Bible Study Coming to New Braunfels ISD

[southerngale]

Things are still evoving today...This is a fact based teaching...Not a belief in a book that can't be proven...I guess you would probably say that dinosaurs and humans walked the earth at the same time. Because the bible time line makes the earth about 6000 years old....I say I like the evolution teaching better..

I don't have children. But if I did - suppose I said that I did not want my child's believes in God to be countered? What would you say to that? Because I would teach my child that God created the world AND man. If you are going to teach one, then the other should be offered as well.

If you had children (you can have mine if you wish. ), but if you had children teaching them that only God created man is ridiculous. You will have problems when it comes to human biology and so forth. I say let them learn that stuff when the time is right.

lol - OMG!!!! Dude, all I have ever believed ALL MY LIFE is that God created man! And I have never had one single problem when it comes to human biology.

Me either. I thank God for my upbringing in church and being taught the Truth. I can't imagine being lost in this world, thinking we came from monkeys with no real purpose. That seems so sad.

[x-y-no]

Just picking a nit ...

We did not "come from monkeys". Rather, humans and monkeys have a common ancestor.

Not the same thing at all.

[vbhoutex]

If you had children (you can have mine if you wish. ), but if you had children teaching them that only God created man is ridiculous. You will have problems when it comes to human biology and so forth. I say let them learn that stuff when the time is right.

What is the "RIGHT" time for either one-creation or evolution(biology)?

I too have been brought up all my life with Creation. I have had not one problem working between Creation and Evolution or with biology either. Just because one is taught Creation, it does not exclude evolution being taught in their lives too. Everything is not absolute in our lives Alex. Life would be so much easier if it was!!

And no thanks on the kids offer. I have two of my own that I have already raised. It's your turn!!!

[southerngale]

Evolution on the other hand is accepted by almost everyone who is not an Islamist or a Conservative Christian.

Since like 75% to 85% of Americans call themselves Christians (depending on the poll) and another 0.5% or so for Islam, I'd say most believe God created the universe and man. I don't know the figures on that, but I'm sure it has something to do with evolution being allowed, then mandated in public schools. When you force one theory upon children, they just might believe it. After all, it's their school that is teaching it, the place where their parents say they must go to learn. Fortunately, many parents are able to correct this with their kids by teaching them the truth at home and/or in church, but some just don't bother or may not believe it themselves.

If we're going to teach the evolution theory in public schools, we should also teach creationism. Let the children hear both. Oh wait, non-Christians won't like that because it's not a science. Ok, how about we teach "intelligent design" then?

[southerngale]

One thing is for sure we will all find out...For those that believe most of them believe they will goto heaven...It is a happy ending to life....I don't know what happens when you die... But as long as I'm living I will make the most of everyday. I will not rely on some unproven , powerless supernataural being to controll my life or my thinking.

I agree with you there - we will all find out.

I believe in God and yet, I manage to make the most of everyday too. hmmm, imagine that!

(well except for being sick right now, which is why I'm replying so much. lol - I'm just now reading all the posts from today and making a few comments, and skipping some I'd like to make so I don't have like 10 posts in a row. hehe)

[DoctorHurricane2003]

See sg--this is what I don't get. Why is evolution not true at all? By your post, you are basically nullifying it. Why is it completely not possible that God created evolution?

[kevin]

Most christians are not fundamentalists. Most christians believe in what many here would call liberal christianity. They accept the existence of dinosaurs and the corresponding belief in evolution. Evolution is a fact, there is no denying it, to do so is spitting into the wind.

All intelligent design is, is creationism. This has been proven in court when the IDers took creationist texts and removed the word creationism and replaced it with intelligent design. Their copying was not very rigorous (just like their theory it was slip shod) and there are points where it goes 'cintelligent design' and 'crintelligent design'. How wonderful.

The only people who are spreading intelligent design are liars. Evolution is accepted in the scientific community to an astonishing degree, matched only by belief in a round earth and Einstein's theory of relativity. It is the foundation of biological science, and science unlike religion has no agenda. Those are the facts, which everyone is free to disregard as their emotions let them.

[VanceWxMan]

I have one thing to say.. then I am done. BTW WOW on this thread growing so fast!


For ALL of you atheist/agnostics.... When you find yourself at the end of your rope with nothing else to turn to. Or when you are faced with a catastrophe..I WONDER who's name you will call upon.

Several of my friends WERE Atheist.. each in their own way had a HUGE crisis and EACH called out to God to help them out of it. They are now believers

Those that call out (upon) the name of the Lord SHALL BE SAVED.

This thread was nothing more than a set of ideas and opinions. WHO IS RIGHT? hmm that would be in the eye of the beholder

[kevin]

Don't insult my intelligence with that drivel Sir. I have called no christians not christian, and don't you dare say that I am simply rebelling against god, or that I am hiding from god. I am doing neither. And I will not call on god when my time comes, I have not called on god when tragedy has struck near me. I have seen many call on god, for instance with the miners, and go hallelujah and then silent. Miracles which only include the extraordinarily rare good things, ignore the commonplace bad things and the extraordinarily rare bad things. I live my life, like all of you. And am no worse or better for it.

Many people die with conviction that there is no god, and in peace. I have been there to witness it. Christians sometimes find it enjoyable to say that there are no true atheists, or that everyone famous recants on their deathbed, but this is not the case.

[DoctorHurricane2003]

I am not an atheist, but I am a non-denominational CHRISTIAN and I do believe God wants me to learn more about how he made this world. For more info on what I believe, see the thread I created when this one was temporarily locked.

[kevin]

You will also notice that only christians are here trying to turn a calm ordered debate into personal attacks. They are the only ones who feel threatened by teaching facts. I am for a fact based study of religious texts, for a fact based inquiry into biology, for the exploration of all things. In short for the examined life which is the one thing even more than christianity (far older) that defines the west.

When we say that evolution fits the bill nicely with science, that is because that is what science says. Even if the IDers could find holes in evolution they would STILL have to provide a replicable, empyrical set of hypotheses to explain the development of various forms. If you destroy natural selection (no one has come close) that does not mean we return to fundamentalism, we continue to probe the nature of the cosmos with facts and reason.

[Skywatch_NC]

Don't insult my intelligence with that drivel Sir. I have called no christians not christian, and don't you dare say that I am simply rebelling against god, or that I am hiding from god. I am doing neither. And I will not call on god when my time comes, I have not called on god when tragedy has struck near me. I have seen many call on god, for instance with the miners, and go hallelujah and then silent. Miracles which only include the extraordinarily rare good things, ignore the commonplace bad things and the extraordinarily rare bad things. I live my life, like all of you. And am no worse or better for it.

Many people die with conviction that there is no god, and in peace. I have been there to witness it. Christians sometimes find it enjoyable to say that there are no true atheists, or that everyone famous recants on their deathbed, but this is not the case.

Concerning miners...what would you call it where that group of men were pulled out alive from a flooded mine in PA?

It's truly a miracle with that.

Also with the young man from WV named Randal McCloy Jr. who in fact is now awake and improving every day.

[southerngale]

Don't insult my intelligence with that drivel Sir. I have called no christians not christian, and don't you dare say that I am simply rebelling against god, or that I am hiding from god. I am doing neither. And I will not call on god when my time comes, I have not called on god when tragedy has struck near me. I have seen many call on god, for instance with the miners, and go hallelujah and then silent. Miracles which only include the extraordinarily rare good things, ignore the commonplace bad things and the extraordinarily rare bad things. I live my life, like all of you. And am no worse or better for it.

Many people die with conviction that there is no god, and in peace. I have been there to witness it. Christians sometimes find it enjoyable to say that there are no true atheists, or that everyone famous recants on their deathbed, but this is not the case.

Nobody was insulting your intelligence. He gave an account on something he has witnessed occur. It was not drivel. This discussion has remained civil thus far. Don't mess that up now.

[southerngale]

You will also notice that only christians are here trying to turn a calm ordered debate into personal attacks. They are the only ones who feel threatened by teaching facts. I am for a fact based study of religious texts, for a fact based inquiry into biology, for the exploration of all things. In short for the examined life which is the one thing even more than christianity (far older) that defines the west.

When we say that evolution fits the bill nicely with science, that is because that is what science says. Even if the IDers could find holes in evolution they would STILL have to provide a replicable, empyrical set of hypotheses to explain the development of various forms. If you destroy natural selection (no one has come close) that does not mean we return to fundamentalism, we continue to probe the nature of the cosmos with facts and reason.

Wrong. You said "The only people who are spreading intelligent design are liars." after noting that intelligent design is just another way of saying creationism, therefore you're calling me and others liars. That's the only personal attack I see.

I don't want to have to lock this thread. KEEP IT CIVIL!!

[kevin]

Skywatch, the miners died... all of them but one. It was hardly a miracle. If it was, I feel for the unblessed families. Notions of miracles seem to me kind of one sided. We call tragedy god's will, we call good news miracles. In the case of the miners, people believed that god had given a blessing, and remained silent when they realized god had done nothing of the sort, and then focused on one survivor. No, I believe that things happen in the world because of causality.

Southerngale, he stated that my convictions along with all atheists are based on some sort of intellectual or emotional incapacity. Assuming that my convictions could not possibly be as strong as his. I do not believe this is anything else but an insult to the intelligence of those who do not believe. I have not been calling christians atheists, why should he be allowed to call atheists untrue to their worldview?

[kevin]

That was established in a court of law.

Intelligent design = creationism.
Creationism != science.
Creationism is based on faith.

Creationism could be correct. It is simply not scientific.
To say that it is and know what science is (like the people arguing in the court) is to lie. To have beliefs and convictions is not lying, it is simply having beliefs.

[DoctorHurricane2003]

I feel the need to post a slightly edited version of the thread disclaimer that I put in my thread here as people on BOTH SIDES of the aisle have been attacking one another, some blatant, some not-so-obvious, but its there:

Thread disclaimer: It is safe to say no political comments are allowed in this thread, that is, comments about one or more political parties or opposition. What this thread is about is religious discussion (do NOT attack others), the science behind our U.S. constitution as to what is allowed and what is not allowed, and how our country as a whole is evolving on these viewpoints. Attacking one another's thoughts are strictly prohibited and yes it IS possible to have a civil discussion for these matters. If you personally believe you think you will make a comment that will come off as angry/bashing it is best not to continue to read this thread and to just ignore it. This is for philosophical/scientific discussion only.


RESPECT EACH OTHERS' VIEWPOINTS.

Another note: It also helps not to stereotype groups of people. BOTH SIDES

[southerngale]

Southerngale, he stated that my convictions along with all atheists are based on some sort of intellectual or emotional incapacity. Assuming that my convictions could not possibly be as strong as his. I do not believe this is anything else but an insult to the intelligence of those who do not believe. I have not been calling christians atheists, why should he be allowed to call atheists untrue to their worldview?

What?? Read his post again.

[southerngale]

That was established in a court of law.

Intelligent design = creationism.
Creationism != science.
Creationism is based on faith.

Creationism could be correct. It is simply not scientific.
To say that it is and know what science is (like the people arguing in the court) is to lie. To have beliefs and convictions is not lying, it is simply having beliefs.

Umm...yes, I know. That's why I said it in the way I said it and then put a smiley there.

But I believe in creationism because I know it it true. You may not, and that's your choice.

[kevin]

I can probably accept that his post wasn't intended to be insulting, but it nevertheless was. I'm actually a very reserved person. I don't go around spreading science, voicing my atheism, I know that I live in a community of believers. Sometimes I even feel religious feelings. When I am dead and gone people will be worshipping gods, offering sacrifices, scribling with pigments on walls either of buildings or caves. There is something within us that feels religious awe, it is universal throughout mankind. I can respect that.

I can understand why people believe in a god, even without the emotions, even intellectually. I can understand the desire for an afterlife and even for the specialness which creation gives us. What I don't want people to think is that I am a bad person for having my convictions (or as some would have it lack thereof) or that I have sloppy thinking skills. It has taken quite a while for me to come to this place in my life, and it was not undertaken blindly.

I appreciate the reserve shown by the staff in this thread. Many good points have been discussed.

PS: I think my smiley things are disabled for some reason, they're not showing up in southerngale's posts..