Hurricane FELIX: Global & BAM Models

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Re: Hurricane FELIX: Global & BAM Models

#601 Postby wxmann_91 » Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:05 pm

jhamps10 wrote:
CYCLONE MIKE wrote:Our local tv met here in south la was just saying how uncertain the track is once Felix crosses the Yucatan. Says by Thursday there will be weak high pressure in the Atlantic east of Florida weakening and moving more east and a trough coming through Texas. In my opinion I don't put much stock in it as of now but you never know. He really didn't sound any alarms just said we really need to watch it towards the mid part of the week for any verifications. Don't shoot the messenger just relaying what I saw.


what channel was that?

sounds like a interesting thought, and plausible.

That is correct... but... Felix will be too far south to be affected by that trough by then
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Re: Hurricane FELIX: Global & BAM Models

#602 Postby jhamps10 » Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:05 pm

Berwick Bay wrote:Yes Opal I do see a weakness in the ridge. Most of the experts see a trough or weakness along the Texas Gulf Coast around that time (Day 5). One of our resident experts has looked at models that say that the trough will evaporate though and the ridge build back in and push Felix across the Bay of Campeche and into the Mexican Mainland well south of Texas. But I'm not so sure. For one thing I think Felix will cross the central to northern Yucatan and not make the Belize landfall. Its more likely to feel the weaknes a little early as it crosses at a more northerly lat. Also, I think the trough will be "weak" enough to induce Felix on an eventual NW to NNW course in the GOM. I can't even totally rule out due north, but I favor a final NNW course in the western GOM, with landfall between Victoria Tex and Morgan City La. Strictly my amateur opinion.


I'm not complaining, but please put in the disclaimer to posts like this,
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Re: Hurricane FELIX: Global & BAM Models

#603 Postby Extremeweatherguy » Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:07 pm

wxmann_91 wrote:
jhamps10 wrote:
CYCLONE MIKE wrote:Our local tv met here in south la was just saying how uncertain the track is once Felix crosses the Yucatan. Says by Thursday there will be weak high pressure in the Atlantic east of Florida weakening and moving more east and a trough coming through Texas. In my opinion I don't put much stock in it as of now but you never know. He really didn't sound any alarms just said we really need to watch it towards the mid part of the week for any verifications. Don't shoot the messenger just relaying what I saw.


what channel was that?

sounds like a interesting thought, and plausible.

That is correct... but... Felix will be too far south to be affected by that trough by then
It might not be directly affected, but if the trough can break down the ridge (which the NHC says is a distinct possibility), then a more NW turn is possible once past the Yucatan.
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Re: Hurricane FELIX: Global & BAM Models

#604 Postby ROCK » Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:08 pm

wxmann_91 wrote:
jhamps10 wrote:
CYCLONE MIKE wrote:Our local tv met here in south la was just saying how uncertain the track is once Felix crosses the Yucatan. Says by Thursday there will be weak high pressure in the Atlantic east of Florida weakening and moving more east and a trough coming through Texas. In my opinion I don't put much stock in it as of now but you never know. He really didn't sound any alarms just said we really need to watch it towards the mid part of the week for any verifications. Don't shoot the messenger just relaying what I saw.


what channel was that?

sounds like a interesting thought, and plausible.

That is correct... but... Felix will be too far south to be affected by that trough by then



Care to elborate? the trof will not be a sharp as progged? the weakness never materilizes? Just curious as the NHC seems uncertain as am I.
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Re: Hurricane FELIX: Global & BAM Models

#605 Postby Berwick Bay » Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:09 pm

I apologize about the disclaimer. I'm posting from another computer this weekend. I didn't have the disclaimer at my fingertips as on my home computer. No excuse.
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#606 Postby Stratosphere747 » Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:12 pm

Rock - The trough may already be lifting out before the weakness has any effect on Felix.

Plus the High will be building back in.
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Re: Hurricane FELIX: Global & BAM Models

#607 Postby perk » Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:14 pm

Portastorm wrote:
Duddy wrote:This sucks, this is my 1st season on Storm2K.

When Dean was a threat to the Gulf, I spent MANY hours a day on this board and that really mad my wife mad at me.

Looks like I might have some more nights on the couch coming... :(


LOL! Join the club Duddy! Well, keep your PC or laptop fired up so at least you can track Felix while you're out on the couch!

My wife made a comment this morning that makes me think that i'm about to become a card carrying member of the couch club. :D
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Re: Hurricane FELIX: Global & BAM Models

#608 Postby CYCLONE MIKE » Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:15 pm

Should of said the trough will not pull Felix more north, but by pushing the high more east and weakening it more which in turn will shift the steering currents more southerly. Agree the trough will be weak just depends on how much it affects the high. These are not my thoughts just a possibilty I heard. I think it is way to early to speculate on what will happen by thursday/Friday.
Last edited by CYCLONE MIKE on Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re:

#609 Postby ROCK » Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:15 pm

Stratosphere747 wrote:Rock - The trough may already be lifting out before the weakness has any effect on Felix.

Plus the High will be building back in.



dang it Strat.... :lol: I know this....just wanted to hear it from Wxmn. I am just getting tired of the one liners.....
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Re: Hurricane FELIX: Global & BAM Models

#610 Postby wxmann_91 » Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:16 pm

ROCK wrote:
wxmann_91 wrote:That is correct... but... Felix will be too far south to be affected by that trough by then



Care to elborate? the trof will not be a sharp as progged? the weakness never materilizes? Just curious as the NHC seems uncertain as am I.

Here is the GFS 500mb plot at 96hr:
http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod ... 0_096m.gif

Felix would be over the Yucatan by then. Note that the 500mb wind vectors are still pointing WNW. At this point I'd expect a slight poleward tug as it feels the weakness. BUT...

120hr:
http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod ... 0_120m.gif

Situation now MUCH different. Trough is zooming off northeast and note that the 500mb wind vectors are pointing WSW. It implies that Felix will be pulled northward, but like so many other hurricanes that have traversed a similar Caribbean-SW GOM path, it will turn back west as it heads toward the demolition factory in the mountains of Mexico.

The key is that the trough is progressive (it's moving rather quickly) and rather weak, as evidenced by the "baggy" height contours. In addition, Felix could be a rather powerful and/or large hurricane by that time... so it's going to take a rather strong external force to change its direction.

Important thing to note is that the strength of the ridge in these initial hours are crucial as to where Felix will make landfall. However, unless Felix manages to threat the Yuc Channel (which none of the reliable models are doing), it won't have enough latitude to be recurved by the shortwave.
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Re: Hurricane FELIX: Global & BAM Models

#611 Postby Berwick Bay » Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:21 pm

wxmann_91 wrote:
ROCK wrote:
wxmann_91 wrote:That is correct... but... Felix will be too far south to be affected by that trough by then



Care to elborate? the trof will not be a sharp as progged? the weakness never materilizes? Just curious as the NHC seems uncertain as am I.

Here is the GFS 500mb plot at 96hr:
http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod ... 0_096m.gif

Felix would be over the Yucatan by then. Note that the 500mb wind vectors are still pointing WNW. At this point I'd expect a slight poleward tug as it feels the weakness. BUT...

120hr:
http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod ... 0_120m.gif

Situation now MUCH different. Trough is zooming off northeast and note that the 500mb wind vectors are pointing WSW. It implies that Felix will be pulled northward, but like so many other hurricanes that have traversed a similar Caribbean-SW GOM path, it will turn back west as it heads toward the demolition factory in the mountains of Mexico.

The key is that the trough is progressive (it's moving rather quickly) and rather weak, as evidenced by the "baggy" height contours. In addition, Felix could be a rather powerful and/or large hurricane by that time... so it's going to take a rather strong external force to change its direction.

Important thing to note is that the strength of the ridge in these initial hours are crucial as to where Felix will make landfall. However, unless Felix manages to threat the Yuc Channel (which none of the reliable models are doing), it won't have enough latitude to be recurved by the shortwave.


Well I don't see a Yucatan Channel crossing either. But a trek across the northern Yucatan would perhaps allow for a greater influence of the trough in the GOM. If that pans out (as I think it will) then I think you would see that NNW course in the GOM that I've been talking about since yesterday morning.
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Re: Hurricane FELIX: Global & BAM Models

#612 Postby Duddy » Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:24 pm

perk wrote:
Portastorm wrote:
Duddy wrote:This sucks, this is my 1st season on Storm2K.

When Dean was a threat to the Gulf, I spent MANY hours a day on this board and that really mad my wife mad at me.

Looks like I might have some more nights on the couch coming... :(


LOL! Join the club Duddy! Well, keep your PC or laptop fired up so at least you can track Felix while you're out on the couch!

My wife made a comment this morning that makes me think that i'm about to become a card carrying member of the couch club. :D



I just remind here that this addiction is seasonal and all will be well in the Fall. :P
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#613 Postby Stratosphere747 » Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:25 pm

Well Berwick...

For your forecast to have any viability, Felix needs to start gaining more latitude than he is currently showing.
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Re: Hurricane FELIX: Global & BAM Models

#614 Postby mattpetre » Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:26 pm

The following post is NOT an official forecast and should not be used as such. It is just the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. It is NOT endorsed by any professional institution including storm2k.org For Official Information please refer to the NHC and NWS products.


Heck, if I'm going to take the time to put the disclaimer in that so many don't when they post things that aren't necessarily endorsed by the NHC, then I'm going to give you my craziest thoughts on what this things going to do.

Felix is already outrunning a ridge that was to the North of it and is now bound to hit the Yucatan just south of Cancun as a Cat. 5. It will then catch up to a weak trough hanging in the GOM on Thurs. and will bend it's way directly towards Corpus Christi. There is very little doubt that this scenario will happen because I have not been correct on a single storm so far, thus it is my time. If you try the same thing multiple times you are bound to get different results eventually right? Or was that the definition of insanity?

Oh well, I really do believe the CONUS will feel something more from this storm than from Dean, but only time will tell.

Peace Out...


BTW, my wife says I'm headed to the couch too if I don't go do something else on Labor Day weekend...
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Re:

#615 Postby Portastorm » Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:29 pm

Stratosphere747 wrote:Well Berwick...

For your forecast to have any viability, Felix needs to start gaining more latitude than he is currently showing.


Yeah, I was just going to post something along those lines ... last few frames of satellite show Felix is back on a due west course ... whether its a wobble or not, every move counts.
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#616 Postby Duddy » Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:30 pm

My wife wants me to take her to the beach tomorrow, thank God for my iPhone and it's full Safari browser! :cheesy:
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Re: Hurricane FELIX: Global & BAM Models

#617 Postby mattpetre » Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:31 pm

[quote="Duddy

I just remind here that this addiction is seasonal and all will be well in the Fall. :P[/quote]

But then there's football... I know I'm screwed till spring... oh wait Tornado season... well at least she gets my full attention during June... unless global warming keeps making early Hurricane weather...
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Re: Hurricane FELIX: Global & BAM Models

#618 Postby Berwick Bay » Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:32 pm

Portastorm wrote:
Stratosphere747 wrote:Well Berwick...

For your forecast to have any viability, Felix needs to start gaining more latitude than he is currently showing.


Yeah, I was just going to post something along those lines ... last few frames of satellite show Felix is back on a due west course ... whether its a wobble or not, every move counts.


I'm not too concerned about the trek for the next 24 hours or so. I do think that it is slowly coming around to a WNW though. I think the key will be as it makes its approach to just north of Honduras. At that point I expect a slowing and a course with a distinctly more northern flavor (perhaps between WNW and NW) before making a rather slow transit of the Yucatan Penninsula.
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Re: Hurricane FELIX: Global & BAM Models

#619 Postby Portastorm » Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:36 pm

Well Berwick, if Felix does makes a slow transit of the Yucatan, my guess is there won't be much left of it upon re-emerging in the BOC. Dean was a fierce Cat 5, moving at a good clip, and exited the peninsula as a Cat 1.
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#620 Postby Extremeweatherguy » Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:37 pm

Probably a good time to remind everyone of the 5pm discussion from the NHC:

A SWIFT WEST-NORTHWESTWARD MOTION...285/17...CONTINUES. I HAVE MADE
ESSENTIALLY NO CHANGE TO THE TRACK FORECAST AND THE REASONING
BEHIND IT. A WELL-ESTABLISHED DEEP LAYER RIDGE TO THE NORTH OF
FELIX SHOULD MORE OR LESS MAINTAIN THE CURRENT MOTION FOR THE NEXT
DAY OR TWO. SOME SLOWING OF THE FORWARD SPEED IS CALLED FOR BY DAY
3 AS THE RIDGE WEAKENS
. THE EXACT FATE OF FELIX OVER THE GULF OF
MEXICO REMAINS SOMEWHAT UNCERTAIN SINCE THERE IS SOME POSSIBILITY
THAT A TROUGH OVER THE CENTRAL U.S. COULD ERODE THE RIDGE MORE THAN
CURRENTLY ANTICIPATED.
HOWEVER IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT NONE OF THE
DYNAMICAL TRACK GUIDANCE MODELS TURN FELIX SIGNIFICANTLY TO THE
RIGHT THROUGH 120 HOURS. IN FACT...THE LATEST GFDL MODEL RUN HAS
SHIFTED WELL TO THE SOUTH OF THE OTHER GUIDANCE. AGAIN...BECAUSE
OF THE UNCERTAINTIES...WE ADVISE AGAINST PUTTING TOO MUCH EMPHASIS
ON THE EXACT NHC FORECAST TRACK AT 4 AND 5 DAYS.


Anyone who thinks they have all the answers right now is mistaken. The NHC doesn't even know what will happen for sure. It is way too early to assume that the trough will be too weak and too progressive or that the ridge will build back in quickly. We will not know these things for sure until the early to mid part of next week. Until then, everybody's predictions are more or less just an educated guess. That's why, ATM, the NHC track is probably the best thing to look at. They have been doing a pretty decent job so far, and I am sure they will continue to do a good job in the days to come. For now, we all just need to watch Felix closely and hope for the best in the end.

Also, Remember: Even if Felix doesn't hit the U.S. directly, a hit on NE Mexico (as the current NHC track shows) would mean probable TS force winds in parts of far south Texas. That is something to keep in mind if you live in a place such as Brownsville.
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