BREAKING NEWS: Andrea Yates Not Guilty in Retrial

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#121 Postby Air Force Met » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:21 pm

rainstorm wrote: i read somewhere that yates was suicidal. susan smith claimed she wanted to kill herself, not her kids. time and again these mothers claim to be suicidal, yet when it comes time to make a choice as to which life to end, its never their own. yates was rational enough to decide not to end her own life. i would accept the idea of her insanity had she gone with her kids


From a news article from Nov 22nd, 2003...

"Mrs. Yates' mental health almost immediately was at issue. Her husband
told of years of mental illness, beginning with a severe bout of
postpartum depression after the birth of their 4th child.

Medical records released two months after the deaths detailed 2 suicide attempts and four hospitalizations in mental health facilities.

Mrs. Yates' most recent hospital stay ended less than a month before the
drownings, even though she was rarely sleeping and eating, and showing
other signs of severe mental illness. In an outpatient visit 2 weeks
before, her doctor took her off Haldol, a powerful antipsychotic drug that
had helped her in the past.



So...I guess you would only accept it if she was successful.

Maybe it was being put in a mental hospital 4 times that did it.
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#122 Postby Janice » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:23 pm

Thanks for the info.
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#123 Postby rainstorm » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:24 pm

Janice wrote:What about the people who are sane and at the last minute grab a gun and shot themselves or overdose. A way out..... pressure can cause suicide or murder. Susan smith was not insane, she wanted out with a new boyfriend.


but yates meticulously planned every detail when she disposed of her kids. and again, she was certainly rational enough to spare her own life. lucky for her i suppose that she overcame her numerous suicidal tendencies
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#124 Postby Air Force Met » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:26 pm

gtalum wrote:You're confusing a personality disorder (pedophilia) with insanity (the inability to know what is right and wrong). Pedophiles generally know that what they do is wrong. They are not insane, even though they may have a mental illness.


Bingo. Pedophiles have usually rationalized away the knowlege of right and wrong over prolonged "exposure. " (OK...BAD pun...)

They once knew...and most still know the difference b/w right and wrong. Insane means that deep down they don't know what they are doing is wrong.

People would have a problem if we executed someone with downs syndrome...because you can "see" the mental illness. Here, you can't see it...although I think if you had dropped by the old house a couple of hours before the deed...it would have been VERY clear and anyone in their right mind would have called the cops....hence my problem with Russell Yates.
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#125 Postby Janice » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:27 pm

I wonder what the big change for her was from going from trying to commit suicide and finally killing her children. I wonder what made her change her mind and not make the third suicide attempt.
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#126 Postby Air Force Met » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:29 pm

rainstorm wrote:
but yates meticulously planned every detail when she disposed of her kids. and again, she was certainly rational enough to spare her own life. lucky for her i suppose that she overcame her numerous suicidal tendencies


She did not have tendancies...she had failed attempts and hospitalizations.

She did NOT "meticulously" plan every detail. Please explain that. She grabbed her kids and dunked them in a tub. Maybe that takes a lot of planning where you come from...but not where I'm from.

Please explain how that is "meticulously planning every detail?"
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#127 Postby rainstorm » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:30 pm

Air Force Met wrote:
rainstorm wrote: i read somewhere that yates was suicidal. susan smith claimed she wanted to kill herself, not her kids. time and again these mothers claim to be suicidal, yet when it comes time to make a choice as to which life to end, its never their own. yates was rational enough to decide not to end her own life. i would accept the idea of her insanity had she gone with her kids


From a news article from Nov 22nd, 2003...

"Mrs. Yates' mental health almost immediately was at issue. Her husband
told of years of mental illness, beginning with a severe bout of
postpartum depression after the birth of their 4th child.

Medical records released two months after the deaths detailed 2 suicide attempts and four hospitalizations in mental health facilities.

Mrs. Yates' most recent hospital stay ended less than a month before the
drownings, even though she was rarely sleeping and eating, and showing
other signs of severe mental illness. In an outpatient visit 2 weeks
before, her doctor took her off Haldol, a powerful antipsychotic drug that
had helped her in the past.



So...I guess you would only accept it if she was successful.

Maybe it was being put in a mental hospital 4 times that did it.


this is what i am having a hard time accepting. you have indicated her supposed suicide attempts and tendencies. but when she made the meticulous planning of her kids deaths, she was able to overcome her suicidal tendencies and spared her own life. like you said, the verdict is in and she won
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#128 Postby gtalum » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:31 pm

The "meticulous planning" argument is laughable. She made no attempt whatsoever to cover up her actions. That's one of the many big giveaways that she was insane.
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#129 Postby Air Force Met » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:31 pm

Janice wrote:I wonder what the big change for her was from going from trying to commit suicide and finally killing her children. I wonder what made her change her mind and not make the third suicide attempt.


Mental illness. She started hearing voices. Haldol is used to treat schizophrenia and she had been on it before...and she was on it again right before this.
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#130 Postby Janice » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:31 pm

Yes, I doubt she got up and fed the kids their breakfast and dressed them just to kill them later. Doesn't look like a plan to me. She even said goodbye to her husband.
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#131 Postby Janice » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:33 pm

So, it is possible to have depression and mental illness and still be sane? Know what you are doing?
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#132 Postby rainstorm » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:33 pm

i feel her husband may well be insane and delusional. i just heard him on the radio say he and poor andrea have suffered more than anyone in this "ordeal". thats almost an exact quote. he may have forgotten that his kids suffered, quite alot.
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#133 Postby Air Force Met » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:34 pm

rainstorm wrote: this is what i am having a hard time accepting. you have indicated her supposed suicide attempts and tendencies. but when she made the meticulous planning of her kids deaths, she was able to overcome her suicidal tendencies and spared her own life. like you said, the verdict is in and she won


Prove that. PLease document that with evidence. The kids were drowned in a tub after the husband left for work. She grabbed them and dunked them and laid them on the bed or left them in the tub.

Prove that statement. I have PROVEd mental illness just by the fact she had documented mental illness after the 4TH child...AND teh 5th child...and 4 hospitalizations.

Prove what YOU are saying.
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#134 Postby gtalum » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:35 pm

Janice wrote:So, it is possible to have depression and mental illness and still be sane? Know what you are doing?


Yes. Insanity is a very specific legal condition, meaning that you do not know the difference between what's right and what's wrong to do.

There are many mental illnesses, including depression, that do not prevent people from knowing what is right and wrong.
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#135 Postby rainstorm » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:37 pm

gtalum wrote:The "meticulous planning" argument is laughable. She made no attempt whatsoever to cover up her actions. That's one of the many big giveaways that she was insane.


but she overcame her suicidal tendencies, even after observing the results of her actions, 5 dead kids. even that didnt make her kill herself
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#136 Postby Air Force Met » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:38 pm

Janice wrote:So, it is possible to have depression and mental illness and still be sane? Know what you are doing?


Sure. Mental illness doesn't mean insane. But insane always means mental illness.

Depression can be due to mental illness...or just circumstances. Mental illness in that it may be hereditary...or there may be a chemical imbalance....or increased toxic neurochemicals...

Or it just may mean you've had your share of the top 10 stressors in a short period of time and there is no mental illness.

Someone can be mentally ill, though, and still know right from wrong. My sister-in-law is mentally ill and 99% of the time when she does wrong...she knows it...and does it anyway.

And...I don't let her slide when I talk to her about it.
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#137 Postby Air Force Met » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:40 pm

rainstorm wrote:
gtalum wrote:The "meticulous planning" argument is laughable. She made no attempt whatsoever to cover up her actions. That's one of the many big giveaways that she was insane.


but she overcame her suicidal tendencies, even after observing the results of her actions, 5 dead kids. even that didnt make her kill herself


Again...it wasn't a tendancy. Suicidal tendancy means you have thoughts. She was suicidal and she made attempts.

Now...back up what you were saying with evidence. How did she meticulously plan this?
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#138 Postby rainstorm » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:41 pm

Air Force Met wrote:
rainstorm wrote: this is what i am having a hard time accepting. you have indicated her supposed suicide attempts and tendencies. but when she made the meticulous planning of her kids deaths, she was able to overcome her suicidal tendencies and spared her own life. like you said, the verdict is in and she won


Prove that. PLease document that with evidence. The kids were drowned in a tub after the husband left for work. She grabbed them and dunked them and laid them on the bed or left them in the tub.

Prove that statement. I have PROVEd mental illness just by the fact she had documented mental illness after the 4TH child...AND teh 5th child...and 4 hospitalizations.

Prove what YOU are saying.


i am saying she was able to overcome her suicidal tendencies and spare her own life. the proof? she is alive today
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#139 Postby Lindaloo » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:42 pm

What about her oldest son? He fought her and she admitted it made her angry! Is that not knowing what you are doing? She showed persistence by overpowering him and drowning him.
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#140 Postby rainstorm » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:44 pm

has she made anymore suicide attempts since the death of her kids? i would think if she was suicidal before the killings, she would really be suicidal now
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