ATL: FLORENCE - Post-Tropical - Discussion

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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#4681 Postby Hurricane Andrew » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:03 am

Scanning Facebook, the sheer amount of Fire Department USAR/SWR (Swift-Water Rescue) teams that pre-deployed in is absolutely staggering. I wouldn't be surprised if it set some sort of record. Louisiana, New York, California, all have sent teams. I know NY TF-1 has members there. (New York has two USAR Task Forces; TF-1 is made up of members of the NYPD and NYFD, while TF-2 is made up of volunteers from all over the state, including firefighters and paramedics/EMTs.)
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#4682 Postby PandaCitrus » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:06 am

This is what storm surge looks like. The next time there is an evacuation order people should watch this video and think long and hard if they really want to play russian roulette with their lives.

 https://twitter.com/EricaRakow/status/1040537023101190144


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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#4683 Postby artist » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:06 am

Hurricane Andrew wrote:
artist wrote:Brandon Clement said the Cajun Navy has some people there helping rescue.

Not in these winds they aren't. They might be staging as well, but any fishing boat in 100mph gusts is going to have a really, really bad day.

Best thing for the CN and friends to do is report to local EOCs and request tasking. If the EOC deems that they need the help, they'll give them an assignment, and organize them under their own Incident Command System.

In some areas the winds are not as high as others. And you do recall last year. If they felt they could make it they would go, and never had a major incident.
And New Berns mayor said they would accept any help.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#4684 Postby southerngale » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:14 am

artist wrote:
KC7NEC wrote:This may come off cold and harsh but the reality is as long as governments continue to rescue people putting first responders lives at stake people will not evacuate. People know that deep down if they are that 1 in a 1000 case when the odds stack up against them there wl be help coming.

MANDATORY EVACUATION does not need to mean you have to leave... What it does need to start meaning, and sticking to it is that your life is in your hands. We are not sending ANY help during a certain time period of time.

I know as humans we all have compassion for one another but people need to learn, and understand personal responsibilities and we collectively need to quit sending help into these type situations so people understand there is no back up safety net.

Not a Official or meteorologist. All opinions and statements are my own. Consult the experts.


Unfortunately, in the case of Harvey, and others, their appeared no need to evacuate certain areas, as they should be able to handle the projected conditions, and thusly were not told to evacuate. In those cases the need is immediate and no fault of their own.

In the case of Harvey... I was not in a Hurricane Warning or Watch, etc. I do not live in a flood zone. By the time a mandatory evacuation was issued for my area, there was no way out. I was watching the models, reading Storm2k, etc., but was still trapped in rising waters that flooded many miles in every direction from my house, and was underwater over a week. I am forever grateful for the people who rescued us.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#4685 Postby tolakram » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:15 am

Might be a wobble but it appears the eye will re-emerge offshore in an hour or so.

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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#4686 Postby jlauderdal » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:15 am

Hurricane Andrew wrote:
artist wrote:Brandon Clement said the Cajun Navy has some people there helping rescue.

Not in these winds they aren't. They might be staging as well, but any fishing boat in 100mph gusts is going to have a really, really bad day.

Best thing for the CN and friends to do is report to local EOCs and request tasking. If the EOC deems that they need the help, they'll give them an assignment, and organize them under their own Incident Command System.
i know the cajun navy is trying to help but one of these days there is going to be a cajun navy disaster and the shine will wear off quickly.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#4687 Postby setxweathergal64 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:18 am

southerngale wrote:Ever heard of the app Zello? I hadn't, but it was praised by the Cajun Navy on Fox News this morning as one of the resources they use to rescue people who need rescuing. I just joined. You can text comments or speak, but voice should only be used for emergencies and rescue information.
I've already heard many requests for rescue, including 2 kids from a fallen tree, another man from a fallen tree, a lady saying she hasn't been able to reach family (friends?) in hours after they said water was approaching their house, and multiple flooding requests.

My mom and I left to evacuate to my brothers house on Sun Aug 27th for Harvey which was a few days before the worst of it. I vividly remember laying in bed one night crying an ugly cry for hours listening to the rescues on this app.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#4688 Postby artist » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:18 am

jlauderdal wrote:
Hurricane Andrew wrote:
artist wrote:Brandon Clement said the Cajun Navy has some people there helping rescue.

Not in these winds they aren't. They might be staging as well, but any fishing boat in 100mph gusts is going to have a really, really bad day.

Best thing for the CN and friends to do is report to local EOCs and request tasking. If the EOC deems that they need the help, they'll give them an assignment, and organize them under their own Incident Command System.
i know the cajun navy is trying to help but one of these days there is going to be a cajun navy disaster and the shine will wear off quickly.


They actually sent teams for training this year.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#4689 Postby jlauderdal » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:18 am

southerngale wrote:
artist wrote:
KC7NEC wrote:This may come off cold and harsh but the reality is as long as governments continue to rescue people putting first responders lives at stake people will not evacuate. People know that deep down if they are that 1 in a 1000 case when the odds stack up against them there wl be help coming.

MANDATORY EVACUATION does not need to mean you have to leave... What it does need to start meaning, and sticking to it is that your life is in your hands. We are not sending ANY help during a certain time period of time.

I know as humans we all have compassion for one another but people need to learn, and understand personal responsibilities and we collectively need to quit sending help into these type situations so people understand there is no back up safety net.

Not a Official or meteorologist. All opinions and statements are my own. Consult the experts.


Unfortunately, in the case of Harvey, and others, their appeared no need to evacuate certain areas, as they should be able to handle the projected conditions, and thusly were not told to evacuate. In those cases the need is immediate and no fault of their own.

In the case of Harvey... I was not in a Hurricane Warning or Watch, etc. I do not live in a flood zone. By the time a mandatory evacuation was issued for my area, there was no way out. I was watching the models, reading Storm2k, etc., but was still trapped in rising waters that flooded many miles in every direction from my house, and was underwater over a week. I am forever grateful for the people who rescued us.
rescuing people during a flash flooding event is different than a hurricane when winds are high and we knew it was coming for days and they were in an evac zone...you choose to stay it should be at your own risk and not the risk of rescuers..happy to hear you made it out of harvey
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#4690 Postby southerngale » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:18 am

Hurricane Andrew wrote:
southerngale wrote:
Hurricane Andrew wrote:Southerngale, have you tried passing that info on to a local EOC or 911 center? They have resources pre-staged; once the winds die down (usually 50mph is cap for water rescues), they will be deploying SWR/USAR teams en masse.

I don't know who to call. I tried 911 who said I had to call them locally and they gave me a number. I called that number and it was a recording saying to call 911 if I had an emergency. These people on Zello seem to be on the ball, so I'm praying they get help. I'll keep trying, though.

Fair enough. Some of the guys probably have local contacts. I don't know what county you are referencing, but most counties have an Emergency Operations Center that is manned during storms. Local FD/EMS/PD will coordinate out of there. You could try North Carolina DPS, and get a number for state EOC, but they might not have direct links to county assets at this time. As for the local 911 number, I assume they gave you the official nonemergency number, which probably isn't active right now if all the dispatchers are busy elsewhere.

I mean...I'm not on the ground there. My insight is limited to my own training and experience. I do know that disaster response will in the near term be run by local organizations (FDs in their district, etc), and in the long-term, most likely by FEMA and/or State DPS' Emergency Management. Rescues would fall under the former.

In all likelihood, they have gotten the information, and are just limited to staging assets until the winds come down. Hurricane force gusts will flip over a RHIB real quick.

I asked about it. They are dispatching help and from the comments, seem to be doing a great job with follow up.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#4691 Postby weunice » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:19 am

FWIW, the Cajun Navy coordinates WITH official outlets in things like this. It's not just a bunch of cowboys trying to get in on the action. In fact, our town which suffered during the flooding in Louisiana in 2016 has made coordination with the Cajun Navy part of our official disaster plan. With their experience now, they certainly know what they are doing.

** To clarify, there is at least one Cajun Navy group coordinated enough to have worked out disaster plan details with our local officials.
Last edited by weunice on Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#4692 Postby Hurricane Andrew » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:24 am

weunice wrote:FWIW, the Cajun Navy coordinates WITH official outlets in things like this. It's not just a bunch of cowboys trying to get in on the action. In fact, our town which suffered during the flooding in Louisiana in 2016 has made coordination with the Cajun Navy part of our official disaster plan.

There are multiple Cajun Navy factions, it's not a coordinated group. If one wants to make a volunteer rescue group, they should be sponsored, trained, equipped, and vetted/approved by an existing professional agency; a local fire department, USAR task force, or even state disaster response center. That will integrate them into the existing NIMS/ICS framework, and allow them access to specialized equipment, training, and protection from rogue elements. The whole idea of disaster response, mutual aid plans, etc, is to have everything in place before the storm, like your town has done. But these elements need to be made official, because that will maximize their usage and safety. I'm not saying to bench them; volunteers have long been a part of first response and disaster relief (I have done both personally), I'm just saying that there is a way things need to be done to maintain continuity and effectivity of operations.

Just my two cents. I'm not exactly the world's most experienced first responder, so, take my input for what you deem it to be worth.

Back to Florence, here is the 1230z Outage Update
North Carolina: 429,520
South Carolina: 14,778
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#4693 Postby jlauderdal » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:25 am

artist wrote:
jlauderdal wrote:
Hurricane Andrew wrote:Not in these winds they aren't. They might be staging as well, but any fishing boat in 100mph gusts is going to have a really, really bad day.

Best thing for the CN and friends to do is report to local EOCs and request tasking. If the EOC deems that they need the help, they'll give them an assignment, and organize them under their own Incident Command System.
i know the cajun navy is trying to help but one of these days there is going to be a cajun navy disaster and the shine will wear off quickly.


They actually sent teams for training this year.
good, that will help mitigate the peril they are facing..florence making a strong move to come offshore soon, folks in southport going to get the eye from the north, how odd is that?
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#4694 Postby AlabamaDave » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:28 am

I always wonder about people who don't feel like they have the means to evacuate and decide to take the risk... or very elderly and/or mentally ill people who can't really comprehend what's coming. Hopefully communities have plans to find and help these folks. I know a lot of people who choose to stay are just making dumb calls, but there are people who are legitimately incapacitated and don't have family or friends to help them. We have some family members who chose to stay in St. Bernard Parish, Louisiana during Katrina because they felt like they didn't have the means to leave. It nearly cost them their lives (luckily they were able to get into a fishing boat as the water rushed in), but people who are financially stressed, don't have cars, etc. will roll the dice for situations where middle class people can call up the Hampton Inn 200 miles away and make a reservation for $400 a night.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#4695 Postby PandaCitrus » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:30 am

105mph wind gust at Wilmington Airport. Second highest in history.

 https://twitter.com/nymetrowx/status/1040578105700745217


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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#4696 Postby xironman » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:31 am

The eye is running right down the beach
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#4697 Postby Hurricane Andrew » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:33 am

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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#4698 Postby chris_fit » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:35 am

The Weather Channel saying it's veering right - might go back over water
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#4699 Postby Hurricane Andrew » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:36 am

chris_fit wrote:The Weather Channel saying it's veering right - might go back over water

I do believe you mean left, my good sir. :D
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#4700 Postby chris_fit » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:38 am

Hurricane Andrew wrote:
chris_fit wrote:The Weather Channel saying it's veering right - might go back over water

I do believe you mean left, my good sir. :D


No - Right/East/South? as in further ---> than the official forecast. Could be a wobble, but after southport they say it might go back over water which might slow down the weakening.
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