NOLA Levees Discussion (Moved from 93L)

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Sean in New Orleans
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NOLA Levees Discussion (Moved from 93L)

#1 Postby Sean in New Orleans » Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:47 pm

jschlitz wrote:
Sean in New Orleans wrote: We no longer have a threat of Katrina type flooding from hurricanes...esp. systems that will not have time to form storm surges as Katrina. The city has been fortified and there are flood gates in place to block tidal flows into the cities canals.


Based on everything I have read, which is a lot I might add, I could not disagree more.


Why would I lie? The City IS fortified. St. Bernard and Plaquemines are not yet. You live in Texas...I would expect such opinion as you aren't privy to my local daily news or different meetings. Last Summer we were not ready, but, today, we are more ready. We won't be ready for 100 year storms until 2011. Yes, the negative perception still exists...time will heal that. I live in a house that had 10 feet of water inside of it with Katrina. If I'm not concerned...why should you be? All of my possessions are inside of this house....everything I own. I'm not worried. You're in Texas. Is there something you know that I don't and should be made aware of???
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#2 Postby wiggles » Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:49 pm

I live in the area and work in Metairie and know there are several places with issues. I have alot of concern the the Jefferson side of the 17th canal and several areas in Kenner.
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Re: Re:

#3 Postby jhamps10 » Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:52 pm

Sean in New Orleans wrote:
jschlitz wrote:
Sean in New Orleans wrote: We no longer have a threat of Katrina type flooding from hurricanes...esp. systems that will not have time to form storm surges as Katrina. The city has been fortified and there are flood gates in place to block tidal flows into the cities canals.


Based on everything I have read, which is a lot I might add, I could not disagree more.


Why would I lie? The City IS fortified. St. Bernard and Plaquemines are not yet. You live in Texas...I would expect such opinion as you aren't privy to my local daily news or different meetings. Last Summer we were not ready, but, today, we are more ready. We won't be ready for 100 year storms until 2011. Yes, the negative perception still exists...time will heal that. I live in a house that had 10 feet of water inside of it with Katrina. If I'm not concerned...why should you be? All of my possessions are inside of this house....everything I own. I'm not worried. You're in Texas. Is there something you know that I don't and should be made aware of???


no offense sean, I'd like to see some pictoral proof that the city would be forified to STRONGER than before, then I'd not be worried about nola at all. But all I've seen and heard is that the levees would not be back to pre-katrina conditions for 3 more years!
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Re: Re:

#4 Postby TSmith274 » Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:54 pm

Sean in New Orleans wrote:
jschlitz wrote:
Sean in New Orleans wrote: We no longer have a threat of Katrina type flooding from hurricanes...esp. systems that will not have time to form storm surges as Katrina. The city has been fortified and there are flood gates in place to block tidal flows into the cities canals.


Based on everything I have read, which is a lot I might add, I could not disagree more.


Why would I lie? The City IS fortified. St. Bernard and Plaquemines are not yet. You live in Texas...I would expect such opinion as you aren't privy to my local daily news or different meetings. Last Summer we were not ready, but, today, we are more ready. We won't be ready for 100 year storms until 2011. Yes, the negative perception still exists...time will heal that. I live in a house that had 10 feet of water inside of it with Katrina. If I'm not concerned...why should you be? All of my possessions are inside of this house....everything I own. I'm not worried. You're in Texas. Is there something you know that I don't and should be made aware of???

You aren't worried about the western wall of the Industrial Canal? In May, I'll officially be a Civil Engineer. We've studied the system extensively. Believe me, you should be worried. That wall will be extensively re-engineered and practically replaced by 2011, however. Orleans Ave canal can only hold 7 feet of water. That's practically nothing. We're dodging bullets until 2011.

We're getting off topic. Back to 93L...
Last edited by TSmith274 on Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Re:

#5 Postby robbielyn » Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:57 pm

Why would I lie? The City IS fortified. St. Bernard and Plaquemines are not yet. You live in Texas...I would expect such opinion as you aren't privy to my local daily news or different meetings. Last Summer we were not ready, but, today, we are more ready. We won't be ready for 100 year storms until 2011. Yes, the negative perception still exists...time will heal that. I live in a house that had 10 feet of water inside of it with Katrina. If I'm not concerned...why should you be? All of my possessions are inside of this house....everything I own. I'm not worried. You're in Texas. Is there something you know that I don't and should be made aware of???[/quote]



"The City IS fortified." Yeah thats what the babylonians thought when the Medes and the Persians penetrated their mote and 21ft thick wall. They were so sure of themselves they left the heavy huge door wide open. Cyrus built a dam, lowering the depth of the mote and walked right in. Hope Louisiana isn't so sure of themselves and really make the area truly safe.
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#6 Postby Sean in New Orleans » Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:01 pm

In regards to previous concerns.....

No, I'm not concerned about the western wall of the Industrial Canal. I have one concern...the eastern side of the London Ave. Canal. That would be my only concern....and that canal now has floodgates. Believe me, I live in the bottom of the bowl. I've done my homework. I've got my life invested in this area. I moved here 4 months ago from the high ground (Uptown). I "ain't," stupid. I'm proud to be in a recovery area that I know is no longer threatened. Now, if people in other areas of the country that watch CNN seem to feel differently are more concerned, that's cool. That's fine. I'll stick to what I know. Now, back to the system.
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Re: Re:

#7 Postby jasons2k » Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:24 pm

Sean in New Orleans wrote:
jschlitz wrote:
Sean in New Orleans wrote: We no longer have a threat of Katrina type flooding from hurricanes...esp. systems that will not have time to form storm surges as Katrina. The city has been fortified and there are flood gates in place to block tidal flows into the cities canals.


Based on everything I have read, which is a lot I might add, I could not disagree more.


Why would I lie? The City IS fortified. St. Bernard and Plaquemines are not yet. You live in Texas...I would expect such opinion as you aren't privy to my local daily news or different meetings. Last Summer we were not ready, but, today, we are more ready. We won't be ready for 100 year storms until 2011. Yes, the negative perception still exists...time will heal that. I live in a house that had 10 feet of water inside of it with Katrina. If I'm not concerned...why should you be? All of my possessions are inside of this house....everything I own. I'm not worried. You're in Texas. Is there something you know that I don't and should be made aware of???


You can start with the Nat'l Geographic article from a couple of months ago. MRGO is still a surge channel straight into the city. I don't have to LIVE in NOLA to keep up. I was there for a week last year when the Times-Picayune ran a weeklong series on post-Katrina. I picked-up every copy. The Times-Picayune and WWL are a mouseclick away. But that's not the place to find out anyways....the "official" analysis is never what's really happening behind the scenes. My wife works in the insurance industry and LA and coastal MS are in her territory. She is there at least twice a month talking to the largest commercial agents in town along with the Independent Insurance Agent boards of LA, MS, and NOLA. These are the very people that write policies for property there. These are the largest agents. She keeps up (and me in the loop) with what's going on because she has to. And believe me, if there is one industry that really knows what's happening, it's the insurance industry. They have access to things that you'll never see published in the paper. I'll put it this way, my wife's counterpart who actually live(d) in NOLA and offices in Metaire packed everything and moved to Hammond. Do really think after all these years the bureacracy over there finally got it right? If you do, I beg to differ. We can take this OT if you like...but that's my $.02 and I'm fairly well-connected when it comes to this.
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#8 Postby Sean in New Orleans » Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:39 pm

From jschlitz:
You can start with the Nat'l Geographic article from a couple of months ago. MRGO is still a surge channel straight into the city. I don't have to LIVE in NOLA to keep up. I was there for a week last year when the Times-Picayune ran a weeklong series on post-Katrina. I picked-up every copy. The Times-Picayune and WWL are a mouseclick away. But that's not the place to find out anyways....the "official" analysis is never what's really happening behind the scenes. My wife works in the insurance industry and LA and coastal MS are in her territory. She is there at least twice a month talking to the largest commercial agents in town along with the Independent Insurance Agent boards of LA, MS, and NOLA. These are the very people that write policies for property there. These are the largest agents. She keeps up (and me in the loop) with what's going on because she has to. And believe me, if there is one industry that really knows what's happening, it's the insurance industry. They have access to things that you'll never see published in the paper. I'll put it this way, my wife's counterpart who actually live(d) in NOLA and offices in Metaire packed everything and moved to Hammond. Do really think after all these years the bureacracy over there finally got it right? If you do, I beg to differ. We can take this OT if you like...but that's my $.02 and I'm fairly well-connected when it comes to this.[/quote]
From Sean In New Orleans
Are you referring to the National Geographic arcticle that had a professor state that he "tasted," salt water when he put his finger in the ground of a puddle and said the wall was leaking? LOL. I believe it was found out within a week that the salt water was coming from a Sewerage & Water Board leak that was bringing salt to the surface from the original flood. I truly appreciate your concern. And please don't mention insurance agencies to me...they are the most uninformed, manipulative entities out there. The bottom line is $$$. We learned that long ago. As said, I've done all of my homework, made the proper phone calls to the federal government (actually my attorney made the calls). I'm not concerned. After what happened with Katrina, it is completely understandable that it will take a number of years for "outsiders," to learn the truth...but they will. Those of us that live here, walk around daily, watch recovery, and attend neighborhood meetings weekly are privy to the latest information. Hence, I live where I live. New Orleans will never flood again from a hurricane unless it is from water from the sky. It won't come from storm surge. I'm proud of what your wife is privy too....I'm privy to stuff too. That's why I moved my entire homestead to Mid-City. Your in another part of the country. We expect this type of post-Katrina attitude in New Orleans for a number of years. We've already discussed this very issue in neighborhood meetings, as well. Trust...no stone is unturned in this city with locals. But, thanks again for the conern and I mean that.....Now PLEASE back to the system.
Last edited by Sean in New Orleans on Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#9 Postby jasons2k » Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:46 pm

Sean, I live in Houston, not Seattle. Half of your city still lives HERE. Last year we had Re-elect Ray Nagin billboards HERE, on I-45. I keep up with what's going on. I don't want to beat a dead horse but if that's what you believe, then yes, "concern" would be an understatement...
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#10 Postby Sean in New Orleans » Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:00 pm

jschlitz wrote:Sean, I live in Houston, not Seattle. Half of your city still lives HERE. Last year we had Re-elect Ray Nagin billboards HERE, on I-45. I keep up with what's going on. I don't want to beat a dead horse but if that's what you believe, then yes, "concern" would be an understatement...


Please let it go...I know about the billboards. And I know that there are about 12,000 of our poor still in Houston as we are tearing down our housing projects and they can't return until 2012. I know it. I really do. And I know half of New Orleans isn't in Houston. OK. Let's get back to the system. This really is no longer about Katrina and New Orleans recovery. That is for another board on this forum for this subject. But, at the same time, I can't, as a New Orleanian, let you misinform the general public about post-Katrina recovery in New Orleans. I live it. You live in The Woodlands, TX. Thanks.
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#11 Postby jasons2k » Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:39 pm

We can continue here if needed. There are a lot more than 12,000 "poor" that live here. There are countless business professionals, etc., that have relocated here - most permanently. A guy that sits two desks down from me has lived his whole life in NOLA. He just sold his old house, finally, in Jefferson Parish.

To say that NOLA will flood again is hardly "misinforming" the public. Saying that the city will never flood again is denying the truth. The levees aren't ready, even you admitted they won't be at pre-Katrina levels until 2011 (if, IF they get it right) and the city is sinking. The Corps freely admits that even if the entire levee system is fully-funded and built-out, it STILL will not protect the city from a Cat. 4 or 5 surge. I don't have to live there to know that.
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Re: NOLA Levees Discussion (Moved from 93L)

#12 Postby jasons2k » Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:31 pm

This is from another thread but pertinent here too:

TSmith274 wrote:
Who still needs help? Well, everyone really. People also need to know the truth about the levees... that they are being fixed on the cheap. Many of them should be replaced with superior designs... which DO exist. But, the will is not there to do it... yet. We need to focus more on coastal restoration, and we need to start yesterday. And lastly, we need a surge wall at the Rigolets at the eastern shore of Lake Ponchartrain. This would protect New Orleans from hurricane related flooding FOREVER, with the exception of the west bank of the metro area. The cost would be about $1.6 Billion. Louisiana needs to make it a priority in these times of budget surpluses. Quite literally, New Orleans wouldn't even need levees along Lake Ponchartrain or the outfall canals. These levees would become secondary protection. Development along the shores of Lake Ponchartrain would BOOM with the eliminated flooding and surge threat. Also, this new wall is cheaper than fixing the outfall canals and lake levees. It really is a no-brainer.

It really is amazing... hearing what my professors say about the levees. They are all disgusted by it. And after you study the subject for a couple years, you get disgusted too. There are some truly unbelievable oversights at the hands of the Corp. Unbelievable stuff. People who live in New Orleans see it on the news on occasion. But we talk about it every day. There are flood walls in this city that just come to an abrupt end. No action taken to complete them. It's just mind boggling.
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Re: NOLA Levees Discussion (Moved from 93L)

#13 Postby HollynLA » Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:04 pm

Sean, if you really believe that New Orleans will NEVER flood again from surge and the city is completely safe, you are either a very gullable or neive person. Wow, I just don't know where to begin with how to reply to some of the thing you typed.

Also, I know the chief engineer of the ACOE New Orleans division. Isn't it ironic that he lives on the northshore :lol:
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#14 Postby TSmith274 » Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:03 pm

It is not healthy for the citizens of this city to blindly trust the Corp. I have lived here all my life as well. In the past two years, I have been working toward my Civil Engineering degree at UNO. I don't know how much clearer I can make it... we aren't there yet, we deserve better protection, and better designs and ideas do exist. It is going to take pressure from the citizens, not only from N.O., but around the country to push for better protection. In my opinion, 100 year protection isn't enough either. The Netherlands protects for a minimum 500 year event. Sentencing my city... a major American city... to death by flood every 100 years is not good enough for me, and it shouldn't be good enough for any American.
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