WPAC: HAIYAN - Post-Tropical

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Meow

Re: WPAC: HAIYAN - Post-Tropical

#1741 Postby Meow » Wed May 21, 2014 7:28 am

xtyphooncyclonex wrote:
Meow wrote:
euro6208 wrote:Yasmin is a nice name...

Since haiyan was contributed by china, expect the replacement name to be chinese :D


As Haiyan is retired, there may be a new Hai- name in the future, possibly something known by Chinese people. Haishen (sea cucumber), Haidan (sea urchin) or Haixing (Starfish) may be choices. :ggreen:

Haishen is already in the list, first used in 2002, and is not applicable to be a replacement name for Haiyan.

Oops I forgot that there is already another Haishen (sea god) with a different tone. :double:
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Re: Re:

#1742 Postby Meow » Wed May 21, 2014 7:34 am

euro6208 wrote:Do you have a link to this new scale?

http://bbs.typhoon.gov.cn/read.php?tid=59252&fid=10

I collected them from JTWC Best Track Data. You will notice a huge difference on strong winds.
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Re: Re:

#1743 Postby euro6208 » Wed May 21, 2014 10:38 am

Meow wrote:
euro6208 wrote:Do you have a link to this new scale?

http://bbs.typhoon.gov.cn/read.php?tid=59252&fid=10

I collected them from JTWC Best Track Data. You will notice a huge difference on strong winds.


I kinda like that website and it's similiar to storm2k but mostly typhoon talk. Too bad it's in chinese and the translation to english probrably isn't even 50 percent correct...
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Re: Re:

#1744 Postby Meow » Thu May 22, 2014 1:50 am

euro6208 wrote:I kinda like that website and it's similiar to storm2k but mostly typhoon talk. Too bad it's in chinese and the translation to english probrably isn't even 50 percent correct...

It is hosted by the Chinese government so most of topics are related to typhoon. However, there are more South Hemisphere discussions than Storm2K.

JTWC’s new pressure scale is higher than the Koba table, 895 vs. 888 for a T8.0 system.
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Re:

#1745 Postby xtyphooncyclonex » Thu May 22, 2014 11:19 am

Meow wrote:It is really weird that some people still disagree at 10-minute maximum sustained winds. We still cannot get the actual intensity of any tropical cyclone, so making people getting prepared and using a proper scale are more realistic.

Yes, the Koba table adopted by the Japan Meteorological Agency may be lower for strong systems, but it may be closer to how normal people actually feel. JMA does better job on tropical cyclones than most of other agencies, why should we ignore JMA?

Be realistic and mature, please.

According to a Pro Met, 10-min winds (not using BOM's impressive scale IMO) are awful to use for a TC situation, especially for a typhoon that moved unusually fast, and that had a better satellite presentation than any other landfalling storm, INCLUDING MEGI (which they gave a higher intensity) and had the worst wind and storm surge damages, and if else, the costliest disaster in recorrded Philippine history, and is UNUSUAL.

The only reasons why we should not ignore JMA are that it is the sole RSMC of the WPac basin, and they are the ones assigned to officially designate and name our storms.

And based on damage reports in Tanauan and all other places first lashed by the eyewall of the storm, they exceed 235 km/h and may even reach 250 km/h or higher.

JMA does a better job in giving forecasts and advisories to weather systems and typhoons that reach the JAPANESE territory.
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Re: Re:

#1746 Postby Meow » Thu May 22, 2014 2:36 pm

xtyphooncyclonex wrote:According to a Pro Met, 10-min winds (not using BOM's impressive scale IMO) are awful to use for a TC situation, especially for a typhoon that moved unusually fast, and that had a better satellite presentation than any other landfalling storm, INCLUDING MEGI (which they gave a higher intensity) and had the worst wind and storm surge damages, and if else, the costliest disaster in recorrded Philippine history, and is UNUSUAL.

The only reasons why we should not ignore JMA are that it is the sole RSMC of the WPac basin, and they are the ones assigned to officially designate and name our storms.

And based on damage reports in Tanauan and all other places first lashed by the eyewall of the storm, they exceed 235 km/h and may even reach 250 km/h or higher.

JMA does a better job in giving forecasts and advisories to weather systems and typhoons that reach the JAPANESE territory.

So that is how 10-minute winds should be. Yes, we can trust only one professional meteorologist, but I tend to trust an agency and an organisation, which are managed by hundreds of meteorologists.
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Re: Re:

#1747 Postby euro6208 » Thu May 22, 2014 5:34 pm

xtyphooncyclonex wrote:

The only reasons why we should not ignore JMA are that it is the sole RSMC of the WPac basin, and they are the ones assigned to officially designate and name our storms.



Yup :lol:

But entirely different from JTWC/NHC.

Maybe they should be better off somewhere.
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#1748 Postby Meow » Thu May 22, 2014 11:37 pm

JTWC’s intensity to many storms sucks. Are Usagi, Francisco and Lekima the same?
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#1749 Postby stormkite » Fri May 23, 2014 1:34 am

coming from a basin that uses the 10 min wind scale i think the 1 min is a better system and should be the only system used globally.
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Re:

#1750 Postby Meow » Fri May 23, 2014 2:24 am

stormkite wrote:coming from a basin that uses the 10 min wind scale i think the 1 min is a better system and should be the only system used globally.

A basin using 10-minute but an island using 1-minute? The world is not American.
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Re: WPAC: HAIYAN - Post-Tropical

#1751 Postby euro6208 » Fri May 23, 2014 3:48 am

:lol: Yeah deal with it. 1 min is superior and way better and the standard. Don't get mad.

Meow wrote:JTWC’s intensity to many storms sucks. Are Usagi, Francisco and Lekima the same?


Maybe you should go look at the archives of typhoons with eyes that are classified as STS by JMA.


Meow wrote:
stormkite wrote:coming from a basin that uses the 10 min wind scale i think the 1 min is a better system and should be the only system used globally.

A basin using 10-minute but an island using 1-minute? The world is not American.


He is from Australia. Wow you must hate americans by assuming he is from guam :wink:
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#1752 Postby xtyphooncyclonex » Fri May 23, 2014 9:26 am

Anyway, let us shift back to the topic, TYPHOON HAIYAN.
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Re: Re:

#1753 Postby tolakram » Fri May 23, 2014 12:58 pm

Meow wrote:
stormkite wrote:coming from a basin that uses the 10 min wind scale i think the 1 min is a better system and should be the only system used globally.

A basin using 10-minute but an island using 1-minute? The world is not American.


Stop it please.

People can prefer the 1 minute wind scale for sound reasoning, and not having anything to do with nationality. A hurricane/typhoon eye wall can traverse an area in less than 10 minutes so I'm really not sure why there is any value in a 10 minute speed. That is my opinion about wind speed measurements.

We can all express an opinion if we do so respectfully, otherwise posts will be removed and warnings / bans issued.
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Re: Re:

#1754 Postby Meow » Fri May 23, 2014 9:41 pm

tolakram wrote:We can all express an opinion if we do so respectfully, otherwise posts will be removed and warnings / bans issued.

I respect those 1-minute fans, but who would like to respect someone like myself who supports the World Meteorological Organization in this website?
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Re: Re:

#1755 Postby euro6208 » Fri May 23, 2014 11:38 pm

Meow wrote:
tolakram wrote:We can all express an opinion if we do so respectfully, otherwise posts will be removed and warnings / bans issued.

I respect those 1-minute fans, but who would like to respect someone like myself who supports the World Meteorological Organization in this website?



Also you do know that this website storm2k is based in the U.S right? where 1 minute is the standard.
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Re: Re:

#1756 Postby supercane4867 » Sat May 24, 2014 12:11 am

Meow wrote:
tolakram wrote:We can all express an opinion if we do so respectfully, otherwise posts will be removed and warnings / bans issued.

I respect those 1-minute fans, but who would like to respect someone like myself who supports the World Meteorological Organization in this website?

From a scientific viewpoint, 10-min winds tend to understate the destructive potential of tropical cyclone since intense winds don't sustain that long and maximum gusts cannot be accurely determined, thus 1-minute is the best possible wind measurement IMO that could easily be made widely adopted.

If we can make improvement which help people get better prepared why should always follow the unreasonable rule? WMO is not even that big of an influence in terms of TC forecast and warning.
Your WMO-ism is unpopular on neither storm2k nor tybbs, time to stop these nonsense please.
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#1757 Postby xtyphooncyclonex » Sat May 24, 2014 12:45 am

CONCLUSION: 1 min winds are more proper to use for a TC.

Can we just go back to the topic?
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Re:

#1758 Postby tolakram » Sat May 24, 2014 8:36 am

xtyphooncyclonex wrote:CONCLUSION: 1 min winds are more proper to use for a TC.

Can we just go back to the topic?


Sorry, no conclusions. This is why this argument started, this plus the need to bring nationalities into a discussion where they don't belong. I think we've stated why we prefer 1 minute speeds. Meow has stated we should respect the fact that there are organizations that believe the 10 minute speed is best.

Nothing more really to discuss on this topic and this thread, so please refrain from posting here unless it's directly related to Haiyan.

Thanks.
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Re: WPAC: HAIYAN - Post-Tropical

#1759 Postby euro6208 » Sat May 24, 2014 7:53 pm

Image

Super Typhoon Haiyan at 170 knots.

Winds could be as high as 180-185 knots according to some professional mets.
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Re: WPAC: HAIYAN - Post-Tropical

#1760 Postby Meow » Sat May 24, 2014 9:44 pm

euro6208 wrote:Image

Super Typhoon Haiyan at 170 knots.

Winds could be as high as 180-185 knots according to some professional mets.

Who knows. We just have a most accurate value, 8.0.
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