ATL: ELSA - Post-Tropical - Discussion

Moderator: S2k Moderators

Message
Author
User avatar
Hammy
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 5849
Age: 42
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 5:25 pm
Contact:

Re: ATL: ELSA - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#2221 Postby Hammy » Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:31 pm

BYG Jacob wrote:Does anybody have a link to decent radar?


Guantanamo (higher resolution, shorter range) https://www.metoc.navy.mil/fwcn/animate.html?icao=mugm&type=CMaxZH240
Gran Piedra (longer range, lower resolution) http://www.insmet.cu/Radar/06Gran%20Piedra/gpdMAXw01a.gif
Cuba's radar found here: http://www.insmet.cu/asp/genesis.asp?TB0=PLANTILLAS&TB1=RADARES

There's also some live loops with the above Cuban radars of the full length of the storm that are updating here: https://bmcnoldy.rsmas.miami.edu/tropics/elsa21/

Unfortunately there is no radar from Haiti and I believe Jamaica's hasn't been up for some time.
1 likes   
The above post is not official and should not be used as such. It is the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. It is not endorsed by any professional institution or storm2k.org. For official information, please refer to the NHC and NWS products.

User avatar
Jr0d
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 1412
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:52 am
Location: Cayo Hueso

Re: ATL: ELSA - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#2222 Postby Jr0d » Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:32 pm

BYG Jacob wrote:Does anybody have a link to decent radar?


http://www.insmet.cu/asp/genesis.asp?TB ... B1=RADARES

You might need to use a proxy or incognito mode, I had trouble loading with a standard browser.
0 likes   

User avatar
Hammy
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 5849
Age: 42
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 5:25 pm
Contact:

Re: ATL: ELSA - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#2223 Postby Hammy » Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:34 pm

Michele B wrote:
Weather Dude wrote:
Michele B wrote:OK. Hubs and I having a major disagreement. He claims the “weather man up in Tallahassee” is saying that it broke up because it went over the mountains of Dominican republic. Doesn’t look like that to me, but we’re kind of arguing about it. Anybody got any insights?

It's not breaking up and it definitely didn't go over DR...



He’s literally reading it to me from their website!

And we wonder WHY people get confused.


I would go with NHC in cases like this. Elsa's outer bands went over the Dominican Republic but not enough to have any impact, and it's certainly not breaking up. The primary reason it's struggling is some self-induced wind shear due to the forward speed, essentially wind resistance at this point.
3 likes   
The above post is not official and should not be used as such. It is the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. It is not endorsed by any professional institution or storm2k.org. For official information, please refer to the NHC and NWS products.

User avatar
GCANE
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 11508
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:03 am

Re: ATL: ELSA - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#2224 Postby GCANE » Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:35 pm

Yup, that core has been intact for at least the last 5 hours.
Hot pink (37GHz radar) on the edge of that satellite pass.

Image
5 likes   

BYG Jacob

Re: ATL: ELSA - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#2225 Postby BYG Jacob » Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:37 pm

GCANE wrote:Yup, that core has been intact for at least the last 5 hours.
Hot pink (37GHz radar) on the edge of that satellite pass.

https://i.imgur.com/kSabLnt.jpg

Just needed the forward speed to slow down, or convergence over the center. Off we go
1 likes   

typhoonty
Tropical Storm
Tropical Storm
Posts: 121
Age: 30
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 10:37 pm
Location: Fort Myers / Tallahassee, FL
Contact:

Re: ATL: ELSA - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#2226 Postby typhoonty » Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:39 pm

wxman57 wrote:
typhoonty wrote:
wxman57 wrote:Center nearly fully exposed again. VERY interesting winds WSW of the main center. Winds out of the ENE southwest of Ella's center and it looks like recon found another weak center. Less than 24 hours before Elsa's center moves over Cuba, where it may spend 24 hours inland (and weakening. I still doubt it will have TS winds as it emerges off the coast of Cuba on Monday, but there could be some 35kt winds in the FL Straits to its north and northeast. Good gradient there. I'm predicting about 45 kts at landfall Tuesday afternoon. Could be weaker, as models are indicating.


I appreciate wxman57's analysis, even though he can be bearish sometimes. It's definitely a philosophy that generates respect. There's a very select few times where I've seen wxman57 be bullish on a storm. Pretty sure he was with Irma and Dorian if memory serves. The entire board knows that when wxman57 is bullish, you need to take the storm seriously. He probably has the lowest false alarm rate of anyone on here due to his conservative nature. He's not infallible, and no one is in this sphere, but I deeply respect his forecast philosophy. I enjoy the wealth of knowledge of the board and contrasting opinions of knowledgeable people with different levels of aggressiveness in forecasting.

When I finish my met degree at FSU, I hope to develop a philosophy as consistent as wxman57's. He doesn't change his forecasting process due to peer pressure, that's admirable for anyone.


Thanks, typhoonty. I'll let y'all know when I have a real concern, like the week before the big freeze this past February. I may be the Heat Miser, but I know a cold pattern when I see one. Look me up when you finish up your degree. We may have an opening on the tropical team, if you'd like to forecast TCs. I've been forecasting TCs around the world since 1980, my 42nd year. I used to be like many on the board here, anxious for something big to develop. Now, I would like to have a season with zero storms at all. Would be fine with me. I've dealt with those who have been severely impacted by TCs for decades. Here's hoping that Elsa is the last storm of the season...

By the way, I was joking about Elsa opening up into a wave. Thought I might rattle a few cages. It is an interesting wind field, though.


I know what you mean, what really got me interested in tropical meteorology was Charley's hook right into my area. So many people were caught off guard even though we were in the cone. I wanted to learn why there was an error in intensity and track and do everything possible to prevent that from happening again.

Most of the locals here were surprised that we got higher storm surge from Eta than Irma. The track forecast moving due north so close to the coast is concerning from an areal extent of potential storm surge. Though I doubt Elsa will get stronger than 50 kts on the north side of Cuba, storms moving northeast with the flow of potential shear tends to be less hostile than the magnitude of shear would suggest. And since shear is going to be somewhat more favorable north of Cuba, I hope it gets significant enough land interaction/core disruption to preclude any sudden intensification episodes like what happened on Friday.
5 likes   
FSU Meteorology student, opinions are mine, 20 years experience covering TC's, consult NHC/Local officials when making decisions.

Gabrielle '01, Michelle '01, Charley '04, Frances '04, Dennis '05, Katrina '05, Rita '05, Wilma '05, Fay '08, Isaac '12 Hermine '16, Irma '17, Michael '18, Eta '20, Elsa '21, IAN '22, Idalia '23, Debby '24, Helene '24

User avatar
DestinHurricane
Category 4
Category 4
Posts: 935
Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 8:05 am
Location: New York, NY

Re: ATL: ELSA - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#2227 Postby DestinHurricane » Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:42 pm

keep in mind NHC's forward speed is average over 6 hour. Based on recon, the speed has slowed in the past 3 hours, so the actual forward speed may be less than 28mph.
5 likes   
Michael 2018

User avatar
NDG
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 15448
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:14 pm
Location: Orlando, FL

Re: ATL: ELSA - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#2228 Postby NDG » Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:46 pm

DestinHurricane wrote:keep in mind NHC's forward speed is average over 6 hour. Based on recon, the speed has slowed in the past 3 hours, so the actual forward speed may be less than 28mph.


Based on the last 4 hours I calulated it to be down to 25 mph, tomorrow morning is forecasted to be down at upper teens mph then down to <15 mph in the afternoon.
1 likes   

User avatar
eastcoastFL
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 3900
Age: 43
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:29 pm
Location: Palm City, FL

Re: ATL: ELSA - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#2229 Postby eastcoastFL » Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:50 pm

Michele B wrote:OK. Hubs and I having a major disagreement. He claims the “weather man up in Tallahassee” is saying that it broke up because it went over the mountains of Dominican republic. Doesn’t look like that to me, but we’re kind of arguing about it. Anybody got any insights?


It didn’t go over DR at all and didn’t go over any mountains anywhere. You win!
3 likes   
Personal Forecast Disclaimer:
The posts in this forum are NOT official forecast and should not be used as such. They are just the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. They are NOT endorsed by any professional institution or storm2k.org. For official information, please refer to the NHC and NWS products.

User avatar
JaxGator
Category 2
Category 2
Posts: 780
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:33 pm
Location: Jacksonville Florida

Re: ATL: ELSA - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#2230 Postby JaxGator » Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:57 pm

typhoonty wrote:
wxman57 wrote:
typhoonty wrote:
I appreciate wxman57's analysis, even though he can be bearish sometimes. It's definitely a philosophy that generates respect. There's a very select few times where I've seen wxman57 be bullish on a storm. Pretty sure he was with Irma and Dorian if memory serves. The entire board knows that when wxman57 is bullish, you need to take the storm seriously. He probably has the lowest false alarm rate of anyone on here due to his conservative nature. He's not infallible, and no one is in this sphere, but I deeply respect his forecast philosophy. I enjoy the wealth of knowledge of the board and contrasting opinions of knowledgeable people with different levels of aggressiveness in forecasting.

When I finish my met degree at FSU, I hope to develop a philosophy as consistent as wxman57's. He doesn't change his forecasting process due to peer pressure, that's admirable for anyone.


Thanks, typhoonty. I'll let y'all know when I have a real concern, like the week before the big freeze this past February. I may be the Heat Miser, but I know a cold pattern when I see one. Look me up when you finish up your degree. We may have an opening on the tropical team, if you'd like to forecast TCs. I've been forecasting TCs around the world since 1980, my 42nd year. I used to be like many on the board here, anxious for something big to develop. Now, I would like to have a season with zero storms at all. Would be fine with me. I've dealt with those who have been severely impacted by TCs for decades. Here's hoping that Elsa is the last storm of the season...

By the way, I was joking about Elsa opening up into a wave. Thought I might rattle a few cages. It is an interesting wind field, though.


I know what you mean, what really got me interested in tropical meteorology was Charley's hook right into my area. So many people were caught off guard even though we were in the cone. I wanted to learn why there was an error in intensity and track and do everything possible to prevent that from happening again.

Most of the locals here were surprised that we got higher storm surge from Eta than Irma. The track forecast moving due north so close to the coast is concerning from an areal extent of potential storm surge. Though I doubt Elsa will get stronger than 50 kts on the north side of Cuba, storms moving northeast with the flow of potential shear tends to be less hostile than the magnitude of shear would suggest. And since shear is going to be somewhat more favorable north of Cuba, I hope it gets significant enough land interaction/core disruption to preclude any sudden intensification episodes like what happened on Friday.


Hermine from 2016 is a good example of storms moving northeast with the flow/direction of wind shear. Hermine was strengthening up to landfall. I mentioned this on another post, but I couldn't recall the type of wind shear it was. Watching Elsa closely here at my locale. And good luck with your degree! I'm aiming to get mine soon while in the Air Force. My goal is to join the Hurricane Hunters. That's been a dream for a long time, though cross-training into the weather field wouldn't be bad either as a stepping stone.
Last edited by JaxGator on Sat Jul 03, 2021 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
5 likes   
The posts or stuff said are NOT an official forecast. Please look to the NHC and NWS for official forecasts and products.

Floyd-1999, Frances-2004, Jeanne-2004, Fay-2008, Beryl-2012, Debby-2012, Colin-2016, Hermine-2016, Julia-2016, Matthew-2016, Irma-2017, Elsa-2021, Idalia-2023, Debby-2024, Helene-2024.


Go Gators! Go Jags!

User avatar
GCANE
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 11508
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:03 am

Re: ATL: ELSA - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#2231 Postby GCANE » Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:57 pm

South shore of Cuba starting to fire off.
Storms pushing west off Haiti.
Lots of moisture from convective debris will be in the open water.
Elsa should do well once she clears Haiti.
6 likes   

BYG Jacob

Re: ATL: ELSA - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#2232 Postby BYG Jacob » Sat Jul 03, 2021 5:05 pm

There's going to be a massive burst of convection once the storm clears off Haiti
2 likes   

User avatar
skyline385
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 2728
Age: 35
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:15 pm
Location: Houston TX

Re: ATL: ELSA - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#2233 Postby skyline385 » Sat Jul 03, 2021 5:05 pm

18Z GFS still has it struggling to reform, I am inclined to agree with it on this one. The structure still remains out of shape as ever and the towers firing keep dying out. 18Z HWRF will probably confirm the same, they have had enough recon data to initialize all the models correctly for a while now...
1 likes   

User avatar
GCANE
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 11508
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:03 am

Re: ATL: ELSA - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#2234 Postby GCANE » Sat Jul 03, 2021 5:14 pm

With all due respect, GFS sucks.
No spatial resolution to accurately model mesoscale effects, not to mention land interactions.
4 likes   

AlphaToOmega
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 1448
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:51 am
Location: Somewhere in Massachusetts

Re: ATL: ELSA - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#2235 Postby AlphaToOmega » Sat Jul 03, 2021 5:14 pm

The real question is how the models forgot it was July, not September
2 likes   

BYG Jacob

Re: ATL: ELSA - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#2236 Postby BYG Jacob » Sat Jul 03, 2021 5:17 pm

GCANE wrote:With all due respect, GFS sucks.
No spatial resolution to accurately model mesoscale effects, not to mention land interactions.

Yee olde Goofus
2 likes   

Chemmers
Tropical Storm
Tropical Storm
Posts: 220
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:16 am

Re: ATL: ELSA - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#2237 Postby Chemmers » Sat Jul 03, 2021 5:18 pm

In the last couple satellite photo was that an eye trying to form?
0 likes   

User avatar
skyline385
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 2728
Age: 35
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:15 pm
Location: Houston TX

Re: ATL: ELSA - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#2238 Postby skyline385 » Sat Jul 03, 2021 5:18 pm

GCANE wrote:With all due respect, GFS sucks.
No spatial resolution to accurately model mesoscale effects, not to mention land interactions.


Well thats why I said HWRF will confirm the same since HWRF has the resolution to scale meso vortices. However the system is struggling to even maintain a basic shape on the GFS and unless something unexpected in its favour were to happen, I dont see the HWRF results being much different except for some slight re-intensification over the Cuban coast and then some more again over the keys but passing over the Cuban terrains in its current state would destroy all semblance of structure it has remaining...
Last edited by skyline385 on Sat Jul 03, 2021 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
0 likes   

User avatar
eastcoastFL
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 3900
Age: 43
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:29 pm
Location: Palm City, FL

Re: ATL: ELSA - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#2239 Postby eastcoastFL » Sat Jul 03, 2021 5:19 pm

Image
0 likes   
Personal Forecast Disclaimer:
The posts in this forum are NOT official forecast and should not be used as such. They are just the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. They are NOT endorsed by any professional institution or storm2k.org. For official information, please refer to the NHC and NWS products.

User avatar
eastcoastFL
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 3900
Age: 43
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:29 pm
Location: Palm City, FL

Re: ATL: ELSA - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#2240 Postby eastcoastFL » Sat Jul 03, 2021 5:19 pm

Chemmers wrote:In the last couple satellite photo was that an eye trying to form?


I haven’t noticed an eye forming.
2 likes   
Personal Forecast Disclaimer:
The posts in this forum are NOT official forecast and should not be used as such. They are just the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. They are NOT endorsed by any professional institution or storm2k.org. For official information, please refer to the NHC and NWS products.


Return to “2021”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests