Another "Wind vs. Water" Katrina Case

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Ixolib
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Another "Wind vs. Water" Katrina Case

#1 Postby Ixolib » Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:01 am

Here's yet another suit being brought on the whole wind vs. water issue with Katrina. Personally, I believe the testimony of Lt. Col. Richard G. Henning is a bit (okay, a lot) skewed.

One of these days, folks will realize that Katrina was a water event, not a wind event. Speaking from personal experience in Biloxi - which is obviously closer to the eye than Pascagoula - I still doubt that we had winds much over 100kt - if that. Plenty of water, yes. Wind, not so much......

Anyway, especially "interesting" - or perhaps even absurd - to me is the third to the last paragraph bolded in the story below!! Whatever.... :roll:

http://www.sunherald.com/local/v-print/story/629386.html
PASCAGOULA -- Hurricane Katrina subjected the waterfront home of James W. and Gladys Kemp Lisanby, insured by USAA, to wind gusts of 124 to 140 mph, a Hurricane Hunter and meteorologist told a Circuit Court jury Monday afternoon in Jackson County.

Lt. Col. Richard G. Henning said he gathered data from numerous sources to re-create intense tornadic-type winds at the Lisanby home 100 feet from the Mississippi Sound in Pascagoula.

"Wind comes in gusts and waves, hundreds of them, during the landfall period," said Henning, the first witness to testify for the Lisanbys in a trial that pits them against USAA, their insurer for more than 50 years.

The Lisanbys are seeking policy limits from USAA, plus punitive damages. But the insurance company's attorney, Greg Copeland, said during opening arguments that flood destroyed the home, which would cost an estimated $1.4 million to replace.

USAA paid the Lisanbys almost $45,000 for structural and contents damage to the second floor. Policy limits were $883,000. They received policy limits of $350,000 for flood damage from the National Flood Insurance Program.

"What you'll see is the lower part of this house is gone," Copeland told the jury, showing them a photograph of the 1900s home with the outer and inner walls knocked out on the first floor. On the second floor the walls, siding and roof were intact.

"The bottom got the water and the top didn't. I don't know if it was 2, 4 or 6 feet of water, but whatever it was, it was enough. This house was washed out below and it's just fine upstairs."

Attorney Tom Thrash, who offered opening arguments for the Lisanbys, said the dry contents of drawers 2 feet above the floor will prove the water was not high enough to destroy the first floor.

He said USAA adjusters had led the Lisanbys to believe they would be paid more for the damage, before most of their claim was rejected.

"The Lisanbys will tell you they feel abandoned by their insurance company," Thrash told the jury.

The Lisanbys are using expert testimony to convince the jury microbursts and other destructive winds could have caused the damage. They also had hoped to call a witness who was in his Back Bay home when the wind destroyed the first floor and left the second floor intact.

Judge Billy Bridges was disinclined to allow the testimony because 36 miles separated the two homes, but said he would hear from the witness out of the jury's presence before deciding. Copeland argued USAA would be forced to try the case of the Back Bay house if Bridges allows the testimony.

The trial resumes at 8:30 a.m. Two weeks have been set aside for the case.
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Re: Another "Wind vs. Water" Katrina Case

#2 Postby Dionne » Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:02 am

Clearly on the coast it was a water event that did the most destruction. Inland where the water did not reach it was a wind event. The winds were strong enough to destroy homes. The winds came in waves (no pun intended). You could hear them coming from miles away. The first set of winds did the most damage. After that it was a domino effect. Those of us thinking Katrina would be nothing more than a television event 90 miles south of us.....had a rude awakening coming. I don't know what our wind speeds were.......whatever it takes to shear off a telephone pole.....thats what we experienced.
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Re: Another "Wind vs. Water" Katrina Case

#3 Postby Bluefrog » Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:41 pm

I repectively disagree. I have seen video from guys at an oil rig in Pascagoula and the wind was well into the cat 3 range. On top of that I have 2 engineering reports that support the fact that the winds and microbursts destroyed my condo BEFORE the surge came in.

Katrina was a WIND and WATER event.
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Re: Another "Wind vs. Water" Katrina Case

#4 Postby MGC » Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:34 pm

Funny how the wind behaves over there in Pascagoula. Over here in Pass Christian, the wind damaged the roofs and upper floors of buildings while the water got the bottom. I had the roof of my neighbor in my backyard. It was from a two story house. Glad their house helped break the wind so mine didn't get damaged too much.....MGC
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Re: Another "Wind vs. Water" Katrina Case

#5 Postby Frank P » Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:17 pm

Yeah that wind is a funny thing.. My second floor was sheared by the surge and floated a block inland off the beach.. It still had most of my shingles on the roof with the wind turbine intact.. If fact most of the houses that survived in my neighborhood still had most if not all of the shingles still on their roofs. We did have a couple of trees knocked down from wind, mostly pines and only lost one big Oak, that's for an entire block on the front beach... If we didn't have the surge I would have had less than 1000.00 dollars damage to my house, that's a fact... our course that's a really big IF, which would have been true for most of the neighborhood except for the big Oak that fell on my neighbors house behind me... I saw NO evidence of ANY significant structural damage to any home in our neighborhood as the direct result of wind... excluding the big Oak. I'm looking at my gutted neighbors house just behind mine as I type this... it still has every shingle on the roof, even the part that faces directly south, and they are the three tab type, not the better architectural type. Guess this part of Biloxi didn't get the big microburst’s from the storm.
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Re: Another "Wind vs. Water" Katrina Case

#6 Postby MGC » Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:01 pm

So Frank, you also think wind didn't do much damage along your streach or beach. From what I've observed, from about the Biloxi/Gulfport line the futher east one goes the less wind damage is noted. I was over in Ocean Springs last week and had there been no surge, you could hardly tell a hurricane has struck. I still have trouble with HRD's wind field maps. I am convinced that the core of destructive winds in Katrina were in western Harrison County, say Long Beach and Pass Christian. Most of my neighbors roof ended up in my backyard and we lost about a dozen trees on our one little acre lot. I noticed many homes that were not destroyed by the surge to have significant roof damage. Nealy every house in the Pass that survived has a new roof. We are south of the tracks. Of course being on Mount Pass Christian may have helped with the wind damage. Sure do wish they would finish 90 soon but the Sun Herald says closer to Christmas.......MGC
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Re: Another "Wind vs. Water" Katrina Case

#7 Postby Frank P » Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:59 pm

MCG all I can speak to with any confidence is what I observed in West Biloxi... I think the winds were probably much worse in West Harrison and Hancock county but I have not really studied the actual wind affects on the structures there... its easier when you look at your neighborhood every dang day... actually Elena in 1985 probably did more wind damage in my neighborhood than Katrina.. Living on 90 is a royal pain.... only 6 more months... geesh... they are about 60% complete in front of my house... most of the curbs are poured, one lane of new asphalt, so I hope they are finished with the section in front of my house within the next couple of months... it will be nice... then they start on the new concrete board walk within the year I hope... by the end of 2009 the coast will have HWY 90 back along with a complete new boardwalk... should be really great.. at least I won't have to worry about the massive boards from the boardwalk pounding my house when the next big surge comes rolling in... concrete will SINK...
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Re: Another "Wind vs. Water" Katrina Case

#8 Postby Bluefrog » Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:00 pm

insulting posts by the 2 of you
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Re: Another "Wind vs. Water" Katrina Case

#9 Postby MGC » Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:15 pm

Insulting? Just stating my observations. I didn't mean to insult anyone. I lived in Pascagoula years ago. Move there right after Fredrick. Fredrick did a hundred times more wind damage in Pascagoula than Katrina did. But facts are facts. Wind was way worse my way and I doubt the claims the home owners are making in reguards to wind vrs. water. The only reason people have won their claims in court is because the burden of proof is on the insurance company and they can't prove which destroyed the house, the wind or the water.....MGC
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Re: Another "Wind vs. Water" Katrina Case

#10 Postby Bluefrog » Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:19 am

facts are facts and wind destroyed my home before the surge did its thing .... and that happened in pascagoula .... where your so called funny winds things happen. it's not so funny to me at all. i too went thru frederic, elena and georges
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Re: Another "Wind vs. Water" Katrina Case

#11 Postby Frank P » Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:59 pm

Look Frog I know what its like to lose everything you own.. I was not trying to insult anyone.. I was just posting the FACTS as they occurred in my neighborhood.. you can come by anytime to see exactly what happened.. I never said you didn't experience any "significant" winds in Pascagoula, I'm sure you did have the microbursts you claim, I never said it didn't happen, I only reported what occurred in Biloxi... Hurricanes have been known to develop wind "streaks" or microbursts that destroy some houses and not others, right next to each other, and sometimes its all a matter of construction also.. the wind event just didn't happen in my neighborhood.. that's all that was intended.. nothing more or less.
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Re: Another "Wind vs. Water" Katrina Case

#12 Postby MGC » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:35 pm

Did a tornado destroy your condo Frog? Where at in Goula is it?
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Re: Another "Wind vs. Water" Katrina Case

#13 Postby Ixolib » Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:10 pm

Frank P wrote:...If we didn't have the surge I would have had less than 1000.00 dollars damage to my house, that's a fact...
Yep, me too!!!

Frank P wrote:...Actually Elena in 1985 probably did more wind damage in my neighborhood than Katrina...
Yep, me too!!!

With the possibility of coming across as insulting - and for that I apologize - I will forever say that the folks who are winning their lawsuits based on "engineering" reports should consider themselves quite fortunate to have ended up with that conclusion.

For me, I know from first hand experience during the storm that the wind did very little (relatively speaking) damage to our home just south of Back Bay in central Biloxi. I also know the water was the absolute and overwhelming culprit with me - even at 19 feet above sea level - and since I had no flood insurance, I know for a fact that the $$$ out of my pocket will continue to impact my life for a very long time to come. Oh yeah, I also know what it's like to loose everything I owned and then some. The collateral damage from Katrina is more significant than most will ever realize..........
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Re: Another "Wind vs. Water" Katrina Case

#14 Postby Jason_B » Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:58 pm

I had to go to Hattiesburg shortly after the storm to help out some relatives, and the damage I saw up there....whew, I don't think you can convince me that Katrina was just a "water" storm. The wind damage there was quite impressive. Of course if you're talking about the entire event yes water did the majority of it, and I don't think anyone would disagree with that, but to me it sounds like you're saying the wind was a non-issue when I'm sure there are many folks inland that would disagree.
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Re: Another "Wind vs. Water" Katrina Case

#15 Postby bevgo » Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:31 am

I live in Ocean Springs. I saw quite a bit of WIND damage. Several buildings very near to my apartment had their fronts blown out--NO water, just wind and I watched a hotel next to my building being torn apart by wind. I agree that if you did not see the damage on the beach that it would not look like a storm had hit but you should have visited sooner. I saw many homes in the Biloxi/Gulfport area that were destroyed by wind and quite a few in Goula that were too. As a nurse I was out trying to see patients 2 weeks after the storm. 3 days after the hurricane I bugged out to central MS to escape and saw an incredible amount of damage all the way to Meridian. I don't know about the homes on the beach or back bay but I do know there were some homes inland that were not affected by the surge that were virtually destroyed and some businesses.
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Re: Another "Wind vs. Water" Katrina Case

#16 Postby Dionne » Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:26 am

After Katrina we were thrown into a risk pool when Mississippi Farm Bureau dumped us.......

We are now with Mississippi Casualty....our rates have gone up every year. I usually just pay the amount and count my blessings for even having insurance. This year I decided to read the entire policy. There has been a change in exclusions.....actually an addition. The wording is "Named Windstorm"......for which our coverage is "N".....which means No Coverage.

So this immediately gets my attention and I do some research. Here's the bottom line.....if my home is damaged by winds from a named hurricane....we are not covered. We can get hit by a tornado, straight line winds, down burst.....we're covered. But if another hurricane comes rolling in off the GOM and blows us away again.....we are not covered.

Basically what they have done is left us without any insurance during a hurricane. It's no longer a question of wind versus water.
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