How do we make S2K better?

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Ed Mahmoud

Re: How do we make S2K better?

#121 Postby Ed Mahmoud » Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:16 pm

Since there is a rule against politics on threads, and global warming has obvious political connotations, I think global warming as a thread topic should either be eliminated completely, or a limited amount of politics (no insults, threats, curses, etc) be allowed.


Edit:


There was about 3 more paragraphs, examples of what I consider rather one sided moderator application of the 'no politics' rule to the AGW threads, and while I am quite willing to PM this to any mod or admin, or anyone else, who asks, even though I think it is quite politely written and factually based, perhaps discretion being the better part of valor and all, I won't post it on an open thread.
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#122 Postby Ed Mahmoud » Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:48 pm

Derek Ortt wrote:restrictions on wishcasting like we had 3 years ago. I remember then, it was not tolerated, but the restrictions, IMO, has become a little more (I'd even tolerate posts like those from PAUK on the old GOPBI... his wishcasts wer nothing like some of the current ones)


Now, wishcasting hurricanes is wrong, especially big ones to populated areas, but how can you blame anyone for hoping against hope that the hour 288 forecast of the 6Z GFS showing between a quarter and half inch of precip in 12 hours over Houston, with the 540 dm thickness and 850 mb freezing line South of the city verifies? That kind of wishcasting just can't be helped.
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#123 Postby Derek Ortt » Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:55 pm

regarding the wishcasting

please make it stop and yesterday!. I have to be honest, all of the wishcasting that goes on here (and it is now far worse than what we saw from posters such as PAUK at GOPBI) is making the forum less enjoyable than it was 4-5 years ago. I'd like to see the old no wishcasting rule re-implemented or enforced again.

Just my opinion and observation, of course
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#124 Postby mf_dolphin » Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:49 pm

Ok for sake of discussion, how do you define wishcasting Derek?
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#125 Postby Derek Ortt » Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:14 pm

I would define wishcasting as the "forecasting" of a tropical cyclone toward or away a particular area (either one's home town, toward the USA, or toward land in general), or forecasting an unreasonable intensity, despite meteorological conditions indicating something else.

If one truly does not understand, and they post a forecast with a disclaimer, that's OK. But what gets to me are those who despite having the situation being explained to them by the mets (not just me, but by other mets), they still continue on with a doomsday type forecast.

It can also apply in the reverse... forecasting the storm to go somewhere else when it is coming right at you

This is one thing that we did not see in 2004 and 2005. Those times, IMO, were the most enjoyable for the board.

Of course, if the other members see it differently, well, the USA is still a democracy and I will have been outvoted
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Re: How do we make S2K better?

#126 Postby mf_dolphin » Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:12 pm

Unfortunately there are times when even the Pro Mets disagree sometimes by hundreds of miles so where do you draw the line is the million dollar question. When you add the part about "toward some one's home area" then you add the difficulty of trying to determine the motive's behind a person's thoughts or ill phrased question. Our challenge at S2K has always been to make the site enjoyable and informative for everyone from the concerned but non-weather knowledgable member to the Professional Tropical Specialist. Add to that almost every education level and personality type and you have the wonderful mix that is in fact STORM2K. I don't profess to have all the answers to the challenges this group embodies but I wouldn't change much o be quite honest. Derek I realize the frustrations this can cause for you and our other Pros but I also understand the other side of the coin. People get so many and often conflicting information from friends, local media sound bytes and even other professional outlets that it can be quite confusing on occasions.

I would like to remind everyone that the "Report Post" button can and should be used to report posts that are viewed by the reader to need attention. The staff tries very hard to take a look at these posts and make a sometimes judgement call as quickly as possible. We can't always get back to the reporting person with a response but if you watch I'm sure you'll see some posts just disappear. We've always had a policy to keep disiplinary actions private between the staff and the individual but rest assured that we do take action.

Now for a final comment, the problem that I have personally with the term "wishcasting" or "wonderful forecaster" is that it shows that a determination of motive has been made. I don't have a crystal ball into each poster's head nor do I want one. I assume that everyone on this board has a genuine desire to understand the situation as it exists at any point in time. They may be reluctant to accept it sometimes but that's up to each of us to help according to our own abilities. The further out we go in time from the current position/intensity the more variables come into play and therefore more uncertainty and exponentially more "possible" outcomes.

Derek, you and the rest of the Pros here do an outstanding job of helping the rest of us and I'm personally greatful to each and every one of you. I say this not only for the board's sake but because I make decisions for my own family based on the knowledge I gain from here each and every season. I've received dozens of e-mails and PM's over the years from people that have avoided potentially life threatening situations beause of the information they got from this forum. For all of the challenges and frustration, just one of those messages makes it all worthwhile for me and I hope you.
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Re: How do we make S2K better?

#127 Postby vbhoutex » Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:13 pm

AMEN!!!! I could not have said it better if I had tried for days on end. I too have recieved those emails and pms and 1 of those makes it all worth my while!!
As far as the wishcasting and for that matter any other matters that need attention do as Marshall asked. Please provide us with details if the "problem" may not be obvious to us. We do everything we can to keep this an enjoyable environment for EVERYONE, but we can not do that without your input.
Quite honestly, I have seen a lot less wishcasting than I am used to, but I may just be missing something here. What I have seen is more personal forecasts being tried. When that forecast goes against what meteorological conditions suggest or what our pro forecasters have said, that doesn't mean it is wishcasting. It may mean that the person disagrees with what the pros see or may not understand everything that is impacting the forecast they are going against. Determining what is wishcasting and what is personal interpretation is sometime difficult, but we do our best. There truly can be a fine line between the two. I have even been accused of wishcasting when indeed what I was seeing and interpretating in the information available told me that my "forecast" was correct. It wasn't thank goodness, but to some it appeared to be wishcasting.
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Thanks!

#128 Postby Clint_TX » Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:55 am

Thanks for keeping this board and site going!
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Re: How do we make S2K better?

#129 Postby knotimpaired » Sun Aug 10, 2008 7:46 pm

Personally the most offensive wishcasting is when everyone high fives, jumps in joy and grabs a beverage at a invest, to watch potential devastation to a particular island or location.

Mind you most of them live in the mid-west and are not touched, while many of us cringe at the thought of it.

:double: When winter comes and we see a blizzard heading to their area we do not wish them harm. :double:

This has been a topic of conversation many times on our island, so I speak for many.
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#130 Postby HURAKAN » Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:06 pm

No one wants the destruction of any island or country, and no one has said that they would like to see a Cat. 5 hurricane to destroy an island or country. Many of our members, including myself, have stated that we would like to track cyclones but we understand the consequences when they hit land. Furthermore, except for fairy tales, wishing never does anything.
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Re: How do we make S2K better?

#131 Postby vbhoutex » Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:23 pm

knotimpaired wrote:Personally the most offensive wishcasting is when everyone high fives, jumps in joy and grabs a beverage at a invest, to watch potential devastation to a particular island or location.

Mind you most of them live in the mid-west and are not touched, while many of us cringe at the thought of it.

:double: When winter comes and we see a blizzard heading to their area we do not wish them harm. :double:

This has been a topic of conversation many times on our island, so I speak for many.


I have to agree with Hurakan on this. No one wishes destruction on anyone or any island or country represented on this site(and if they do they will be banned immediately). Many weather geeks(and that is what the majority of the people on this site are) do get excited about the potentials of these systems and are doing their best to also hone their "forecasting skills".

IF ANYONE FINDS SOMEONE ON THIS SITE POSTING SOMETHING SUCH AS SUGGESTED ABOVE, IMMEDIATELY CONTACT A STAFF MEMBER AND IT WILL BE DEALT WITH!!! I CAN NOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH!!!
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Re: How do we make S2K better?

#132 Postby Frank2 » Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:04 am

Per the posts of those in LA and TX who were greatful for the good information received by the Pro Mets and others on this site during Gustav and Ike, keep the emphasis of S2K directed towards the distribution of information during times of landfalling hurricanes or other severe weather - that would really mean a lot to many...

While this wouldn't replace official forecasts, it would be useful when it comes to very specific information - as long as it's not based on rumor...
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Re: How do we make S2K better?

#133 Postby olddude » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:25 pm

Frank2 wrote:Per the posts of those in LA and TX who were greatful for the good information received by the Pro Mets and others on this site during Gustav and Ike, keep the emphasis of S2K directed towards the distribution of information during times of landfalling hurricanes or other severe weather - that would really mean a lot to many...

While this wouldn't replace official forecasts, it would be useful when it comes to very specific information - as long as it's not based on rumor...


So true. I can give an example. I was fortunate enough to engage in an online dialog with a member of S2K after Wilma and then help him find his father whom he had been unable to contact. This member gave me his cell number and Dad's address. I walked up to Dad and handed him my cell while our member was on the line. Bingo.

Scott
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Re: How do we make S2K better?

#134 Postby vbhoutex » Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:42 pm

olddude wrote:
Frank2 wrote:Per the posts of those in LA and TX who were greatful for the good information received by the Pro Mets and others on this site during Gustav and Ike, keep the emphasis of S2K directed towards the distribution of information during times of landfalling hurricanes or other severe weather - that would really mean a lot to many...

While this wouldn't replace official forecasts, it would be useful when it comes to very specific information - as long as it's not based on rumor...


So true. I can give an example. I was fortunate enough to engage in an online dialog with a member of S2K after Wilma and then help him find his father whom he had been unable to contact. This member gave me his cell number and Dad's address. I walked up to Dad and handed him my cell while our member was on the line. Bingo.

Scott

Thank you for this post Scott!! This is one of the reasons S2K has become what it is today. It also makes my day to see posts such as this telling me that we have done some little bit of good in this world, which is one of the reasons this site exists.
We specifically made the STORM2K check-in "system" for situations such as this also. We will resurrect that again each year as we near Hurricane season. It has helped our S2K family find out about members and or others loved ones during several different hurricanes in past years including this year. 2 admins and 2 moderators have a list of check in numbers for members who wish to share them and we do use those to try and determine if our members are ok after weather events, especially hurricanes. I know I have personally used it to both determine others situations and to check in also after Hurricane Ike.
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#135 Postby wyq614 » Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:12 pm

I'd like to say something about wishcasting, in my forum (the TYBBS of China), the problem of wishcasting used to be much more grave than Storm2K. We have a system of "Administrative Reminder". If a member does wishcasting he will receive an administrative reminder from the moderators, just like the function of PM but such kind of reminder can be seen by all the members as it appears above the wishcasting posts.

As for the destruction, we won't mention a region or an island with the desire to see it being destroyed, anyone knows tropical cyclone may mean catastrophe. We have to confess that in my forum there are some IDs with a strong anti-Japan emotion (due to historical reasons) and post something wishing the destruction of Japan but it will definitely be opposed by all other forum members.

There are something we think about in common, that is the orientation of non-professional experienced members and professional mets. Such members are supposed to correct the bad tendency created by new members (e.g. wishcasting) with their own posts and put everything on track.

Something important: The creation of the "instruction posts". In my forum there are posts teaching members how and where to read all kinds of wind analyze images and satellite images, some introduction of Dvorak analyze (high-level), some glossary explanations and even typhoon quizzes (contains questions of different knowledge levels) and vocabularies of English, French and Spanish cyclone reports. It is useful to tell the new members to pay attention to these instruction posts before posting about a tropical system.
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Re: How do we make S2K better?

#136 Postby WeatherLovingDoc » Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:32 pm

I'm new to Storm2K as a registrant, prior to that I lurked. The above poster states what I've been searching for around the site to read, and maybe just haven't found the right thread yet. I love to read about inception of wind, shear, hurricane formation, how it all works, even in great detail. I bet it's here so perhaps you might point me to it. Thanks for the great site, and I've taken note of the definition of wishcasting. :D

"Something important: The creation of the "instruction posts". In my forum there are posts teaching members how and where to read all kinds of wind analyze images and satellite images, some introduction of Dvorak analyze (high-level), some glossary explanations and even typhoon quizzes (contains questions of different knowledge levels) and vocabularies of English, French and Spanish cyclone reports. It is useful to tell the new members to pay attention to these instruction posts before posting about a tropical system"
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Re: How do we make S2K better?

#137 Postby KBBOCA » Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:35 pm

Hi all mods & Admins,
interesting discussion about wishcasting, etc. Personally, I think you all do a pretty good job in dealing with it.

I have a purely technical suggestion. Can there be some kind of banner on Talking Tropics to let us know when there are storms for different basins being discussed in the Active thread?

Something like:

1 system active in the Atlantic.
2 systems active in EPAC.
See Active storms thread

Especially during the low parts of the season, when there is no TD or named Atlantic storm, I don't tend to routinely check the active storms forum, but make Talking Tropics the first page I visit and tend to just quickly glance at the titles to see if there's anything interesting.

I didn't even realize there was the Atlantic invest being discussed in active storms for two days. I saw "Azores" and figured it would be nothing much interesting to read or see given how far north... but what an interesting system that turned out to be.

It would be nice to have a clear "heads up" when there is something active as otherwise some of us miss interesting invests and a chance to learn about storm development and tracking.

Thanks for all you do! S2K is great.
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#138 Postby southerngale » Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:48 pm

KBBOCA,

I'll let the technical guru on staff look into the banner thing (I like the idea), but we do have a setup where you can see what's active in each basin in the Active Storms forum when you first open Storm2k. On the main index page, we update the "Active Storms - All Basins" section to reflect current activity.

http://www.storm2k.org/phpbb2/index.php


For example, this is what it looked like when we had 92L:

Code: Select all

     Active Storms - All Basins

Current storms and invests:

Atlantic Ocean:
Invest 92L

East Pacific:

Central Pacific:

West Pacific:

Bay of Bengal:

Southern Pacific:

Southern Indian Ocean:
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Re: How do we make S2K better?

#139 Postby southerngale » Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:01 pm

WeatherLovingDoc wrote:I'm new to Storm2K as a registrant, prior to that I lurked. The above poster states what I've been searching for around the site to read, and maybe just haven't found the right thread yet. I love to read about inception of wind, shear, hurricane formation, how it all works, even in great detail. I bet it's here so perhaps you might point me to it. Thanks for the great site, and I've taken note of the definition of wishcasting. :D

"Something important: The creation of the "instruction posts". In my forum there are posts teaching members how and where to read all kinds of wind analyze images and satellite images, some introduction of Dvorak analyze (high-level), some glossary explanations and even typhoon quizzes (contains questions of different knowledge levels) and vocabularies of English, French and Spanish cyclone reports. It is useful to tell the new members to pay attention to these instruction posts before posting about a tropical system"


We do have a forum where you can ask questions and read other discussions on various weather related subjects.

http://www.storm2k.org/phpbb2/viewforum.php?f=42

Please feel free to post any educational type threads for the members... that would be great! However, we don't expect our members to read/study instruction posts or even feel like they have to be "weather-versed" before they can post. We welcome everyone, from pro mets and amateurs, to mere weather watchers and concerned coastal residents. :) Except for the occasional troublemaker, we want everyone to feel comfortable posting here.
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#140 Postby Lurker » Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:24 pm

One thing that could be useful is adding under the avatar (or under the online/offline button) "Prior Member of the Month Winner". Usually member of the months add significant value to the threads and this can add more credibility to their posts to others.
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