ATL: IRMA - Models

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miamijaaz
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Models

#9121 Postby miamijaaz » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:51 pm

gatorcane wrote:Updated spaghetti. Note EURO not shown (west of the tightly clustered guidance) and similar to the UKMET as it comes into the Keys from the south:

Image


Euro would be the western outlier it looks like, if you ignore the NAVGEM. That's surprising (to me at least).
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Models

#9122 Postby SEASON_CANCELED » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:52 pm

Jevo wrote:
SEASON_CANCELED wrote:the cone will shift. that is your best model, and its moved significantly west. Even if you split the difference. Its still way west
It's moved 80 miles W at 72 hours... NHC is not going to make a drastic forecast alteration based on 1 run. Perhaps watches go up, but you'd be more likely to see a change once they have the late GFS and Euro ensembles. They are also utilizing on the FSU Super ensemble which is in the GFS camp right now.



We will see. I disagree. Like I said Euro your best player. Something is changing in the air ahead of it. UKMET also see's something.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Models

#9123 Postby p1nheadlarry » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:52 pm

NDG wrote:Wind gusts forecast by the 12z Euro.

Image


mph?
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Models

#9124 Postby SunnyThoughts » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:53 pm

Is the g-I'v. Plane still sampling atmospheric conditions as well as those balloons going up every 6 hours as they were the last couple days, in order to incorporate into model outputs.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Models

#9125 Postby gatorcane » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:54 pm

18Z SWFMD spaghetti. Indeed Euro is a western model inbetween the NAVGEM and UKMET with the GFS, HWRF, and CMC on the right (Euro not shown below):

Image
Last edited by gatorcane on Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Models

#9126 Postby NDG » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:56 pm

p1nheadlarry wrote:
NDG wrote:Wind gusts forecast by the 12z Euro.

Image


mph?


Yes.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Models

#9127 Postby Blown Away » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:56 pm

gatorcane wrote:Updated spaghetti. Note EURO not shown (west of the tightly clustered guidance) and similar to the UKMET as it comes into the Keys from the south:

Image


Wow, hard to discount that tight cluster, but the Euro is King... Glad I'm not making track decisions...
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Models

#9128 Postby CaptinCrunch » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:58 pm

NAM and UMET are close to the EURO
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Models

#9129 Postby NDG » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:58 pm

TheStormExpert wrote:
NDG wrote:Wind gusts forecast by the 12z Euro.

Image

What could we expect in Palm Beach Gardens (just north of West Palm Beach)?


Is showing wind gusts in the 100-110 mph.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Models

#9130 Postby CaptinCrunch » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:04 pm

Harvey made landfall with 135 mph sustained winds at the EW, Irma will be stronger at Landfall.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Models

#9131 Postby ozonepete » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:07 pm

SEASON_CANCELED wrote:the cone will shift. that is your best model, and its moved significantly west. Even if you split the difference. Its still way west


The cone and the track are based on so many models that even a specially added weight to the Euro would not shift the track back west noticeably. It's also starting to be the only model that far west so it's hard to see them adding weight to it.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Models

#9132 Postby Steve » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:07 pm

skufful,

It makes complete sense. Sorry to anyone else who's seen me post about this since last week, but the biggest player in the game was always going to be high pressure coming down from Canada. It is the reason that everyone was asking why Irma went NW and WNW once inland vs. NE or ENE out. The reason was the retreating trough would be replaced by high pressure seeping/oozing down from the north which would create an umbrella situation where there was high pressure to the NE, N and NW of Irma as it was inland. 06Z models this morning that were biased east (NAM, GFS) started to show the retreating trough ahead of the high pressure coming down smaller and farther east.

The best way I can explain it because I'm a completely lay person is to remember that high pressure flows clockwise. The Canadian high is at the surface, but it's also aloft except to the west where the small shortwaves/upper lows are embedded and coming down from Montana like Aric was talking about on Sunday or Monday.

Red is High Pressure on the EC Height Anomalies:
https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysi ... 0&ypos=558

^^ That run is at 500mb or approximately 18,000 feet or just over 3 miles up. That's not terribly high - say about halfway to where the jets usually fly. But it's generally a good indicator of synoptics.

Now if you look at the 200mb stream flows which is around 39,000 feet (roughly 7.4 miles up), you will see the higher up setup and stream flow. I'm not necessarily implying that Irma will be guided at the 200mb level. But you can see where the weather is going. For this run, we'll have to use the Canadian 200mb winds since Tropical Tidbits doesn't get the 200mb on the EC. The CMC won't be exactly right, but it's close enough to make the point.

https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysi ... 0&ypos=310

Let me know if this doesn't make sense to you and I'll try to clarify it.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Models

#9133 Postby SEASON_CANCELED » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:08 pm

CaptinCrunch wrote:Harvey made landfall with 135 mph sustained winds at the EW, Irma will be stronger at Landfall.


I think the fact that harvey stalled was the bigger issue. The winds did not do an insane amount of damage proportional to the flooding. I dont see rain being a huge factor with this one. Most of the models show it zipping up the state at a good clip but those winds are going to be inland and you have alot of rural old country that is going to get creamed.


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Re: ATL: IRMA - Models

#9134 Postby JPmia » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:10 pm

The EURO's latest run will just shift their track a little to the left of the last point, which will most likely be directly over SE FL again and possibly have the eastern eyewall over the metro areas. Indeed, worst case scenario. In fact, when the State EOC does their hurricane drill every year, this track is in general their worst case scenario.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Models

#9135 Postby skufful » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:11 pm

Steve wrote:skufful,

It makes complete sense. Sorry to anyone else who's seen me post about this since last week, but the biggest player in the game was always going to be high pressure coming down from Canada. It is the reason that everyone was asking why Irma went NW and WNW once inland vs. NE or ENE out. The reason was the retreating trough would be replaced by high pressure seeping/oozing down from the north which would create an umbrella situation where there was high pressure to the NE, N and NW of Irma as it was inland. 06Z models this morning that were biased east (NAM, GFS) started to show the retreating trough ahead of the high pressure coming down smaller and farther east.

The best way I can explain it because I'm a completely lay person is to remember that high pressure flows clockwise. The Canadian high is at the surface, but it's also aloft except to the west where the small shortwaves/upper lows are embedded and coming down from Montana like Aric was talking about on Sunday or Monday.

Red is High Pressure on the EC Height Anomalies:
https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysi ... 0&ypos=558

^^ That run is at 500mb or approximately 18,000 feet or just over 3 miles up. That's not terribly high - say about halfway to where the jets usually fly. But it's generally a good indicator of synoptics.

Now if you look at the 200mb stream flows which is around 39,000 feet (roughly 7.4 miles up), you will see the higher up setup and stream flow. I'm not necessarily implying that Irma will be guided at the 200mb level. But you can see where the weather is going. For this run, we'll have to use the Canadian 200mb winds since Tropical Tidbits doesn't get the 200mb on the EC. The CMC won't be exactly right, but it's close enough to make the point.

https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysi ... 0&ypos=310

Let me know if this doesn't make sense to you and I'll try to clarify it.


Thank you for your response, I will study on it.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Models

#9136 Postby RL3AO » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:14 pm

The 12z Euro gives me more confidence about the NHC being pretty close to correct. Near worst case scenario for Miami.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Models

#9137 Postby tgenius » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:16 pm

Irma is expected to pick up forward speed when she goes north right? Trying to roughly calculate how long we will be in hurricane force winds time wise.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Models

#9138 Postby NDG » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:17 pm

12z Euro Simulated Radar forecast of Irma.

Image
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Models

#9139 Postby tolakram » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:22 pm

I have locked this topic temporarily.

Some people are posting questions that belong in the discussion thread, please post there and not here, this thread is for model discussion only.

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Re: ATL: IRMA - Models

#9140 Postby Dean4Storms » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:46 pm

Does anyone know if the models actually take into account that a Storm center moving over the Everglades is actually moving over warm water?
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