Pascal & Bernoulli principles combined weaken hurricanes

[James]

Either way, a cylinder is more effective.

[cyclonekiller]

And your reference to the Chunnel just helps negate your cost argument since it is 2 small utbes(by comparison) which cost several billions to build. Let's multiply 500(1000/2) by 8B(I may be off a little here)-that is $4,000,000,000,000 for that many chunnel tubes.(I think they are 30' in diameter) 250/30=8.333x4T=$30,000,000,000,000-That appears to be more in line with AFM's estimate and just a little over the $10B you came up with. And once again that does not include design and engineering fees or any other contingencies.

OOPS!!!!! The chunnel was $13B. You plug the numbers in. I am tired!!!

I knew we needed an engineering type person in this discussion.

OK cyclonekiller...deal with the cost estimate and tell us how you came up with your 10 Billion for 1000 (or is is 1500) pipes?

Go ahead...the "world" is waiting.

Of course we a talking about external pressures on the tunnel not the internal pressures. Correct?

[P.K.]

Ok I calculte each tunnel to be 750 feet long 500 feet deep to tap into 60 degree water. The Euopean Chunnel is 5 times longer and was dug under ground and underwater by comparison.

The Channel Tunnel is 50km long of which 39km are under sea which is far longer than 5 times your length. It takes 35 minutes on the train so I'd hope it was anyway.

[Air Force Met]

Who said a tunnel had to be a cylinder? Get a grip.

Hey MR Gripper...you who are so wise in science and engineering....if you want to overcome the turbulent flow problem...and you want the flow to be laminar (you want I should define that one for you?)...you should use a cylinder...not some kind of dd shape...but the bottom line is...which you conveniently AVOIDED...you can't get 330 million cu/ft per hour from those dimensions at 5 mph. Right? Right. Because at 5 mph you need to have a cylinder at least 250' in diameter which is more area than 50x200. Can you comprehend that?

Can you?

[James]

Whichever you are addressing, a cylinder is better. That is why people build tunnels and pipes that way.

[P.K.]

...if you want to overcome the turbulent flow problem...and you want the flow to be laminar (you want I should define that one for you?).

We need to have a discussion about non-dimensional parameters here I think.

[Air Force Met]

Of course we a talking about external pressures on the tunnel not the internal pressures. Correct?

I'm still waiting on you to answer these:

1) You finally answered this one.

2) You said there would be no harm to marine life in the Gulf, since the Gulf temps in winter were already used to being in the low 70's. I made the statement that since you wanted to lower summer time Gulf temps into the mid 70's that this would mean wintertime gulf temps would then be lowered into the upper 50's to low 60's. What will the impacts on marine life be in the Gulf when water temps are lowered to that level (since the only reason winter temps are in the low 70's is because summer temps are in the mid 80's).

3) Who is going to pay for the $35+ trillion dollars it would take to do this project? This is 35 trillion in materials alone for the gulf alone. Add labor.

4) Since the Gulf temps would be lowered year around, this would mean more heat in the tropics and less heat transported to the mid-lats...thus a greater temp difference...which is the key ingredient for severe weather. Add to this a plan for the Gulf stream and you also icrease this temp contrast for Europe. The question is: What will happen to winters north of 35N and what will happen to the severe weather season given the fact the jet stream energy will increase and the temp delta will also increase (meaning parameters for summer and winter severe weather will increase)?

5) In lowering the Gulf Stream Temperature and the loop current temp, what will be the net result on the THC? and how will this effect European Winters?

[cyclonekiller]

1056 tunnels I come up with to span the 40 mile width of gulfstream. Each tunnel is 200 feet wide.

[DoctorHurricane2003]

again,

Just in case you are confused...



Note the smooth rounded edges to the cylinder, and how the object that is not a cylinder has sides.

[Air Force Met]

Of course we a talking about external pressures on the tunnel not the internal pressures. Correct?

If water is on the outside...and water is on the inside...there is no real difference in pressure. Now...how can you get 330 million cu ft per hour at 5 mph from 50x200 (you can't btw)...? And show the calculations that PROVE this is sufficient to take 22.2 trillion cu feet of 90F water to 75F water given in inputs of other 90F water, the sinking of the 60F water and solar insolation.

What material will you use. What is the cost. How did you arrive at 10 Billion.

You see...as people pin you down...it becomes very obvious to the casual observer you don't really know what you are talking about.

That's why we are hanging around.

[Air Force Met]

1056 tunnels I come up with to span the 40 mile width of gulfstream. Each tunnel is 200 feet wide.

Oh...now they are 200' wide...not 50x200'

Oh...BTW...still not wide enough. Remember you need a 250 wide CYLINDER tunnel to get 330 million cu feet per hour.

Which means you still don't know how to do math. At 200', it has to move at about 6 mph. How are you going to boost it the extra 1 mph?

[cyclonekiller]

Of course we a talking about external pressures on the tunnel not the internal pressures. Correct?

I'm still waiting on you to answer these:

1) You finally answered this one.

2) You said there would be no harm to marine life in the Gulf, since the Gulf temps in winter were already used to being in the low 70's. I made the statement that since you wanted to lower summer time Gulf temps into the mid 70's that this would mean wintertime gulf temps would then be lowered into the upper 50's to low 60's. What will the impacts on marine life be in the Gulf when water temps are lowered to that level (since the only reason winter temps are in the low 70's is because summer temps are in the mid 80's).

3) Who is going to pay for the $35+ trillion dollars it would take to do this project? This is 35 trillion in materials alone for the gulf alone. Add labor.

4) Since the Gulf temps would be lowered year around, this would mean more heat in the tropics and less heat transported to the mid-lats...thus a greater temp difference...which is the key ingredient for severe weather. Add to this a plan for the Gulf stream and you also icrease this temp contrast for Europe. The question is: What will happen to winters north of 35N and what will happen to the severe weather season given the fact the jet stream energy will increase and the temp delta will also increase (meaning parameters for summer and winter severe weather will increase)?

5) In lowering the Gulf Stream Temperature and the loop current temp, what will be the net result on the THC? and how will this effect European Winters?

#2 answers itself. The temperature of the water is well above winter time temps. That should tell you no harm to sealife occurs.

#3 is your cost not mine.

#4 the temps are lowered for only 8 days prior to a storms arrival and then flow is shunted to the surface after the storm passes and has been weakened to a cat 1 storm. Cooling phase is temporary not year long.

#5 It should moderate them and prevent the deluge of rain we are causing them through global warming.

[WindRunner]

I was going to try to stay out of this, but #4 is one of the craziest things I have ever heard. Where did the number 8 come from? And you still don't understand #2 . . .

[P.K.]

#5 It should moderate them and prevent the deluge of rain we are causing them through global warming.

Speaking from Europe I can tell you that just isn't the case.

About point 4: As I've said before you can't do this sort of thing down there if it is going to effect someone else (Such as the 60 million of us that live in the UK)

[James]

Of course we a talking about external pressures on the tunnel not the internal pressures. Correct?

I'm still waiting on you to answer these:

1) You finally answered this one.

2) You said there would be no harm to marine life in the Gulf, since the Gulf temps in winter were already used to being in the low 70's. I made the statement that since you wanted to lower summer time Gulf temps into the mid 70's that this would mean wintertime gulf temps would then be lowered into the upper 50's to low 60's. What will the impacts on marine life be in the Gulf when water temps are lowered to that level (since the only reason winter temps are in the low 70's is because summer temps are in the mid 80's).

3) Who is going to pay for the $35+ trillion dollars it would take to do this project? This is 35 trillion in materials alone for the gulf alone. Add labor.

4) Since the Gulf temps would be lowered year around, this would mean more heat in the tropics and less heat transported to the mid-lats...thus a greater temp difference...which is the key ingredient for severe weather. Add to this a plan for the Gulf stream and you also icrease this temp contrast for Europe. The question is: What will happen to winters north of 35N and what will happen to the severe weather season given the fact the jet stream energy will increase and the temp delta will also increase (meaning parameters for summer and winter severe weather will increase)?

5) In lowering the Gulf Stream Temperature and the loop current temp, what will be the net result on the THC? and how will this effect European Winters?

#2 answers itself. The temperature of the water is well above winter time temps. That should tell you no harm to sealife occurs.

#3 is your cost not mine.

#4 the temps are lowered for only 8 days prior to a storms arrival and then flow is shunted to the surface after the storm passes and has been weakened to a cat 1 storm. Cooling phase is temporary not year long.

#5 It should moderate them and prevent the deluge of rain we are causing them through global warming.

A deluge of rain? We kinda need the rain we get already. In fact, this year has been considerably drier than average. Europe is a temperate climate, rain is part of it.

[cyclonekiller]

1056 tunnels I come up with to span the 40 mile width of gulfstream. Each tunnel is 200 feet wide.

Oh...now they are 200' wide...not 50x200'

Oh...BTW...still not wide enough. Remember you need a 250 wide CYLINDER tunnel to get 330 million cu feet per hour.

Which means you still don't know how to do math. At 200', it has to move at about 6 mph. How are you going to boost it the extra 1 mph?

Again who says they have to be cylinders?

[James]

1056 tunnels I come up with to span the 40 mile width of gulfstream. Each tunnel is 200 feet wide.

Oh...now they are 200' wide...not 50x200'

Oh...BTW...still not wide enough. Remember you need a 250 wide CYLINDER tunnel to get 330 million cu feet per hour.

Which means you still don't know how to do math. At 200', it has to move at about 6 mph. How are you going to boost it the extra 1 mph?

Again who says they have to be cylinders?

Anybody who works in engineering.

[cyclonekiller]

I was going to try to stay out of this, but #4 is one of the craziest things I have ever heard. Where did the number 8 come from? And you still don't understand #2 . . .

Each day the gulf stream migrates to the North 120 miles per day if you cool that water to 75 degrees for 8 days you have cooled 960 miles of gulfstream thus protecting the East coast.

[WindRunner]

Why don't we use triangles? Or a rectangle? Both of those are very structurally sound . . . Not too many weak spots . . .


Seriously, what shape would you use, if not cylinders?

[Air Force Met]

"#2 answers itself." Huh? Ohh...you are rich. I think simple things are well beyond your grasp.

"The temperature of the water is well above winter time temps. That should tell you no harm to sealife occurs." No it is not. When you LOWER the summer time temp, then you don't have the same temp to start off with in winter. Hello? McFLY? Are you sure you are in there? 10-1=9. That means that if you only start of with a 9...and you still take away a 1 (in winter)...then you get an 8. You get the concept?

"#3 is your cost not mine."

I gave you detailed scientic analysis...complete with a cost estimate...which is a lot more (by a light year) than you have done. All you have done is "it'll cost 10 BIllion" which is the stoopidist thing anyone has heard of and if you actually believe that then you must be borrowing the computer at the rec room in the Glen Grove "Hospital."


"#4 the temps are lowered for only 8 days prior to a storms arrival and then flow is shunted to the surface after the storm passes and has been weakened to a cat 1 strom. Cooling phase is temporary not year long."

OK...8 days. Explain the average 8 day forecast error from the NHC...especially given you are dealing with 40 miles wide. Oh wait. Most hurricanes last less than 8 days.

OK...explain how that will work?

#5 It should moderate them and prevent the deluge of rain we are causing them through global warming.[/quote]

Wrong. There is no scienfic data to suggest we are deluging them with rain. Matter of fact..they were just hit with a very bad drought several years ago and it continues in many areas. Explain that MR Climo? Please...I want to know how we have cause flooding rains in Europe that at the same time has caused them doughts. Do you have long-term memory loss?

You forget you are talking to a Pro-Met. You really are a clueless individual...or a troll who is having a thrill while you sit at your computer...sipping your beer in your underwear smoking a cigarette.