NO mayor on Oprah

[chrisnnavarre]

Using a metaphore along the lines of a nuclear weapon has nothing to do with this. This is a weather event. All that metaphore does is hyping for dramatic effect, but a cat 4 storm does not need to be hyped. I'm sure the decision making is a bit different in the event of global nuclear war.

They may want to base future planning on just that type of scenario, i.e. the creation of a JTF (Joint Task Force) in order to coordinate regional military assets at the Federal level, and DOD level immediately after the storm.

We had Pave-Loaders (those really Big Helicopters) just sitting here at Hurlbert Field for days after that levy broke.

[mf_dolphin]

Those are Pave Low helicopters and they are designed for Special Operations mission like inserting commando's covertly. They are in no way equiped for rescue missions.

[oneness]

Interesting Chris, because that was one of the things Nagin and others in NO said, i.e. he was surprised, and eventually furious that a large fleet of civil and military helicopters did not appear at first-light Tuesday, nor in the late afternoon.

So the question is, why didn't they appear immediately if they were sitting nearby doing nothing and people were drowning in numbers that day as the city flooded?

EDIT: question answered by mf_dolphin

[mf_dolphin]

Here's some info on the Pave Low:

http://www.af.mil/history/aircraft.asp? ... =123006551

Great helicopter, just the wrong tool for this mission

[aumoore]

Most all Military Aricraft are considered wepons first. Some Helicopters are built to move personnal from locaton to location but lack the ability to pluck people from rooftops. Other than the Coast Guard there are very few helicopters equiped for rescue missions. Most large MIlitary Ships have ONE copter for rescue. So what do we do. Move the entire Coast Guard Helicopter fleet to NO along with every large ships rescue copter? What happens when someone needs rescue in say Maine, Florida, California etc?

Lets face it we do not have fleets of rescue copters and personnal to fly them stationed in every other state waiting to rescue hundreds of thousands of people. The same people who should have left when warned or at least gotton to higher ground shelters. If they had run the school buses thru NO and sent these people to safe havens like the Dome or schools in higher ground areas many many less would have perished. Heck if they had ordered the manditory evacs on Saturday they could have had everyone walk to the shelters.

[CentralFlGal]

Didn't local officials stage a mock-up of this type of scenario last year? I've heard from family members that there were approximately 30 points during the exercise that failed and were never addressed in time before Katrina hit.

I'm unable to find anything regarding this on the 'net - does anyone here have more information on this alleged occurrence?

[alicia-w]

http://newstandardnews.net/content/?action=show_item&itemid=2322

I cannot attest to the integrity of this site.

[GalvestonDuck]

Didn't local officials stage a mock-up of this type of scenario last year? I've heard from family members that there were approximately 30 points during the exercise that failed and were never addressed in time before Katrina hit.

I'm unable to find anything regarding this on the 'net - does anyone here have more information on this alleged occurrence?

Alicia beat me to it -- but this article is different (also, about "Hurricane Pam")
http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=13051

[jasons2k]

The City of NO did not fail the citizens. I'm local and I'd be the first to criticize. The absolute failure rests with FEMA, IMO. The call to them was immediate, yet response was not available for over 48 hours. This is the failure....

I couldn't disagree more Sean. The initial response after the event is the direct responsibility of the state. Some questions that need answering IMO:

1. Nagin referred a couple of times to "legal issues" that prevented him from calling for a mandatory evac sooner. What ever they are they need to be fixed now!

2. Where was the LA National Guard on day 1-2-3? There wasn't any sign of them in the city for sure. Keep in mind that these are state resources under direct control of the Govenor.

3. Why were only 900 National Guard troops initially requested by the State's Homeland Secutiry coordinator? Does anyone on this board think that was anywhere close to realistic?

4. Why does even a "Refuge of Last Resort" not have prepositioned food and water?

5. Why when the scope of this disaster was obvious to all did the Gov drag her feet on the federalization of the response?

Again folks, there is plenty of blame to go around but we all need to understand that the initial response is the responsibility of the state. That goes for all of us that live in a hurricane prone area. We'd all better ask our own state officials what their plans are.....

Hey MF - I have to confess something. Last week, in my emotional distress, I think I was not in the same page as you with this one. I have since read the disaster plan along with additional research and I have the same conclusion you have - the state/city dropped the ball. It explicity states that they request federal resources "as needed", among other things, and this was not executed according to the already documented plan.

[mf_dolphin]

The City of NO did not fail the citizens. I'm local and I'd be the first to criticize. The absolute failure rests with FEMA, IMO. The call to them was immediate, yet response was not available for over 48 hours. This is the failure....

I couldn't disagree more Sean. The initial response after the event is the direct responsibility of the state. Some questions that need answering IMO:

1. Nagin referred a couple of times to "legal issues" that prevented him from calling for a mandatory evac sooner. What ever they are they need to be fixed now!

2. Where was the LA National Guard on day 1-2-3? There wasn't any sign of them in the city for sure. Keep in mind that these are state resources under direct control of the Govenor.

3. Why were only 900 National Guard troops initially requested by the State's Homeland Secutiry coordinator? Does anyone on this board think that was anywhere close to realistic?

4. Why does even a "Refuge of Last Resort" not have prepositioned food and water?

5. Why when the scope of this disaster was obvious to all did the Gov drag her feet on the federalization of the response?

Again folks, there is plenty of blame to go around but we all need to understand that the initial response is the responsibility of the state. That goes for all of us that live in a hurricane prone area. We'd all better ask our own state officials what their plans are.....

Hey MF - I have to confess something. Last week, in my emotional distress, I think I was not in the same page as you with this one. I have since read the disaster plan along with additional research and I have the same conclusion you have - the state/city dropped the ball. It explicity states that they request federal resources "as needed", among other things, and this was not executed according to the already documented plan.

Thanks! While the Feds have dropped the ball in a lot of areas I still stand that the LA State Gov. is going to bear the brunt of the responsibilty for the lack of an early response to this disaster. IMO she's still one of the biggest problems.

[jasons2k]

The City of NO did not fail the citizens. I'm local and I'd be the first to criticize. The absolute failure rests with FEMA, IMO. The call to them was immediate, yet response was not available for over 48 hours. This is the failure....

I couldn't disagree more Sean. The initial response after the event is the direct responsibility of the state. Some questions that need answering IMO:

1. Nagin referred a couple of times to "legal issues" that prevented him from calling for a mandatory evac sooner. What ever they are they need to be fixed now!

2. Where was the LA National Guard on day 1-2-3? There wasn't any sign of them in the city for sure. Keep in mind that these are state resources under direct control of the Govenor.

3. Why were only 900 National Guard troops initially requested by the State's Homeland Secutiry coordinator? Does anyone on this board think that was anywhere close to realistic?

4. Why does even a "Refuge of Last Resort" not have prepositioned food and water?

5. Why when the scope of this disaster was obvious to all did the Gov drag her feet on the federalization of the response?

Again folks, there is plenty of blame to go around but we all need to understand that the initial response is the responsibility of the state. That goes for all of us that live in a hurricane prone area. We'd all better ask our own state officials what their plans are.....

Hey MF - I have to confess something. Last week, in my emotional distress, I think I was not in the same page as you with this one. I have since read the disaster plan along with additional research and I have the same conclusion you have - the state/city dropped the ball. It explicity states that they request federal resources "as needed", among other things, and this was not executed according to the already documented plan.

Thanks! While the Feds have dropped the ball in a lot of areas I still stand that the LA State Gov. is going to bear the brunt of the responsibilty for the lack of an early response to this disaster. IMO she's still one of the biggest problems.

Yes, I agree, esp. now with her trying to retract the Mayor's request to continue evacuations so she can 'further assess' the water situation - even though the CDC says it is now 10X as toxic as the limit. Grrrrrrr.

[gtalum]

People who are apprised of the danger and choose nto to evacuate shouldn't be forced to. Remember, this is still America.

[GalvestonDuck]

People who are apprised of the danger and choose nto to evacuate shouldn't be forced to. Remember, this is still America.

Even when it poses a health risk to the rest of us?

[jasons2k]

People who are apprised of the danger and choose nto to evacuate shouldn't be forced to. Remember, this is still America.

Even when it poses a health risk to the rest of us?

Exactly! And who's gonna foot the bill when the rescue call goes out next week because they contracted who knows what? Then, who's gonna foot the hospital bills?

[gtalum]

Even when it poses a health risk to the rest of us?

I don't see how they pose a health risk to the rest of us, but assuming you are correct, yes, even so.

We allow people to smoke, despite the health risks to the rest of us. We allow people to drive, despite the health risks to the rest of us.

We allow poeple to build below sea level despit ethe massive financial risk to the rest of us.

This is America, and forcing people out of their homes isn't what we do. Besides, someone has to stay around to rebuild New orleans. It's not feasible to completely close an American city for months.

Besides, I'm of the opinion that the risks have been greatly magnified by a media itching for a big story.

[oneness]

Besides, I'm of the opinion that the risks have been greatly magnified by a media itching for a big story.

ah! ... I think that's what many people said on the 28th of August ...

[GalvestonDuck]

They don't post a threat to us...yet. But they're being exposed to that crap in the water. Don't we bear some responsibility in preventing the spread of diseases in epidemic proportions? If we get them out now and get them to cleaner environments, we can keep them healthy and keep the rest of us healthy.

[gtalum]

ah! ... I think that's what many people said on the 28th of August ...

And they were clearly ignorant and wrong.

OTOH, I know people who are in NO right now and claim that things have settled down. There are even bars open.

[x-y-no]

ah! ... I think that's what many people said on the 28th of August ...

And they were clearly ignorant and wrong.

OTOH, I know people who are in NO right now and claim that things have settled down. There are even bars open.

Take it from an old (recovered) alcoholic ... getting the bars open is way more important than restoring civil order.

[stormie_skies]

Hahaha.....yeah, thats New Orleans for ya.....