ATL: IKE Discussion

[JonathanBelles]

Disclaimer: This is unconfirmed

Someone says that the flyover shots of Bolivar Peninsula came from a private aircraft (probably a resident) who was checking their property and that the Dept. of Homeland Security has issued a no-fly zone for that area.

Thats odd...Sounds like a Coverup to me. What is there that could be dangerous for a typical no fly zone?

[Hfcomms]

I saw that video piece as well. It was shot from a high wing private plane. If the authoritities have made it a 'no fly' area it could be because of anticipated ongoing rescue activity with a lot of rotary wing aircraft in the area....or, it could be because they know they are going to find a lot of bodies floating around and they don't want that footage out on the news. I'll believe that isn't the case if at least they let the news helicopters fly in the area tomorrow.

[jopatura]

Disclaimer: This is unconfirmed

Someone says that the flyover shots of Bolivar Peninsula came from a private aircraft (probably a resident) who was checking their property and that the Dept. of Homeland Security has issued a no-fly zone for that area.

Thats odd...Sounds like a Coverup to me. What is there that could be dangerous for a typical no fly zone?

They aren't allowing planes to fly where the air traffic control can't see them. A lot of the towers between Houston and the coast are gone or destroyed. It's why even the major airports can't fly out right now.

[attallaman]

To the poster whose aunt is in Pasadena. Keep trying. We just got power back. We were suprised that we had cable...it went dwon first last nihgt. I am in Deer Park which borders with parts of Pasadena. We did not venture out but a few blocks. We mainly saw trees, fences, and light poles down.

Was Pasadena hit pretty hard? Where is Pasadena located in relation to Houston? North, south, east, west? My aunt lives on Canada Drive. Since you're from that area are there any radio stations broadcasting live now with emergency information? If I knew of one I would call in and ask a question and it's possible she might be listening to the radio if her power is out.

KHOU TV is her favorite TV station but emails I sent to them yesterday and today were not read, they were deleted by staff at KHOU TV. Her phone is through a cable TV provider and it's out and she does not have a cell phone. You happen to know the name of the cable TV provider for Pasadena? Thanks for the post.

[jopatura]

Thats odd...Sounds like a Coverup to me. What is there that could be dangerous for a typical no fly zone?

They aren't allowing planes to fly where the air traffic control can't see them. A lot of the towers between Houston and the coast are gone or destroyed. It's why even the major airports can't fly out right now.

ATC @ Houston airports should have no problem picking them up on radar?

IDK, all I've heard is that even the big commercial planes can't fly because of gaps in the ATC. From what I understand of the system (and I may be wrong) that there are unmanned towers that funnel the radar images into Houston and that is what's down right now.

[attallaman]

Plus IF all of that is true, Galveston must also be a No Fly Zone because that's when the KHOU chopper turned around, over San Luis Pass and a little before it got to the residential parts of the west end.

They kept saying something about low visibility but it didn't look like it and that private plane got over there (illegaly I guess).

I'm not saying they're doing the wrong thing, just trying to sort out the facts.

I had heard on one of the major cable TV news channels that authorities did not want TV news helicopters to fly over the area because they might discover bodies and broadcast that on TV, that's what I heard late yesterday either on FOX Cable News or MSNBC.

[attallaman]

To the poster whose aunt is in Pasadena. Keep trying. We just got power back. We were suprised that we had cable...it went dwon first last nihgt. I am in Deer Park which borders with parts of Pasadena. We did not venture out but a few blocks. We mainly saw trees, fences, and light poles down.

Was Pasadena hit pretty hard? Where is Pasadena located in relation to Houston? North, south, east, west? My aunt lives on Canada Drive. Since you're from that area are there any radio stations broadcasting live now with emergency information? If I knew of one I would call in and ask a question and it's possible she might be listening to the radio if her power is out.

KHOU TV is her favorite TV station but emails I sent to them yesterday and today were not read, they were deleted by staff at KHOU TV. Her phone is through a cable TV provider and it's out and she does not have a cell phone. You happen to know the name of the cable TV provider for Pasadena? Thanks for the post.

I've heard of various reports from Pasadena, some with trees down but no flooding, some with electricity still ON, some with lots of wind damage.

Here is a forum to search through...I'm not familiar with the area so individual threads that mention certain subdivisions I don't know where they are but you probably do. Good luck and hope she's ok!

http://www.khou.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=66

Thank you very much.

[soonertwister]

Thats odd...Sounds like a Coverup to me. What is there that could be dangerous for a typical no fly zone?

They aren't allowing planes to fly where the air traffic control can't see them. A lot of the towers between Houston and the coast are gone or destroyed. It's why even the major airports can't fly out right now.

ATC @ Houston airports should have no problem picking them up on radar?

IDK, all I've heard is that even the big commercial planes can't fly because of gaps in the ATC. From what I understand of the system (and I may be wrong) that there are unmanned towers that funnel the radar images into Houston and that is what's down right now.

Houston ATC should be able to get the entire radar picture for a long way around the airport without any auxilliary radar setups. This sounds like an excuse, not a reason. Radar anywhere in Houston metro should be able to see well out into the Gulf. If you aren't in the larger area around Houston metro, you are either in uncontrolled airspace or in another ATC jurisdiction, with the exception of well-known no-fly zones, such as military bases.

[CajunMama]

found some pics out of orange, tx

http://kogt.smugmug.com/gallery/5953607_Nn2hu#371134406_jLgnE

[thunderchief]

There is indeed a temporary flight restriction around much of the SE TX and SW LA coasts. This is only at low altitudes with the intent that there is less concern about collission with the dozens of rescue holicopters. I do not know if that piper cub that took the Bolivar pictures was cleared into that TFR(it might have been), or if there is even an operating ATC facility that cares.

As for people not waving to the news copter... there have been 100s of helicopters crossing that area all day now. Police scouts. CG rescue choppers. Heavy national guard transports. Now news choppers too. People are going to stop caring about helicopters really quickly, unless they are REALLY desperate. The waters in GLS didnt look desperation-deep in most spots to me.

[soonertwister]

There is indeed a temporary flight restriction around much of the SE TX and SW LA coasts. This is only at low altitudes with the intent that there is less concern about collission with the dozens of rescue holicopters. I do not know if that piper cub that took the Bolivar pictures was cleared into that TFR(it might have been), or if there is even an operating ATC facility that cares.

As for people not waving to the news copter... there have been 100s of helicopters crossing that area all day now. Police scouts. CG rescue choppers. Heavy national guard transports. Now news choppers too. People are going to stop caring about helicopters really quickly, unless they are REALLY desperate. The waters in GLS didnt look desperation-deep in most spots to me.

General aviation cannot fly below 1200 feet AGL in populated places, above the level at which rescue aircraft operate.

[fasterdisaster]

Are you guys sure the no-fly isn't just due to media sanitation? That would make the most sense to me.

[Extremeweatherguy]

Just breezy here in OKC, but over in eastern Oklahoma I have seen reports of wind gusts to near 50mph as Ike passes by. That is pretty intense considering this storm made landfall nearly 24 hours ago!

Here is a report from Muskogee, OK which occurred at 10:53pm...
N 38 G 49

[Mattie]

FWIW, something is just not right about Galveston. I saw a report where they made 900+ rescues in ORANGE, but I haven't seen much of anything from Galveston. I am strongly thinking that there just isn't anyone there. Even with Katrina, there were tons of people on roofs, etc. There is absolutely no sign of life in Galveston and even with a video that made it to U-Tube by a military aircraft. Here it is 12:46 a.m. and sleep escapes me ...

[thunderchief]

"General aviation cannot fly below 1200 feet AGL in populated places"

not quite. First of all, its 1000 feet over 'cities'. Most terrain isnt "city" in FAA language.

Secondly, its 500 feet away from any person or property anywhere else(99.9% of the nation).

Thirdly, its not a rule that is given much attention. As long as you dont buzz your buddies house, the FAA doesnt care what little cessnas and cubs do.

[fasterdisaster]

KHOU seemed to say less people than should have been were answering on the Galveston door-to-door.

I'll try to be optimistic and say they were just in a neighborhood where more people left than the rest of the island.

[opera ghost]

KHOU seemed to say less people than should have been were answering on the Galveston door-to-door.

I'll try to be optimistic and say they were just in a neighborhood where more people left than the rest of the island.

And the door to door general searches (through the night) aren't entering buildings without answers unless the building has damage. Presumably there will be more detailed searches tomorrow.

[PTrackerLA]

Let's just hope most of the people "that were still on the island" found a way out before the storm, are at a shelter, or are simply staying in there homes. I agree that there was very little in the way of footage from Galveston today, we kept seeing the same parts. I highly doubt that there were many lives lost on Galveston because I don't think there would be a cover-up or anything like that. Another point which has hardly been covered in the media is the extensive storm surge flooding that occured along the Louisiana coast. I strongly feared this as Ike's path crept further up the coast and sure enough, in many areas, the surge is worse than Rita's. The high water record at Sabine pass was over 14', beating the records set by Rita and Audrey by nearly 4'. Devastating storm for a huge area.

[thunderchief]

The FAA doesnt care about blocking media from taking pictures. This isnt russia. And they have bigger concerns. Liking getting IAH back up and running.

What would be TERRIBLE for the FAA, would be to have every news network in the world start broadcasting the fatal collision of a news chopper with a coast guard rescue chopper. Trust me, that is there main concern with the TFR.

[AdvAutoBob]

Suffice to say, I'd think Ike's another retired "I" name (I hope simply for property damage and not death toll - the lack of real news out of some of the areas doesn't bode well).

Reading some of the posts in the KHOU forums is simply heartbreaking... I really feel for those people.