so was Ivan really a Cat 3? at landfall

[Brent]

ivan was one of the most destructive hurricanes, it was a war zone here for a while

A lot of Ivan's worst damage was the surge... it's surge was still that of a Strong 4 because it had been that intensity for days until right before landfall. Pensacola would have wiped off the map if Ivan had still been a Strong 4 when it came in... much less a 5.

[Ivanhater]

very true, but the winds we also very powerful, 60 to 80 percent of the tree canopy was gone the morning after, and walking outside for the first time almost made your heart stop

[SouthernWx]

The damage wasn't as bad as Andrew because there just weren't as many buildings back then.

Harrison Co., MS damage photos

still the damage wold have still been worse if the buildings where either washed out to sea or just gone with out a trace. and or even loose ground would be dug up by the winds possibly. maybe exposing pipes has that ever happened???

Here's something folks must remember then comparing Camille's wind damage to Andrew's:

In August 1969, there was virtually no structures located along the Mississippi coast once you went inland more than five miles. I know, because it was the same way in the Florida panhandle....you'd leave Panama City and head north into nothing but piney woods for miles (until you reached Dothan, AL over 70 miles inland).

In southern Mississippi, it was just as sparsely populated if not more so. Hurricane Camille's storm surge obliterated everything within five miles of the beachfront.....and north of this, there were virtually NO structures for the 180-200+ mph wind gusts to destroy.....not until you reached Columbia or Hattiesburg.

In southern Mississippi....along and east of Camille's track, there were mile upon mile of obliterated pine forests....consistent (per Dr Saffir and John Hope) with wind speeds in excess of 150 mph. You can't photograph F2/F3 tornado damage of a house which doesn't exist.

Compare that to highly populated south Dade county, Florida during Andrew....where structures existed and were badly damaged/ destroyed from the mangroves near Homestead and Cutler Ridge into agricultural areas in the edge of the Everglades. Did the winds suddenly "drop" and not damage any homes any farther inland? No, Andrew was a powerful hurricane across the Everglades and into the GOM south of Marco Island and Naples...there was massive damage to trees, foliage, and ranger facilities located inside Everglades National Park.....but there were no homes, retail structures, or condos in the core region in this area, and thus no photos of the damage. You can't photograph destroyed structures which don't exist....not in Everglades National Park in 1992 nor 10, 20, or 50 miles inland from Gulfport, Mississippi in August 1969.

PW

[Ivanhater]

here is a good photo gallery of ivan damage

http://www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/new ... ries.shtml

good picture of tree damage, even has bush in it
http://www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/new ... oto7.shtml

[Jim Cantore]

No contest and without doubt Camille is the most powerful hurricane to hit the U.S (on record)

Please, The 1935 Labor Day Hurricane was far stronger windwise then Camille (Just my opinion as I think it was the only 200 mph hurricane and Camille was in the Andrew range of 175-180 mph). Unlike Camille, this one has the pressure to back up its intensity along with its small size.

I say that because Camilles effects where more widespead and it's surge and damage were alot worse

the 1935 storm was stronger but it's small size limited the effects to a small area

[Jim Cantore]

I've heard reported gusts in Biloxi near 223mph

OH SURE!!!

I didn't say they were confirmed

[Jim Cantore]

No way Camille was 200 mph, maybe the 1935 Keys hurricane was. Camille was in the range of 170-175 mph. I have no idea where people get 200 mph from, as the best track indicated 190 mph and that was before landfall(the pressure rose).

Agreed I dont even thinks its close to 200 mph.

Find me, I dare you, a worse picture of wind damage from Camille than this from Andrew.
http://flare.creighton.edu/martinelli/a ... andrew.jpg

Gees it is almost as if andrew was a tropical tornado! It didn't leave anything standing! He meant buisness! and to think that he was the only hurricane in 1992.

I found my almonac the other day and it says that Andrew caused 20.0 billion dollars in damage. It was the costliest natural disaster in US history. As of 2001 the second place disaster was the northridge earthquake (12.5 Billion) third Hugo (7.0 billion) and 4th is Betsy (6.5 billion).

If Camille hit where Andrew did Andrew would be the second costliest storm ever because Camilles damage might have exceeded 40-45 billion dollars.