2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1741 Postby Spacecoast » Sun Aug 11, 2024 9:56 am

LarryWx wrote:
Based on this, I’m educatedly guessing that ~75% of the 8/9+ ACE will be W of 60W. I’m guessing that there will be another 160 ACE 8/9+. So, 75% of 160 is 120. So, I’m guessing the 8/9+ W of 60W ACE will be 120.


As usual, you have provided excellent stats / analysis..

At this time last year (8/3/23), observed ACE W of 60 was only 25% of total NATL (16 divided by 4). 2023 ended with 48% W of 60 (146 divided by 78), so there is a lot of variation from season to season.

It would be nice if CSU broke out these numbers in their real time statistics...
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1742 Postby Category5Kaiju » Sun Aug 11, 2024 3:52 pm

I've noticed that the global model thread has been getting some recent posts leaning more into this topic, so I've decided to make my remarks here instead.

Basically, even if the models don't show anything now, I'm betting on my own house that that's going to change during the latter part of this month. As I mentioned some weeks back, I seriously believe that Beryl was a warning sign and not just random event that happened for absolutely no reason. August 20 guys, just remember that :lol:
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1743 Postby SFLcane » Sun Aug 11, 2024 5:10 pm

Rather Impressive signal finally showing up just in time to ring the bell! ... :eek:

Image

Image

Image
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1744 Postby AnnularCane » Sun Aug 11, 2024 7:18 pm

I'm sure I'm missing something totally obvious, but what dates are those for?
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1745 Postby FireRat » Sun Aug 11, 2024 9:17 pm

Category5Kaiju wrote:I've noticed that the global model thread has been getting some recent posts leaning more into this topic, so I've decided to make my remarks here instead.

Basically, even if the models don't show anything now, I'm betting on my own house that that's going to change during the latter part of this month. As I mentioned some weeks back, I seriously believe that Beryl was a warning sign and not just random event that happened for absolutely no reason. August 20 guys, just remember that :lol:


Oh yeah, Beryl was certainly a warning shot of some kind.
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1746 Postby tolakram » Sun Aug 11, 2024 9:39 pm

AnnularCane wrote:I'm sure I'm missing something totally obvious, but what dates are those for?



8/11 + 360 or more hours. Top right, UTC+(blahblah)
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1747 Postby chaser1 » Sun Aug 11, 2024 9:42 pm

AnnularCane wrote:I'm sure I'm missing something totally obvious, but what dates are those for?


That's too funny, I was thinking the same thing :lol:
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1748 Postby Category5Kaiju » Mon Aug 12, 2024 7:19 am

Some months ago, I recall a Storm2k member (can't remember which one exactly) who thought that maybe there is an inverse correlation between total NS count and seasons with many powerful, long-tracked Cape Verde hurricanes. The examples brought to the table were 1933/1995/2004/2017 and 2005/2020. Granted, the sample size is kind of small, but the seasons with a firehouse of activity and a NS count in the high 20s+ also did not feature many strong Cape Verde hurricanes (Emily in 2005 and Teddy in 2020 as the only ones really), whereas the other years, you know, were the exact opposite but featured a total NS count from the mid-10s to the low-20s. The Atlantic has yet to demonstrate that it can generate a season with 28+ NSs but also feature many powerful, long-lived Cape Verde hurricanes.

With that being said, I could totally see a possibility where this season ends with a NS count in the upper-10s/low-20s and extremely high ACE (like, over 200) and 6-7 major hurricanes. I wouldn't necessarily call that a bust, unless you refer to the predictions with over 25 NSs. That's still an extremely active season and nothing to scoff at.
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1749 Postby LarryWx » Mon Aug 12, 2024 7:30 am

chaser1 wrote:
AnnularCane wrote:I'm sure I'm missing something totally obvious, but what dates are those for?


That's too funny, I was thinking the same thing :lol:


Top chart is anomaly for 8/26-9/1. Next one is anomaly for 9/2-8. Final is for actual prediction (not anomaly) for 8/26-9/1.
Last edited by LarryWx on Mon Aug 12, 2024 7:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1750 Postby LarryWx » Mon Aug 12, 2024 7:34 am

Category5Kaiju wrote:Some months ago, I recall a Storm2k member (can't remember which one exactly) who thought that maybe there is an inverse correlation between total NS count and seasons with many powerful, long-tracked Cape Verde hurricanes. The examples brought to the table were 1933/1995/2004/2017 and 2005/2020. Granted, the sample size is kind of small, but the seasons with a firehouse of activity and a NS count in the high 20s+ also did not feature many strong Cape Verde hurricanes (Emily in 2005 and Teddy in 2020 as the only ones really), whereas the other years, you know, were the exact opposite but featured a total NS count from the mid-10s to the low-20s. The Atlantic has yet to demonstrate that it can generate a season with 28+ NSs but also feature many powerful, long-lived Cape Verde hurricanes.

With that being said, I could totally see a possibility where this season ends with a NS count in the upper-10s/low-20s and extremely high ACE (like, over 200) and 6-7 major hurricanes. I wouldn't necessarily call that a bust, unless you refer to the predictions with over 25 NSs. That's still an extremely active season and nothing to scoff at.


I still feel good about my 21/10/5 contest prediction. My latest analog based ACE prediction due to having the 5th highest ACE on record back to 1851 as of 8/8 is for another ~160 (total of ~200) with ~75% of that (another ~120) ACE W of 60W rest of the year. Along with that, I’m thinking another 3-4 CONUS H landfalls, bringing it up to 5-6 (record high is 6).
By the way, I’d love nothing more than my predictions ending up too high. So, I’m not -removed-.
Last edited by LarryWx on Mon Aug 12, 2024 7:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1751 Postby toad strangler » Mon Aug 12, 2024 7:55 am

AnnularCane wrote:I'm sure I'm missing something totally obvious, but what dates are those for?


Map 1 (top) 15-22 days from 8/11
Map 2 (middle) 22-29 days from 8/11
Map 3 (bottom)15-22 days from 8/11 (different strike parameters than map 1)
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1752 Postby SFLcane » Mon Aug 12, 2024 8:31 am

SFLcane wrote:Rather Impressive signal finally showing up just in time to ring the bell! ... :eek:

https://i.postimg.cc/N0py9R0p/hhh.png

https://i.postimg.cc/9Mkr1VZ9/nnnn.png

https://i.postimg.cc/nzrXvMjZ/bbbb.png


These maps are from the Euro weeklies which can be found here.

https://charts.ecmwf.int/products/mofc_ ... 2408190000

https://www.ecmwf.int/en/forecasts/docu ... -forecasts
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1753 Postby toad strangler » Mon Aug 12, 2024 8:38 am

A snippet from Michael Lowry's new update ..... patience >>>>>>>>>>

Though long-range models don’t currently show any looming threats behind soon-to-be Ernesto, the Atlantic will stay in a broadly conducive configuration for tropical development for the rest of the month.
As we’ve learned with recent storms, the forecast models struggle with detecting potential genesis until a system is closer to forming, so we look at the overall pattern to determine whether activity will persist or settle down beyond a week. There’s nothing right now to suggest a slowdown ahead, so we’ll keep close tabs on the tropical waves rolling off Africa and into the deep Atlantic as primetime hurricane season settles in.

Forecast areas of abnormal rising air (cooler colors) and abnormal sinking air (warmer colors) across the global tropical band from the European forecast model ensemble system. The black line indicates today’s date and everything below the line is a forecast through middle September. The map cutout on the very bottom shows the area of the globe over which we find abnormal rising air or sinking air. When the rising air branch gets “stuck” over the north Indian Ocean and Africa as is indicated in the dark shaded box, it suggests a favorable regime for tropical development in the Atlantic. This coincides with a climatologically favored time of year for hurricane development in the Atlantic, so we don’t expect any prolonged slowdown to the activity. Credit: ECMWF

Image
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1754 Postby SFLcane » Mon Aug 12, 2024 8:44 am

toad strangler wrote:A snippet from Michael Lowry's new update ..... patience >>>>>>>>>>

Though long-range models don’t currently show any looming threats behind soon-to-be Ernesto, the Atlantic will stay in a broadly conducive configuration for tropical development for the rest of the month.
As we’ve learned with recent storms, the forecast models struggle with detecting potential genesis until a system is closer to forming, so we look at the overall pattern to determine whether activity will persist or settle down beyond a week. There’s nothing right now to suggest a slowdown ahead, so we’ll keep close tabs on the tropical waves rolling off Africa and into the deep Atlantic as primetime hurricane season settles in.

Forecast areas of abnormal rising air (cooler colors) and abnormal sinking air (warmer colors) across the global tropical band from the European forecast model ensemble system. The black line indicates today’s date and everything below the line is a forecast through middle September. The map cutout on the very bottom shows the area of the globe over which we find abnormal rising air or sinking air. When the rising air branch gets “stuck” over the north Indian Ocean and Africa as is indicated in the dark shaded box, it suggests a favorable regime for tropical development in the Atlantic. This coincides with a climatologically favored time of year for hurricane development in the Atlantic, so we don’t expect any prolonged slowdown to the activity. Credit: ECMWF

https://i.postimg.cc/9XZ5vMVf/Capture-4.jpg


Only a matter of time!
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1755 Postby tolakram » Mon Aug 12, 2024 10:37 am

I'll say what I said a few months ago.

Storm count is of questionable value.
You can't predict an outlier.

This is going to be a bad season, I don't really care how many but I do hope all stay away from land.
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1756 Postby Category5Kaiju » Mon Aug 12, 2024 5:21 pm

toad strangler wrote:A snippet from Michael Lowry's new update ..... patience >>>>>>>>>>

Though long-range models don’t currently show any looming threats behind soon-to-be Ernesto, the Atlantic will stay in a broadly conducive configuration for tropical development for the rest of the month.
As we’ve learned with recent storms, the forecast models struggle with detecting potential genesis until a system is closer to forming, so we look at the overall pattern to determine whether activity will persist or settle down beyond a week. There’s nothing right now to suggest a slowdown ahead, so we’ll keep close tabs on the tropical waves rolling off Africa and into the deep Atlantic as primetime hurricane season settles in.

Forecast areas of abnormal rising air (cooler colors) and abnormal sinking air (warmer colors) across the global tropical band from the European forecast model ensemble system. The black line indicates today’s date and everything below the line is a forecast through middle September. The map cutout on the very bottom shows the area of the globe over which we find abnormal rising air or sinking air. When the rising air branch gets “stuck” over the north Indian Ocean and Africa as is indicated in the dark shaded box, it suggests a favorable regime for tropical development in the Atlantic. This coincides with a climatologically favored time of year for hurricane development in the Atlantic, so we don’t expect any prolonged slowdown to the activity. Credit: ECMWF

https://i.postimg.cc/9XZ5vMVf/Capture-4.jpg


I think I've learned that even a Category 5 hurricane in early July will never stop "season cancel" :lol: . Thankfully that's not really a thing on Storm2k, but on other social media wx sites, it's being thrown around quite a bit. Mainly by individuals who take long range models as gospel and don't really look at other more overarching factors.

I also think it's important to understand that the Atlantic is already at 40 ACE, with much more to come if Ernesto ends up becoming a powerful, recurving hurricane. If these aren't signs of a busy season (at least ACE-wise), then I really don't know what is.
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1757 Postby SFLcane » Mon Aug 12, 2024 6:16 pm

New CS3 with a pretty threatening pattern near the conus if it came to pass.

Image
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1758 Postby weeniepatrol » Mon Aug 12, 2024 6:20 pm

Image

Why on Earth are there 30 C SSTs NE of Bermuda? OISST and Coral Reef Watch corroborate this so it isn't just another CDAS moment
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1759 Postby AnnularCane » Mon Aug 12, 2024 6:40 pm

Category5Kaiju wrote:
toad strangler wrote:A snippet from Michael Lowry's new update ..... patience >>>>>>>>>>

Though long-range models don’t currently show any looming threats behind soon-to-be Ernesto, the Atlantic will stay in a broadly conducive configuration for tropical development for the rest of the month.
As we’ve learned with recent storms, the forecast models struggle with detecting potential genesis until a system is closer to forming, so we look at the overall pattern to determine whether activity will persist or settle down beyond a week. There’s nothing right now to suggest a slowdown ahead, so we’ll keep close tabs on the tropical waves rolling off Africa and into the deep Atlantic as primetime hurricane season settles in.

Forecast areas of abnormal rising air (cooler colors) and abnormal sinking air (warmer colors) across the global tropical band from the European forecast model ensemble system. The black line indicates today’s date and everything below the line is a forecast through middle September. The map cutout on the very bottom shows the area of the globe over which we find abnormal rising air or sinking air. When the rising air branch gets “stuck” over the north Indian Ocean and Africa as is indicated in the dark shaded box, it suggests a favorable regime for tropical development in the Atlantic. This coincides with a climatologically favored time of year for hurricane development in the Atlantic, so we don’t expect any prolonged slowdown to the activity. Credit: ECMWF

https://i.postimg.cc/9XZ5vMVf/Capture-4.jpg


I think I've learned that even a Category 5 hurricane in early July will never stop "season cancel" :lol: . Thankfully that's not really a thing on Storm2k, but on other social media wx sites, it's being thrown around quite a bit. Mainly by individuals who take long range models as gospel and don't really look at other more overarching factors.

I also think it's important to understand that the Atlantic is already at 40 ACE, with much more to come if Ernesto ends up becoming a powerful, recurving hurricane. If these aren't signs of a busy season (at least ACE-wise), then I really don't know what is.



Oh, there is season cancelling here too, believe me. 8-) I recall it being pretty rampant in 2019 up until Chantal and Dorian. And in 2005, apparently even Dennis and Emily weren't enough to stop it.
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Re: 2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#1760 Postby Teban54 » Mon Aug 12, 2024 7:05 pm

AnnularCane wrote:And in 2005, apparently even Dennis and Emily weren't enough to stop it.

IIRC, in 2005 there was a New Orleans-based user season canceling a week or two before Katrina hit.
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