Convection in the... Mediterranean?

[Matt-hurricanewatcher]

I understand clearly that greece or the nhc can't name it. The JTWC could, they work for the navy and we do have a few ships with in the area. So it would be with in there interest.

They could but they won't. Deal with it.

I don't think greece can upgrade a system to a cyclone. In why should I have do deal with anything?

Also Coredsat, I agree mostly with what you said. But the JTWC does not go along with the officals, they are more or less on there own. At least I think. Also they do number systems before the officals do. Coredsate, what I'm trying to say is were there is naval interest then there is the JTWC for tropical cyclones. I don't understand enough to say one way or the other about this.

[Category 5]

I understand clearly that greece or the nhc can't name it. The JTWC could, they work for the navy and we do have a few ships with in the area. So it would be with in there interest.

They could but they won't. Deal with it.

I don't think greece can upgrade a system to a cyclone. In why should I have do deal with anything?

Because it seems that you're begging for this system to get named despite the fact that it has been stated several times that theres nobody who is going to name it. What difference does it make if it's named or not?

[Matt-hurricanewatcher]

I don't think greece can upgrade a system to a cyclone. In why should I have do deal with anything? [/quote]

Because it seems that you're begging for this system to get named despite the fact that it has been stated several times that theres nobody who is going to name it. What difference does it make if it's named or not?[/quote]

Would you went it to be part of the record, so when people walk up to you in say that no cyclones can form over the Med, you can then show them on the computer and say that they can and do? Do you also agree that we should have a up to date record of cyclones. I do.

[Derek Ortt]

anyone can number a system... only an RSMC can name it (unless you are the PMD, lol)

[Category 5]

Would you went it to be part of the record, so when people walk up to you in say that no cyclones can form over the Med, you can then show them on the computer and say that they can and do? Do you also agree that we should have a up to date record of cyclones. I do.

It doesn't need a name for that. An Atlantic storm wasn't named until 1950.

Would I like to see Med Storms and Hurricanes named? Sure why not. But as of now, nobody is going to do it.

[Tampa Bay Hurricane]

fascinating
Of course they won't, but the argument is that it was a tropical system.

[Tampa Bay Hurricane]

not official:

I'll name it Alpha. My HWD (hurricane worldwide designation).

[Chacor]

Well done on totally missing my point and turning it into an attack on me.

Some people here, including pro mets, seem to think the NHC should do something. My point is simple - they can't. Only Greece has the right to analyse this as a tropical cyclone (officially, at least).

The JTWC is not going to do so either because it is outside of their area as well, they're only tasked to cover the Pacific and Indian Oceans.

[Coredesat]

I don't think greece can upgrade a system to a cyclone. In why should I have do deal with anything?

Also Coredsat, I agree mostly with what you said. But the JTWC does not go along with the officals, they are more or less on there own. At least I think. Also they do number systems before the officals do. Coredsate, what I'm trying to say is were there is naval interest then there is the JTWC for tropical cyclones. I don't understand enough to say one way or the other about this.

Read Chacor's post above mine, and Category 5's post that you quoted. There's no reason why you shouldn't be able to understand why no one can designate this system. The only country or organization with authority here is Greece - only they, no one else, can designate this an "official" tropical cyclone. Not the NHC, Meteo-France, JTWC, you, Tampa Bay Hurricane, etc. The Mediterranean is not a recognized tropical cyclone basin. It is literally as simple as that.

At any rate, the system appears to be gone.

[TheEuropean]

The Mediterranean is not a recognized tropical cyclone basin. It is literally as simple as that.

Yes, that's right, but there were several tropical or subtropical cyclones at the Med in the past and I think it should be recognized by the grrek weather service or anybody else.

[mitchell]

The Mediterranean is not a recognized tropical cyclone basin. It is literally as simple as that.

Yes, that's right, but there were several tropical or subtropical cyclones at the Med in the past and I think it should be recognized by the grrek weather service or anybody else.

Is that to say that a system has to be named to be recognized? Why? How does calling something "Karen" or "Zeus" make it any more recognized? Either way, maybe when the NHC started using Greek names they just figured we had it covered...lol

[TheEuropean]

The Mediterranean is not a recognized tropical cyclone basin. It is literally as simple as that.

Yes, that's right, but there were several tropical or subtropical cyclones at the Med in the past and I think it should be recognized by the grrek weather service or anybody else.

Is that to say that a system has to be named to be recognized? Why? How does calling something "Karen" or "Zeus" make it any more recognized? Either way, maybe when the NHC started using Greek names they just figured we had it covered...lol

Where do I write this? I said this basin should be recognized as a tropical cyclone basin, nothing else. Yesterday a subtropical system made landfall at the spanish east coast. IMO it should be recognized as a cyclone, may be with a name, may be without one.

[littlevince]

Jeff Master about the Spanish coast system. No word about the north Lybia system.

"Medicane" (Medepression?) hits Spain
A tropical storm-like system swept over the island of Majorca in the Mediterranean on Wednesday, triggering flooding that killed two people. The storm then made landfall on the Mediterranean coast of Spain yesterday morning near the city of Murcia. The satellite presentation of the storm at landfall (Figure 1) showed well-formed spiral bands and a cloud-free center. Murcia, Spain reported sustained winds of 30 mph, gusting to 45 mph, at 14 GMT Thursday. A personal weather station in Santa Pola recorded sustained winds of 40 mph, gusting to 45 mph, and 0.68 inches of rain during passage of the storm. We have a number of other personal weather stations in the region, but none reported higher winds, or a pressure lower than 1013 mb. Radar from the Spanish Instituto Nacional de Meteorologia (Figure 2) showed some well-organized banding. The UKMET model did not indicate the storm had a warm core, so this was likely not a true tropical depression. Sea surface temperatures were about 23° C (about 1° C warmer than normal) under the storm, which is quite a bit colder than the 26.5° C usually associated with tropical storm formation. The satellite presentation suggests that the storm was probably generating a shallow warm core near the surface, and was getting some of its energy from release of latent heat--the same energy source that powers tropical cyclones. Yesterday's "Medepression" was probably a hybrid tropical/extratropical storm, and was predominantly non-tropical.

Warm-cored hybrid storms have been reported in the Mediterranean Sea before, and there is a large body of scientific literature published on the subject (see below). These storms can become quite severe and cause considerable damage. However, there is no system in place to name these storms, and the National Hurricane Center is not responsible for issuing warnings in the Mediterranean Sea. There are quite a few "Medicanes" in past years that would have earned names as subtropical storms had NHC been responsible for warnings in the Mediterranean Sea. There is concern that global warming may raise sea surface temperatures enough in the Mediterannean later this century to allow full-fledged hurricanes to form and threaten the densely populated cities that dot the coast.

Source: http://www.weatherunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/


VIS today (12:00z)

[mitchell]

[

Where do I write this? I said this basin should be recognized as a tropical cyclone basin, nothing else. Yesterday a subtropical system made landfall at the spanish east coast. IMO it should be recognized as a cyclone, may be with a name, may be without one.

You're right...i shouldn't have quoted you..i get the sense that many feel that if the system isn't named by some meterological organization of "authority", then it isn't recognized as a tropical system, or hasn't been analysed. It is what it IS not what it's NAMED. Whatever...

[HURAKAN]

This is an issue that should be taken to the WMO, present the facts, and ask for the creation of a new region.

Maybe a country that already has experience in tropical cyclones, like France, can take over naming and tracking these hybrid systems. Greece has been discussed as the country that should name these storms, but I think France's training with the cyclones is the South Indian Ocean should be the one in charge.

[WindRunner]

This is immature folks. I have seen this thead stay up towards the top of the board the past few days, but didn't realize some people were arguing for the impossible in it.

To state it simply, if it isn't yet clear: Look on the map below:



It is oficially IMPOSSIBLE for a tropical cyclone to be named outside of one of these regions. I think the boundary gets fudged in the Indian Ocean around the equator when it's occasionally necessary, and RSMC Miami will typically claim the entire North Atlantic as its official territory, but Meteo-France actually has the official high seas control east of 25W or so . . . in other words, the coast of Africa is technically out of the TPC's AOR, which means that making the Med officially TPC territory would be a real stretch, and would probably be seen as stepping on the toes of the European agencies.

[P.K.]

It is oficially IMPOSSIBLE for a tropical cyclone to be named outside of one of these regions. I think the boundary gets fudged in the Indian Ocean around the equator when it's occasionally necessary, and RSMC Miami will typically claim the entire North Atlantic as its official territory, but Meteo-France actually has the official high seas control east of 25W or so . . . in other words, the coast of Africa is technically out of the TPC's AOR, which means that making the Med officially TPC territory would be a real stretch, and would probably be seen as stepping on the toes of the European agencies.

It is actually further west than that at 35W. If anything this system that was being referred to in this thread was closer to RSMC New Delhi's AOR.

[WindRunner]

It is oficially IMPOSSIBLE for a tropical cyclone to be named outside of one of these regions. I think the boundary gets fudged in the Indian Ocean around the equator when it's occasionally necessary, and RSMC Miami will typically claim the entire North Atlantic as its official territory, but Meteo-France actually has the official high seas control east of 25W or so . . . in other words, the coast of Africa is technically out of the TPC's AOR, which means that making the Med officially TPC territory would be a real stretch, and would probably be seen as stepping on the toes of the European agencies.

It is actually further west than that at 35W. If anything this system that was being referred to in this thread was closer to RSMC New Delhi's AOR.

Well that just makes it even worse . . . the TPC is lucky lucky MeteoFrance doesn't mind them borrowing that 1000 nm of ocean or so over there for naming purposes, forget the Med.

[TheEuropean]

It is oficially IMPOSSIBLE for a tropical cyclone to be named outside of one of these regions. I think the boundary gets fudged in the Indian Ocean around the equator when it's occasionally necessary, and RSMC Miami will typically claim the entire North Atlantic as its official territory, but Meteo-France actually has the official high seas control east of 25W or so . . . in other words, the coast of Africa is technically out of the TPC's AOR, which means that making the Med officially TPC territory would be a real stretch, and would probably be seen as stepping on the toes of the European agencies.

That's not right. NHC named Vince at 19W.

[Matt-hurricanewatcher]

This is immature folks. I have seen this thead stay up towards the top of the board the past few days, but didn't realize some people were arguing for the impossible in it.

To state it simply, if it isn't yet clear: Look on the map below:



It is oficially IMPOSSIBLE for a tropical cyclone to be named outside of one of these regions. I think the boundary gets fudged in the Indian Ocean around the equator when it's occasionally necessary, and RSMC Miami will typically claim the entire North Atlantic as its official territory, but Meteo-France actually has the official high seas control east of 25W or so . . . in other words, the coast of Africa is technically out of the TPC's AOR, which means that making the Med officially TPC territory would be a real stretch, and would probably be seen as stepping on the toes of the European agencies.

You really think I don't know this already? I understand this, but also it was not about naming this. It was about treating it as a cyclone, as it should be. Also I've got great respect for the nhc, and thank god that they forecast all the way to the african coast. No one comes close to the nhc forecast; forecasters,computer models,satellite,surface data on earth. You can debate that, but I doubt you can get over your pride of your own forecast center. I understand hundred percent you feel that no ones better then your area forecast center, as I feel no ones better then the nhc. But look at the data and knowledge at the nhc. I highly doubt there is better team of hurricane forecasters on earth then the nhc. I thank god for the nhc forecasting right up to africa. But still I'm not a robot, I would not be interesting in science if I were to go along with the nhc at all times.

I wish they could forecast for the med. But they can't. It is understandable, does not mean that the people that do can't go over it, and have studies. Science is all about that. Science there is no yes or no answers, but just theory's to be proved or disproved.