Ex Invest 93L Model Runs

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Ed Mahmoud

Ex Invest 93L Model Runs

#1 Postby Ed Mahmoud » Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:55 am

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080   

WHXX01 KWBC 111252 

CHGHUR 

TROPICAL CYCLONE GUIDANCE MESSAGE 

NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL 

1252 UTC MON AUG 11 2008 

   

DISCLAIMER...NUMERICAL MODELS ARE SUBJECT TO LARGE ERRORS. 

PLEASE REFER TO NHC OFFICIAL FORECASTS FOR TROPICAL CYCLONE 

AND SUBTROPICAL CYCLONE INFORMATION. 

   

ATLANTIC OBJECTIVE AIDS FOR 

   

DISTURBANCE INVEST (AL932008) 20080811 1200 UTC 

   

        ...00 HRS...   ...12 HRS...   ...24 HRS. ..   ...36 HRS... 

        080811  1200   080812  0000   080812  1200   080813  0000 

   

         LAT    LON     LAT    LON     LAT    LON     LAT    LON 

BAMS    10.8N  28.8W   11.0N  30.2W   11.3N  32.1W   11.8N  34.1W 

BAMD    10.8N  28.8W   10.8N  31.5W   10.8N  33.9W   10.9N  36.2W 

BAMM    10.8N  28.8W   11.0N  31.1W   11.2N  33.4W   11.5N  35.7W 

LBAR    10.8N  28.8W   11.3N  31.6W   12.0N  34.7W   12.8N  37.8W 

SHIP        25KTS          29KTS          37KTS          46KTS 

DSHP        25KTS          29KTS          37KTS          46KTS 

   

        ...48 HRS...   ...72 HRS...   ...96 HRS. ..   ..120 HRS... 

        080813  1200   080814  1200   080815  1200   080816  1200 

   

         LAT    LON     LAT    LON     LAT    LON     LAT    LON 

BAMS    12.4N  36.5W   14.2N  43.1W   14.6N  50.5W   14.3N  55.3W 

BAMD    11.0N  38.3W   11.7N  42.9W   14.2N  47.3W   17.8N  50.2W 

BAMM    12.0N  37.9W   13.5N  42.5W   15.6N  47.5W   18.4N  50.6W 

LBAR    13.4N  41.0W   13.7N  47.7W   12.9N  52.6W   14.4N  54.0W 

SHIP        56KTS          70KTS          81KTS          81KTS 

DSHP        56KTS          70KTS          81KTS          81KTS 

   

         ...INITIAL CONDITIONS... 

LATCUR =  10.8N LONCUR =  28.8W DIRCUR = 275DEG SPDCUR =  14KT 

LATM12 =  10.5N LONM12 =  26.0W DIRM12 = 274DEG SPDM12 =  14KT 

LATM24 =  10.3N LONM24 =  23.2W 

WNDCUR =   25KT RMAXWD =   35NM WNDM12 =   25KT 

CENPRS = 1008MB OUTPRS = 1011MB OUTRAD =  180NM SDEPTH =   D 

RD34NE =    0NM RD34SE =    0NM RD34SW =    0NM RD34NW =   0NM 

   

$$ 

NNNN
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#2 Postby HURAKAN » Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:59 am

Image

Long, long way out.
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#3 Postby HURAKAN » Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:50 am

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                    *   ATLANTIC SHIPS INTENSITY FORECAST       *
                    *        GOES/OHC INPUT INCLUDED            *
                    *      INVEST  AL932008  08/11/08  12 UTC   *

TIME (HR)          0     6    12    18    24    36    48    60    72    84    96   108   120
V (KT) NO LAND    25    27    29    32    37    46    56    64    70    75    81    83    81
V (KT) LAND       25    27    29    32    37    46    56    64    70    75    81    83    81
V (KT) LGE mod    25    25    25    25    25    26    29    34    41    49    58    67    70

SHEAR (KTS)       27    24    17    16    14    10     6    10     5     7     9    18    19
SHEAR DIR         77    83    72    94    97    83    71    40    66   167   168   167   176
SST (C)         28.0  28.1  28.2  28.3  28.3  28.2  27.9  27.5  27.3  27.4  27.6  27.7  27.8
POT. INT. (KT)   138   139   140   141   141   140   136   131   129   130   132   133   134
ADJ. POT. INT.   140   139   141   142   142   140   135   129   127   128   128   126   124
200 MB T (C)   -53.5 -53.0 -53.2 -53.5 -53.4 -53.0 -53.3 -53.0 -53.1 -52.9 -53.2 -52.7 -52.8
TH_E DEV (C)       6     6     6     6     6     7     6     7     7     7     8     8     8
700-500 MB RH     76    76    75    75    72    69    70    68    65    64    65    61    60
GFS VTEX (KT)      7     7     7     8    10    11    12    12    12    11    14    14    13
850 MB ENV VOR    47    53    77    81    82    91   102   100   100   104    94    81    73
200 MB DIV        56    79    82   101   100   118   126   105    69    94    99    86    19
LAND (KM)       1302  1416  1532  1649  1729  1669  1671  1553  1426  1335  1297  1351  1401
LAT (DEG N)     10.8  10.9  11.0  11.1  11.2  11.5  12.0  12.7  13.5  14.5  15.6  17.0  18.4
LONG(DEG W)     28.8  30.0  31.1  32.3  33.4  35.7  37.9  40.1  42.5  45.1  47.5  49.4  50.6
STM SPEED (KT)    13    11    11    11    11    11    11    12    13    13    12    10     9
HEAT CONTENT      21    23    24    22    22    17    16    14     9    14    26    37    41

  FORECAST TRACK FROM BAMM      INITIAL HEADING/SPEED (DEG/KT):275/ 14      CX,CY: -13/  1
  T-12 MAX WIND:  25            PRESSURE OF STEERING LEVEL (MB):  510  (MEAN=625)
  GOES IR BRIGHTNESS TEMP. STD DEV. 100-300 KM RAD:  19.0 (MEAN=20.0)
  % GOES IR PIXELS WITH T < -20 C    50-200 KM RAD:  94.0 (MEAN=68.6)

                        INDIVIDUAL CONTRIBUTIONS TO INTENSITY CHANGE
                         6   12   18   24   36   48   60   72   84   96  108  120
                        ----------------------------------------------------------
  SAMPLE MEAN CHANGE     1.   2.   3.   4.   6.   8.   9.  10.  11.  12.  12.  13.
  SST POTENTIAL          0.   0.   0.   2.   5.  11.  17.  22.  26.  29.  32.  33.
  VERTICAL SHEAR         0.   0.   0.  -1.  -1.  -1.  -2.  -1.   0.   0.   0.  -1.
  PERSISTENCE            0.  -1.  -1.  -1.  -1.  -1.  -1.  -1.  -1.  -1.   0.   0.
  200/250 MB TEMP.       0.   0.   0.   0.  -1.  -1.  -1.  -1.  -1.  -1.  -1.  -1.
  THETA_E EXCESS         0.  -1.  -1.  -2.  -2.  -3.  -4.  -6.  -7.  -8.  -9.  -9.
  700-500 MB RH          0.   0.   0.   0.   0.   0.   0.   0.   0.  -1.  -2.  -3.
  GFS VORTEX TENDENCY    0.   0.   0.   1.   2.   3.   3.   3.   2.   4.   4.   3.
  850 MB ENV VORTICITY   0.   0.   1.   1.   2.   3.   4.   5.   5.   6.   6.   6.
  200 MB DIVERGENCE      0.   1.   2.   3.   5.   7.  10.  12.  13.  13.  14.  12.
  ZONAL STORM MOTION     0.   0.   1.   1.   2.   2.   3.   3.   4.   4.   5.   5.
  STEERING LEVEL PRES    0.   1.   1.   1.   1.   2.   2.   3.   3.   2.   2.   2.
  DAYS FROM CLIM. PEAK   0.   0.   0.   0.   0.  -1.  -1.  -1.  -1.  -1.  -1.  -2.
                        ----------------------------------------------------------
  SUB-TOTAL CHANGE       1.   2.   5.   9.  18.  29.  38.  47.  53.  59.  61.  59.

  SATELLITE ADJUSTMENTS ----------------------------------------------------------
  MEAN ADJUSTMENT        0.   0.   0.   0.  -1.  -1.  -1.  -1.  -1.  -1.  -1.  -2.
  GOES IR STD DEV        1.   2.   2.   2.   3.   2.   2.   0.  -1.  -1.  -1.  -1.
  GOES IR PIXEL COUNT    0.   1.   1.   1.   1.   1.   0.   0.  -1.  -1.  -1.   0.
  OCEAN HEAT CONTENT     0.   0.   0.   0.   0.   0.  -1.  -1.  -1.  -1.  -1.  -1.
                        ----------------------------------------------------------
  TOTAL ADJUSTMENT       1.   2.   3.   3.   3.   2.   0.  -2.  -3.  -3.  -3.  -3.
                        ----------------------------------------------------------
  TOTAL CHANGE (KT)      2.   4.   7.  12.  21.  31.  39.  45.  50.  56.  58.  56.

   ** 2008 ATLANTIC RI INDEX AL932008     INVEST 08/11/08  12 UTC **
           ( 25 KT OR MORE MAX WIND INCREASE IN NEXT 24 HR)
 
 12 HR PERSISTENCE (KT):   0.0 Range:-45.0 to  30.0 Scaled/Wgted Val:  0.6/  1.1
 850-200 MB SHEAR (KT) :  19.5 Range: 35.1 to   3.2 Scaled/Wgted Val:  0.5/  0.8
 D200 (10**7s-1)       :  83.6 Range:-20.0 to 149.0 Scaled/Wgted Val:  0.6/  0.9
 POT = MPI-VMAX (KT)   : 115.9 Range: 25.1 to 130.7 Scaled/Wgted Val:  0.9/  1.0
 850-700 MB REL HUM (%):  79.6 Range: 56.0 to  88.0 Scaled/Wgted Val:  0.7/  0.3
 % area w/pixels <-30 C:  90.0 Range: 17.0 to 100.0 Scaled/Wgted Val:  0.9/  0.2
 STD DEV OF IR BR TEMP :  11.0 Range: 35.1 to   3.2 Scaled/Wgted Val:  0.8/  1.0
 Heat content (KJ/cm2) :  22.4 Range:  0.0 to 132.0 Scaled/Wgted Val:  0.2/  0.0
 
 Prob of RI for 25 kt RI threshold=    40% is   3.2 times the sample mean(12.3%)
 Prob of RI for 30 kt RI threshold=    19% is   2.5 times the sample mean( 7.8%)
 Prob of RI for 35 kt RI threshold=     1% is   0.3 times the sample mean( 4.5%)

   ##         ANNULAR HURRICANE INDEX (AHI) AL932008     INVEST 08/11/08  12 UTC         ##
   ## STORM NOT ANNULAR, SCREENING STEP FAILED, NPASS=2 NFAIL=5                          ##
   ## AHI=  0   (AHI OF 100 IS BEST FIT TO ANN. STRUC., 1 IS MARGINAL, 0 IS NOT ANNULAR) ##
   ##     ANNULAR INDEX RAN NORMALLY             
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Re: 93L Model Runs

#4 Postby HURAKAN » Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:50 am

Image
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#5 Postby gatorcane » Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:51 am

The long-wave pattern of an unusually strong East Coast trough appears to be changing in the long-term. Note the GFSX 500MB steering flow between now (Init) and 10 day. The 10 day shows a much less amplified trough along the EC of the CONUS.

Now (amplified EC trough):
Image

10 day (more zonal pattern):
Image
Last edited by gatorcane on Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 93L Model Runs

#6 Postby SouthFloridawx » Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:53 am

6 - 10 Day 500mb forecast.

Maybe you didn't see this:

Image
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#7 Postby x-y-no » Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:47 am

12Z GFS has started - out to 30 hours so far.

Not looking as bullish on 93L as yesterday. Still doing nothing much with 92L
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#8 Postby Derek Ortt » Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:51 am

where is SHIPS getting 30KT of shear now from?

awful GFS analysis
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Re:

#9 Postby x-y-no » Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:56 am

Derek Ortt wrote:where is SHIPS getting 30KT of shear now from?

awful GFS analysis


Yeah, there's some reasonably strong ENE upper winds there, but they sure look like outflow from the convection to me. I'd say the real shear number is more like 15 knots.
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#10 Postby x-y-no » Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:58 am

12Z GFS 72 hours

92L as a weak open wave, 93L as a broad disorganized 1012mb low

http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod ... _072.shtml
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#11 Postby x-y-no » Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:24 am

12Z GFS days 4 & 5

93L still a broad disorganized low.

92L nearly stalled north of PR/Hispaniola - still an open wave.
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#12 Postby x-y-no » Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:42 am

12Z GFS day 7

93L an open wave in the Leeward islands

92L an open wave in the Bahamas

Mid-level ridge building in big-time. Anything under it will be shoved hard to the west.

http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod ... _168.shtml
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Re: 93L Model Runs

#13 Postby cycloneye » Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:46 am

What has happened that suddenly the models are backing off on development in the Atlantic,Those GFS latest runs look dead.Has the Atlantic turned unfavorable at the time the peak of the season starts? I think that the folks that do the forecasts for the different private and goverment entities have to be a little nervous about this as August looks like not an active month.September has to be very active to make ground from the not so active August.Ok,I will stop here,however, I am not downgrading the season,but I only base these words on what is happening now.
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#14 Postby Wx_Warrior » Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:47 am

Yep...Nothing to get excited about.
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Re: ATL: Invest 93L Model Runs

#15 Postby ronjon » Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:53 am

I think we all have to remember that the models are not very good at cyclogenesis. Take the latest GFS with a grain of salt. What the long term pattern is showing is mid-level high pressure building in big time, something it has yet to do this year. That to me is more ominous then an operational model dropping development - something will develop eventually and be steered towrd the west.
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Re: 93L Model Runs

#16 Postby Gustywind » Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:57 am

cycloneye wrote:What has happened that suddenly the models are backing off on development in the Atlantic,Those GFS latest runs look dead.Has the Atlantic turned unfavorable at the time the peak of the season starts? I think that the folks that do the forecasts for the different private and goverment entities have to be a little nervous about this as August looks like not an active month.September has to be very active to make ground from the not so active August.Ok,I will stop here,howeve, I am not downgrading the season,but I only base these words on what is happening now.


Pertinent post Cycloneye, interresting point of view, i'm agree with you i thought the same tkink , some are upset and it's a litte bit credible , for me it's matter of days, we're approaching the peak we should not let our guard down :eek: , the things can turn and refire quickly than predict but let's see with patient is the key word. I don't know if it's the very persistent dry air who have inhibiting a bit the invest too, i'm limited on all these interresting questions, but whereas wait wait it's a tough season with already 5 systems remember Dean last year with letter D was on 17th of Augsut and we have had E Edouard and we will see maybe F Fay this week not so bad, so Wait and See :) :wink: .
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Re: ATL: Invest 93L Model Runs

#17 Postby cycloneye » Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:30 pm

At least some bullish scenario from another model apart from NCEP,the Canadian.

Image
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Re: ATL: Invest 93L Model Runs

#18 Postby Ed Mahmoud » Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:37 pm

UK Met tropical guidance doesn't see 92L at all.

Code: Select all

TROPICAL STORM DEVELOPED IN THE MODEL ANALYSIS AT POSITION :

10.6N  27.7W



  VERIFYING TIME     POSITION     STRENGTH        TENDENCY

  --------------     --------     --------        --------

 12UTC 11.08.2008  10.6N  27.7W   MODERATE

 00UTC 12.08.2008  11.7N  28.3W     WEAK      WEAKENING RAPIDLY

 12UTC 12.08.2008  13.3N  29.5W     WEAK     WEAKENING SLIGHTLY

 00UTC 13.08.2008  14.8N  31.9W     WEAK    INTENSIFYING SLIGHTLY

 12UTC 13.08.2008  15.0N  34.8W     WEAK    INTENSIFYING SLIGHTLY

 00UTC 14.08.2008  15.0N  37.9W     WEAK     WEAKENING SLIGHTLY

 12UTC 14.08.2008  15.6N  40.8W     WEAK     WEAKENING SLIGHTLY

 00UTC 15.08.2008  15.2N  43.1W     WEAK        LITTLE CHANGE

 12UTC 15.08.2008  15.5N  45.8W     WEAK        LITTLE CHANGE

 00UTC 16.08.2008  16.2N  48.1W     WEAK        LITTLE CHANGE

 12UTC 16.08.2008  17.0N  50.2W     WEAK        LITTLE CHANGE

 00UTC 17.08.2008        BELOW TROPICAL STORM STRENGTH

       


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Re: ATL: Invest 93L Model Runs

#19 Postby x-y-no » Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:56 pm

cycloneye wrote:At least some bullish scenario from another model apart from NCEP,the Canadian.


Is the Canadian ever not bullish on development?
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Re: ATL: Invest 93L Model Runs

#20 Postby cycloneye » Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:02 pm

First GFDL run for 93L has a hurricane,but tracks in open waters without affecting anyone.

http://moe.met.fsu.edu/cgi-bin/gfdltc2. ... =Animation
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