can a hurricane redevelope over a lake

[Patrick99]

Yeah, I've often wondered this. A true tropical cyclone...strong hurricane hits WPB from the Atlantic, traveling due west. Suddenly it parks itself over ultra-warm Lake Okeechobee. Does it glean any energy at all from the lake waters? Is the "Big O" big enough for that?

[P.K.]

There is also an entire class of hurricane-like vortices that develop in polar regions, known as polar lows. They also have many structural resemblances to tropical cyclones.

They look really good when they form. We had several commas down here over the winter, I'm not sure how far south any of the polar lows went.

[P.K.]

More cyclone over lakes!!!

http://www.metoffice.com/sec2/sec2cyclo ... c2003a.gif

Well, the Mediterranean Sea is actually far from a lake, but yes, tropical cyclones have formed in the Mediterranean. It has also been noted for them to form in the Black Sea, also a sea, but much more "lake-like" than the Mediterranean.

lol, yes it is hardly a lake.

Dr Beven's webpage on the 1995 Med "Hurricane" says it was probably a polar low. http://www.mindspring.com/~jbeven/intr0008.htm

Talking of Moroccan Vortices there was one visible a couple of months ago, sadly I don't remember when it was but it looked rather good.

[PurdueWx80]

Check this out:



This is an MCV (mesoscale convective vortex) with intense convection that caused WIDESPREAD wind damage across much of the Midwest and Northeast 2 summers ago. Numerous tornadoes were also reported in PA with this, one tearing down a famous rail bridge (the name escapes me now). Mesoscale winds outside of thunderstorms showed a very distinct cyclonic circulation with speeds gusting upwards of 50 mph - outside of storms! This is probably the closest thing to a landcane as you can get - and is the subject of much research now.

Here's the rest of the article from the HPC - interesting read: http://www.hpc.ncep.noaa.gov/research/r ... dcane.html

[jasons2k]

Check this out:



This is an MCV (mesoscale convective vortex) with intense convection that caused WIDESPREAD wind damage across much of the Midwest and Northeast 2 summers ago. Numerous tornadoes were also reported in PA with this, one tearing down a famous rail bridge (the name escapes me now). Mesoscale winds outside of thunderstorms showed a very distinct cyclonic circulation with speeds gusting upwards of 50 mph - outside of storms! This is probably the closest thing to a landcane as you can get - and is the subject of much research now.

Here's the rest of the article from the HPC - interesting read: http://www.hpc.ncep.noaa.gov/research/r ... dcane.html

Could this be the same phenomenon as posted by Soonertwister or the Texas Landcane cited in the 1800's? I have lived in the DFW area since 1988 (before coming to Houston) and this is the first I had heard about either incident. Does anyone have any more info. on those?

[beachbum_al]

Cool! See I learn something new everyday.

[otowntiger]

This has become quite an interesting thread. I know that it morphed into something more interesting but a little back on the original question: If I'm not mistaken, a few years ago a tropical storm actually formed over Lake Pontchartrain in Louisiana. It moved out into the GOM from there and continued to strengthen. I don't recall if it became a hurricane. Anybody remember that and have more/better details?

[TexasStooge]

is it possible for a hurricane to to redevelope over a lake in to at least a tropical depression if it is warm enough

It all depends on the size of a lake and how warm the waters are.

If in the Great Lakes, it may strengthen to just a TD before making landfall.

[smashmode]

Is that vortex in Pennsylvania? Where did it gets it energy?

[PurdueWx80]

Is that vortex in Pennsylvania? Where did it gets it energy?

Somewhat similar to the way hurricanes do, by latent heat release from the strong convection surrounding the circulation. Other factors came into play here - and the system is most certainly baroclinic with some obvious tropical-like characteristics. Tropical systems often form from mesoscale convective vortices like this (in other words, the mid-level circulation center).

FYI - there is a strong MCV over south-central Wisconsin this morning. The structure is quite different from the one in PA 2 summers ago, but it is still rather interesting:



Check out the loop to see the cyclonic motion:

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/radar/loop/DS.p ... kmkx.shtml

[mike18xx]

Regarding on-land MCCs, I remember one about fifteen years ago that moved NE from Nebraska up to near Rochester, MN over the course of several hours in, IIRC, early August. Temps around the thing were upper 90s with upper-70 dewpoints; it was not near any frontal boundary. It did not appear to exhibit any "cold core" in its profile, and it was wide-spread hail maker.

[Hurricanehink]

This has become quite an interesting thread. I know that it morphed into something more interesting but a little back on the original question: If I'm not mistaken, a few years ago a tropical storm actually formed over Lake Pontchartrain in Louisiana. It moved out into the GOM from there and continued to strengthen. I don't recall if it became a hurricane. Anybody remember that and have more/better details?

Tropical Storm Beryl from 1988.

[otowntiger]

Thanks HurricaneHink. Thats the one (Beryl) I was thinking of. Didn't realize that it was that long ago. It appears she developed over the lake and meandered around the mouth of the Miss. before coming back inland. Very unusual. Obviously she was not that strong nor could she have had a very big circulation to be able to form there.

[Astro_man92]

i just reread all this and i can't get over any of it at all

[NEXRAD]

For (somewhat) related interest... some particularly intense supercells can take-on a hurricane appearance: http://www.spc.noaa.gov/coolimg/nc_storm/. This past winter there was also an unusual number of wake lows behind various decaying mesoconvective clusters that moved over Florida. One of these produced hurricane-force wind gusts across portions of South West and West Central Florida.

- Jay
KSC FL

[Astro_man92]

sorry I'm biringing this topic back to the front but I was wondering if anyone had any experiances with one of these "Hurricanes" or had any references that thy wanted to share??

[HurricaneGirl]

Interesting Stuff!

[Astro_man92]

Interesting Stuff!

Yes it really is!!

[HurricaneBill]

Didn't Hurricane Danny in 1997 form from a MCV?

[NCHurricane]

I had read about polar lows and the hurricane-like features in the Med in Hurricanes! by Peter Chaston. He didn't have as many graphical references as you have shown here, but interesting stuff none the less. Great thread!