria for most of October, until Juan landfalled as a min. hurricane in Louisiana and major hurricane Kate formed in mid November and landfalled N. Florida as a Cat 2. Meanwhile, 2021 has been a very busy year thus far during a year ballyhoo'd as a developing cool neutral ENSO leading toward LaNina yet upper level conditions during October have evolved to anything but LaNina-like. I too would have bet my last quarter that October would have been gang-buster in light of the warm SST's and favorable upper level conditions that with a late year transitioning LaNina. I'll say this though, I've always found there to be roughly a 30 day lag following a newly transitioning ENSO pattern change prior to impacting Atlantic tropical cyclone activity.

One part of me looks at present and near term forecast conditions realizing that it's already Oct 15. and minimal hints that tropical activity will suddenly "pop" anytime soon. The much anticipated MJO factor to ignite W. Atlantic basin tropical activity has seemed to continue to get pushed back in time, and now appearing to be forecast to have far less amplitude then previously though. Could this be a year where October was largely transitional, but where LaNina conditions will actually kick in starting the last few days of the month and into November?? I think the latter could be a reasonable possibility but only to a degree. November may well bring another major to Central American, Bay of Campeche, or perhaps the N. Caribbean but as things stand now (along with Climo) that risk-window for the CONUS is clearly narrowing.
3 likes   
Personal Forecast Disclaimer:
The posts in this forum are NOT official forecast and should not be used as such. They are just the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. They are NOT endorsed by any professional institution or storm2k.org. For official information, please refer to the NHC and NWS products.



User avatar
Teban54
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 1:19 pm

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#3982 Postby Teban54 » Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:42 am

Category5Kaiju wrote:https://twitter.com/philklotzbach/status/1448711837562781697

This is something you don't see every year. Given it is October, I would be very surprised if no major, potent cyclone in any basin worldwide forms during this month; that would be beyond mind-boggling. My guess is given the La Nina state and above average sst anomalies in the western part of the basin the Atlantic would have a very good chance to produce something significant even if it is by the month's end, and of course the WPAC is able to crank up super typhoons even during La Nina years (Zeb, Goni, Megi, etc.). But it is strange to see how all three major NH basins this year have been very MJO-dependent as hammy explained; I am guessing the amplitude has something to do with it, but why it has had a greater amplitude this year than others I do not know.

Worth noting that both 1985 and 2010 had rather active late Octobers through early November:
1985 later had two rare Northern Gulf hurricane landfalls, Juan (C1) and Kate (peak C3, landfall C1). That was during an inactive period too.
2010 had 5 hurricanes in October and November, 3 of them formed after October 15, despite none of them being majors. That also includes a rare late-October MDR storm that's Tomas, which eventually peaked at C2 and was at times forecast to become a major.
0 likes   

User avatar
Teban54
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 1:19 pm

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#3983 Postby Teban54 » Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:50 am

chaser1 wrote:The much anticipated MJO factor to ignite W. Atlantic basin tropical activity has seemed to continue to get pushed back in time, and now appearing to be forecast to have far less amplitude then previously though.

At least this particular graphic (source) didn't change much in magnitude from the last few times I looked at it:
Image
0 likes   

User avatar
aspen
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 8056
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:10 pm
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#3984 Postby aspen » Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:15 am

Teban54 wrote:
chaser1 wrote:The much anticipated MJO factor to ignite W. Atlantic basin tropical activity has seemed to continue to get pushed back in time, and now appearing to be forecast to have far less amplitude then previously though.

At least this particular graphic (source) didn't change much in magnitude from the last few times I looked at it:
https://i.imgur.com/279Cujo.png

Wow that is a slow MJO. It might still be over the western Atlantic into the first week of November if it follows this low forecast propagation speed.

While it doesn’t look super potent, it’s important to note that the amplitude of both the suppressive and enhanced MJO phases are always lower in the first and second week forecasts from that source.
1 likes   
Irene '11 Sandy '12 Hermine '16 5/15/2018 Derecho Fay '20 Isaias '20 Elsa '21 Henri '21 Ida '21

I am only a meteorology enthusiast who knows a decent amount about tropical cyclones. Look to the professional mets, the NHC, or your local weather office for the best information.

User avatar
SFLcane
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 9606
Age: 46
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:44 pm
Location: Lake Worth Florida

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#3985 Postby SFLcane » Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:00 pm

Teban54 wrote:
chaser1 wrote:The much anticipated MJO factor to ignite W. Atlantic basin tropical activity has seemed to continue to get pushed back in time, and now appearing to be forecast to have far less amplitude then previously though.

At least this particular graphic (source) didn't change much in magnitude from the last few times I looked at it:
https://i.imgur.com/279Cujo.png



Yeah the period from October 20/25 through November 5 still looks good MJO-wise for the Atlantic. For what ever reason Guidance isn't jumping though.
0 likes   

User avatar
SFLcane
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 9606
Age: 46
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:44 pm
Location: Lake Worth Florida

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#3986 Postby SFLcane » Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:05 pm

I mean it is getting late…

We sort of blew the best Caribbean climo period with the unfavorable phase.
0 likes   

User avatar
boca
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 6306
Age: 59
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 8:49 am
Location: Boca Raton,FL

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#3987 Postby boca » Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:32 pm

Stick a fork in hurricane season 2021 we are done as of late last month.
2 likes   

User avatar
Category5Kaiju
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 3351
Age: 22
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:45 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#3988 Postby Category5Kaiju » Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:56 pm

boca wrote:Stick a fork in hurricane season 2021 we are done as of late last month.


For the CONUS or the entire basin?
0 likes   
Unless explicitly stated, all information covered in my posts is based on my opinions and observations. Please refer to a professional meteorologist or an accredited weather research agency otherwise, especially if serious decisions must be made in the event of a potentially life-threatening tropical storm or hurricane.

User avatar
aspen
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 8056
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:10 pm
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#3989 Postby aspen » Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:00 pm

We’ll probably have a better idea of the season’s ending around the middle of next week. The tropical wave that could become a WCar system will be nearing the Lesser Antilles by then, and any development will fall into the slightly less uncertain 5-7 day range. If that wave is not developing despite the MJO slowly coming into a more favorable position, then the season is done for — it won’t be able to produce anything once the MJO leaves, seeing how activity in the NHem is so dependent on sub-seasonal forcings this year.
0 likes   
Irene '11 Sandy '12 Hermine '16 5/15/2018 Derecho Fay '20 Isaias '20 Elsa '21 Henri '21 Ida '21

I am only a meteorology enthusiast who knows a decent amount about tropical cyclones. Look to the professional mets, the NHC, or your local weather office for the best information.

User avatar
Category5Kaiju
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 3351
Age: 22
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:45 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#3990 Postby Category5Kaiju » Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:07 pm

Unless some of the older and more experienced posters on here have any idea, in terms of activity in the NHem this year, are there any good analogs of other years that had such a huge reliance on the MJO to generate activity? This is certainly the first hurricane season I have tracked that featured this kind of extraordinary behavior, so yeah
0 likes   
Unless explicitly stated, all information covered in my posts is based on my opinions and observations. Please refer to a professional meteorologist or an accredited weather research agency otherwise, especially if serious decisions must be made in the event of a potentially life-threatening tropical storm or hurricane.

User avatar
Category5Kaiju
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 3351
Age: 22
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:45 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#3991 Postby Category5Kaiju » Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:08 pm

aspen wrote:We’ll probably have a better idea of the season’s ending around the middle of next week. The tropical wave that could become a WCar system will be nearing the Lesser Antilles by then, and any development will fall into the slightly less uncertain 5-7 day range. If that wave is not developing despite the MJO slowly coming into a more favorable position, then the season is done for — it won’t be able to produce anything once the MJO leaves, seeing how activity in the NHem is so dependent on sub-seasonal forcings this year.


Imagine if the WPAC, the EPAC, and the Atlantic collectively fail to generate NSs this month, let alone at least one potent cyclone. That would certainly have nearly every met and weather enthusiast scratching their heads for answers.
2 likes   
Unless explicitly stated, all information covered in my posts is based on my opinions and observations. Please refer to a professional meteorologist or an accredited weather research agency otherwise, especially if serious decisions must be made in the event of a potentially life-threatening tropical storm or hurricane.

User avatar
SFLcane
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 9606
Age: 46
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:44 pm
Location: Lake Worth Florida

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#3992 Postby SFLcane » Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:27 pm

Category5Kaiju wrote:Unless some of the older and more experienced posters on here have any idea, in terms of activity in the NHem this year, are there any good analogs of other years that had such a huge reliance on the MJO to generate activity? This is certainly the first hurricane season I have tracked that featured this kind of extraordinary behavior, so yeah



I think 1996 was similar.
0 likes   

hurricanes1234
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 2903
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:19 pm
Location: Trinidad and Tobago

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#3993 Postby hurricanes1234 » Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:28 pm

The extreme amplitude of the MJO this year and how it's caused storm activity to become utterly dependent on the enhanced phase proves that too much of a good thing is never a good thing. :lol:
1 likes   
PLEASE NOTE: With the exception of information from weather agencies that I may copy and paste here, my posts will NEVER be official, since I am NOT a meteorologist. They are solely my amateur opinion, and may or may not be accurate. Therefore, please DO NOT use them as official details, particularly when making important decisions. Thank you.

User avatar
Category5Kaiju
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 3351
Age: 22
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:45 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#3994 Postby Category5Kaiju » Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:30 pm

hurricanes1234 wrote:The extreme amplitude of the MJO this year and how it's caused storm activity to become utterly dependent on the enhanced phase proves that too much of a good thing is never a good thing. :lol:


For last year, it was an extremely powerful AEJ and WAM that hurt the ability to generate long tracked MDR hurricanes.
3 likes   
Unless explicitly stated, all information covered in my posts is based on my opinions and observations. Please refer to a professional meteorologist or an accredited weather research agency otherwise, especially if serious decisions must be made in the event of a potentially life-threatening tropical storm or hurricane.

User avatar
SFLcane
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 9606
Age: 46
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:44 pm
Location: Lake Worth Florida

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#3995 Postby SFLcane » Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:33 pm

Category5Kaiju wrote:
aspen wrote:We’ll probably have a better idea of the season’s ending around the middle of next week. The tropical wave that could become a WCar system will be nearing the Lesser Antilles by then, and any development will fall into the slightly less uncertain 5-7 day range. If that wave is not developing despite the MJO slowly coming into a more favorable position, then the season is done for — it won’t be able to produce anything once the MJO leaves, seeing how activity in the NHem is so dependent on sub-seasonal forcings this year.


Imagine if the WPAC, the EPAC, and the Atlantic collectively fail to generate NSs this month, let alone at least one potent cyclone. That would certainly have nearly every met and weather enthusiast scratching their heads for answers.


Well WPAC and EPAC already had systems.
0 likes   

AlphaToOmega
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 1448
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:51 am
Location: Somewhere in Massachusetts

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#3996 Postby AlphaToOmega » Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:35 pm

SFLcane wrote:
Category5Kaiju wrote:
aspen wrote:We’ll probably have a better idea of the season’s ending around the middle of next week. The tropical wave that could become a WCar system will be nearing the Lesser Antilles by then, and any development will fall into the slightly less uncertain 5-7 day range. If that wave is not developing despite the MJO slowly coming into a more favorable position, then the season is done for — it won’t be able to produce anything once the MJO leaves, seeing how activity in the NHem is so dependent on sub-seasonal forcings this year.


Imagine if the WPAC, the EPAC, and the Atlantic collectively fail to generate NSs this month, let alone at least one potent cyclone. That would certainly have nearly every met and weather enthusiast scratching their heads for answers.


Well WPAC and EPAC already had systems.


And that means, based on MJO progression, the NAtl will likely have systems soon
1 likes   

User avatar
Category5Kaiju
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 3351
Age: 22
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:45 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#3997 Postby Category5Kaiju » Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:37 pm

SFLcane wrote:
Category5Kaiju wrote:
aspen wrote:We’ll probably have a better idea of the season’s ending around the middle of next week. The tropical wave that could become a WCar system will be nearing the Lesser Antilles by then, and any development will fall into the slightly less uncertain 5-7 day range. If that wave is not developing despite the MJO slowly coming into a more favorable position, then the season is done for — it won’t be able to produce anything once the MJO leaves, seeing how activity in the NHem is so dependent on sub-seasonal forcings this year.


Imagine if the WPAC, the EPAC, and the Atlantic collectively fail to generate NSs this month, let alone at least one potent cyclone. That would certainly have nearly every met and weather enthusiast scratching their heads for answers.


Well WPAC and EPAC already had systems.


Well I meant once the current WPAC storm dissipates for the remainder of the month…probably not going to happen, I was just messing :D
0 likes   
Unless explicitly stated, all information covered in my posts is based on my opinions and observations. Please refer to a professional meteorologist or an accredited weather research agency otherwise, especially if serious decisions must be made in the event of a potentially life-threatening tropical storm or hurricane.

User avatar
cycloneye
Admin
Admin
Posts: 139025
Age: 67
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 10:54 am
Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#3998 Postby cycloneye » Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:38 pm

0 likes   
Visit the Caribbean-Central America Weather Thread where you can find at first post web cams,radars
and observations from Caribbean basin members Click Here

User avatar
SFLcane
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 9606
Age: 46
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:44 pm
Location: Lake Worth Florida

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#3999 Postby SFLcane » Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:43 pm

Even with the mjo nearing the models in the Atlantic are not doing anything. I think they moved out till 2022
0 likes   

MarioProtVI
Category 2
Category 2
Posts: 669
Age: 22
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:33 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#4000 Postby MarioProtVI » Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:46 pm

SFLcane wrote:Even with the mjo nearing the models in the Atlantic are not doing anything. I think they moved out till 2022

GFS is showing signs of a gyre but is still obviously biased towards EPac. They’ve been trash at adjusting to MJOs recently.
0 likes   


Return to “Talkin' Tropics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Beef Stew, Blown Away, TheAustinMan, zal0phus and 86 guests