Corps Says NOLA Levees Will Never Fail

[micktooth]

A spokesman for the Corps of Engineers almost guarantees levee protection to New Orleans during a major storm. Is this irresponsible? Was Katrina a 100yr storm for New Orleans? Would this spokesman feel safe enough to "ride out" the next big one within the safe confines of the levee system. What's going on here?



East Jeff levees safe, corps says
by Richard Rainey, The Times-Picayune
Wednesday May 07, 2008, 10:19 AM
A spokesman for the Army Corps of Engineers told the Jefferson Parish Council this morning that East Jefferson's hurricane protection levees are in no danger of failing during a storm big enough to hit only once in a century.
Corps project manager Brett Herr was looking to assuage fears that the levees were in weak condition, after The Times-Picayune published an April 17 story saying that the corps had concluded the lakefront levees in East Jefferson and St. Charles Parish could be at risk for catastrophic failure. The story quoted corps officials saying they had new, computer-generated data that resulted from applying more conservative design standards after Hurricane Katrina.

Despite infamous failures that flooded New Orleans, Herr said 80 miles of the levees in southeast Louisiana withstood 100-year storm conditions during Hurricane Katrina. Any damage to the levees likely came from water flowing over their crests, possibly eroding their back slopes, he said.

The corps has since set new, more exhaustive criteria to armor the levees.

[RL3AO]

Actually it was more like a 1 in 36 year storm.

[HollynLA]

The corp can say whatever they want. As we all saw with Katrina, when the levees do fail, the ACOE will not be held responsible. All they have to say is "OOPS!" I just watched a documentary on NOLA levees and they clearly showed some severe problems with the levees around Lake Pontchatrain. The concrete walls were separating from each other and many were leaning. I just hope someone would not see this info from the ACOE and decide to stay for a storm.

[MGC]

If I lived in Jefferson Parish I would not trust the levees and evacuate if another Katrina class hurricane were approaching SE Louisiana. I'd rather be stuck in traffic rather than stuck on my roof waiting on a boat or helo to rescue me.......MGC

[Eyewall]

I many times will the army crops lie to the public. When the levees they so called fixed were a patch up job

[HURAKAN]

The levees will never fail as the Titanic was unsinkable.

[TSmith274]

I many times will the army crops lie to the public. When the levees they so called fixed were a patch up job

Yep... did you happen to see the story on the materials used to replace the joint seals between some flood wall panels in St Bernard Parish? They used newspaper.... yes, newspaper. This was discovered by our local CBS affiliate, WWL. They have gone back and fixed the problem, but it makes you wonder what other "repairs" were made. And why the national media didn't report this, I have no idea.

[Ed Mahmoud]

The levees will never fail as the Titanic was unsinkable.

I just popped into this thread to make a Titanic allusion.


Too late, someone beat me to it.

[Ed Mahmoud]

Levees already failing...

[TSmith274]

Well I had to respond to that article you linked, Ed. Here's what I posted in response to all the "sky is falling" comments to that article. In fairness, I have to admit there is a possibility that I may be an employee of the Corps by Christmas as a Civil Engineer. And i have been pretty hard on them in the past, and continue to be. But my comments are still relevant. Personally I am more concerned with our outer ring of protection, and I am extremely concerned with the Industrial Canal, Harvey Canal, and MRGO until it is closed. But anyway, here was my response...

"People, calm down. Even if the wall fails during a similar storm, the resulting flood will be negligible. The only water that would get into our streets will be the water in the canal. The gates at the canal openings will be closed. The gate pumps will continue to run. Pump Station #6 will be shut down with the work load transferred to the gate pumps. This will not even slow down the drainage, as Pump Station #6 is limited by the gate pumps during a storm anyway. But Lake Ponchartrain will not again flow into our city. Same scenario for Orleans and London Ave canals. Trust me... I am one semester away from recieving my Civil Engineering degree. And I'm not leaving this city. I just read all these responses and felt a need to chime in. Our concerns should be focused on needed Industrial Canal flood control structures and incomplete westbank levees, where hundreds of thousands of New Orleanians also live."

[MGC]

Do you blame the people of New Orleans for being concerned? It is rather normal for a levee to seep during high water, but during low water? Having grown up in New Orleans I am well aware of the soil there. Soil in most places is compacted dried swamp unless you are lucky enough to be on an old ridge. This seepage after hearing there was newspaper plugging the levee in St. Benard would make one wonder on just have safe it will be in New Orleans during the next big hurricane. Personally, I'd leave when the threat is there. Lets see, in my life time there have been three hurricanes that have put at least a 20 foot storm tide ashore that have struck nearby but missed New Orleans, Betsy (20 feet in Plaquemines Parish), Camille (24 feet Harrison County) and Katrina (28 feet Harrison County). Levee failure is only one threat, over topping is a less talked about risk. Have we forgotten that Katrina overtopped the levees in St Benard and New Orleans East? Face it, the levee system in New Orleans metro area is totally inadequate in reguards to both levee hight and strength to protect life and property......MGC

[TSmith274]

Of course I don't blame the people of New Orleans for being concerned. I live here. But there were some irrational posts at the bottom of that article on NOLA.com. Concerns are fine, but people need to focus their concerns on things that can once again flood this city... the outfall canals will never flood this city again. It's impossible with gates at the mouth of these canals. It just isn't going to happen. Our concern should be with our outer ring of protection, the coastal wetlands and the navagable waterways that traverse the city. And people should also question why no attempt has been made to propose a floodwall with gates crossing the Rigolets. This would stop surges from entering Lake Ponchartrain in the first place. Construction is expected to cost a little over $1 billion. That's peanuts when you realize its benefits.

[MGC]

Gates were proposed for the Rigolets and Chef Pass back in the late 60's after Betsy. The plan was to build a outer ring of protection using highway 90 and flood gates. These plans were dropped after Camille. Camille totally destroyed all the camps out there past the levee just east of highway 11 in NO East. Camille over topped hwy 90 so I guess the COE decided the plan was too expensive and would not work. Instead, New Orleans got crappy levees. I watched the levees being built along the outflow canals. I'd drive by every day while on my way to UNO. I never thought the sheet piles would fail. They are driven quite deep into the earth but I guess I'm ignorant when considering water pressure on the levees. Never did I expect those levees to fail. I figured the ones along Lake Ponchartrain would fail. MRGO must be closed ASAP and a large levee built across the funnel. It would be a good idea to fill the darn thing in too. I only wish the best for New Orleans. I cried watching the news coverage on TV of Katrina. Kind of like 9-11, I didn't want to believe what I was seeing and hearing.......MGC

[Dionne]

I wonder how many cubic yards of earth it would take to fill MRGO? And if the plan was put into action.....where would the material come from? You know we have an enormous amount of red clay gravel available just north of the MS/LA state line to the north.

[TSmith274]

The plan is to just build a closure at the end. Over many years, it might silt in a bit, but I think it will always be there in one form or another. But a closure would prevent it from funneling storm surges.

The Rigolets flood wall was proposed in the 60's... you are correct MGC. But the environmental interests blocked the idea. They were concerned with upsetting the natural hydrology of Lake Ponchartrain. But this should not be a concern as the thing would remain open until a storm approaches, allowing tidal flow to remain as it is now. But the environmental groups have admitted that this may be necessary and they have vowed not to fight it. In fact, the Lake Ponchartrain Basin Foundation now supports the idea. They realize that it may be necessary to ensure the city's survival. But it concerns me that the proposal has not come up again. I hope it is still an option.

As for the flood walls... the sheet piling only averages about 15 feet below surface. The repaired areas go as deep as 60 feet. 15 feet is not enough, and I think the Corps realizes this. But one encouraging thing is that they are slated to replace the vast majority of I-walls with T-walls. It's going to take several years, but I do believe they are doing the right things to address it.

[MGC]

We should do like the Dutch did after their big flood in the 50's. It is the only way. Spend a few billion now or risk another Katrina and hundreds of billions in damages.....MGC

[vbhoutex]

We should do like the Dutch did after their big flood in the 50's. It is the only way. Spend a few billion now or risk another Katrina and hundreds of billions in damages.....MGC

Kind of a no brainer isn't it?

[MGC]

Yea it is but do you think they will actually do it????

[vbhoutex]

Yea it is but do you think they will actually do it????

Currently my guess is no. Many will say it is too much to spend. Too bad we aren't as forward thinking as our Dutch counterparts acrosss the pond who have proven it can work.

[Ptarmigan]

New Orleans only had strong tropical storm to category 1 sustained hurricane winds during Katrina and the levees failed.