Tropical Depression TEN: Model Runs

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MiamiensisWx

Re: Re:

#381 Postby MiamiensisWx » Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:40 pm

skysummit wrote:Yea, but it's not moving it north into a ridge. On this run, just like the last few, the GFS has a ridge over Texas. That's why it's not sending it west. The EURO is seeing the opposite. One will be right, but which one?

The one good thing about this run is shear looks to really pick up as it's nearing the coast line.

Shear estimates in model prognostications are notoriously inaccurate. I don't have the reasons as to why people trust future shear values. Although the upper-air pattern is different than Humberto, the facts don't change. If the s/w pulls out quicker, it could actually aid better conditions over the system when it moves into the Gulf of Mexico.
Last edited by MiamiensisWx on Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: INVEST 93L : Model Runs

#382 Postby Stormcenter » Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:42 pm

Shear has always been hard to forecast period.
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Re: INVEST 93L : Model Runs

#383 Postby Stormcenter » Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:45 pm

This mess looks confusing right now.

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/flt/t1/loop-vis.html
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Re: INVEST 93L : Model Runs

#384 Postby Wx_Warrior » Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:46 pm

Until one defined LLC, then it will be! :lol:
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Re: INVEST 93L : Model Runs

#385 Postby Stratosphere747 » Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:49 pm

Stormcenter wrote:This mess looks confusing right now.

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/flt/t1/loop-vis.html


The long-range forecast called for confusing until Thursday.

Looks like it is right on track.....
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Re: INVEST 93L : Model Runs

#386 Postby PTPatrick » Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:01 pm

SOrry to keep harping...but is it possible that the GFS turns it quicker(and the NAM...I know not a good tropical models...but this thing isnt truly tropical so chew on that) because it sees the initial low and the surounding dynamics help to cause the weakness that the gfs pulls it into?
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Re: INVEST 93L : Model Runs

#387 Postby ronjon » Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:25 pm

Wow - just how unpredictable is this storm? I don't think I've seen this much divergence in opinion among PRO METs and others in a long time. There simply is not a good analog for this system to develop - if it develops. When viewed over a broad perspective this is what we know - a rather large circulation envelope, a strong ULL, a small circulation at the surface on the east coast, falling surface pressure along the SW FL coast, strong shear from the ULL, increasing convection in the SE GOM, and plenty warm SSTs in the GOM. Oh yeah, and a bunch of models that predict a storm will form in the eastern GOM. Clear as mud, right? :lol:
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#388 Postby skysummit » Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:33 pm

Very good points regarding the upper level wind forecast by the GFS. I was just trying to find a positive note :) Even if upper level winds are marginal, if it passes slowly over the loop current, all bets could be off. Hopefully something is there to provide enough shear to keep it in check.

I'm still not looking for anything stronger than a weak Cat 1 though.
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jhamps10

#389 Postby jhamps10 » Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:34 pm

FSU, just so that we can see what it shows:

http://moe.met.fsu.edu/cgi-bin/mm5fsu45 ... =Animation
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Re:

#390 Postby skysummit » Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:40 pm

jhamps10 wrote:FSU, just so that we can see what it shows:

http://moe.met.fsu.edu/cgi-bin/mm5fsu45 ... =Animation


It's creating the usual monster it's used to :) I don't remember the last time I even looked at the model.
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Re: Re:

#391 Postby DESTRUCTION5 » Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:43 pm

skysummit wrote:
jhamps10 wrote:FSU, just so that we can see what it shows:

http://moe.met.fsu.edu/cgi-bin/mm5fsu45 ... =Animation


It's creating the usual monster it's used to :) I don't remember the last time I even looked at the model.



Also the darn second model that shows Ingrid reincarnation..
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Re: INVEST 93L : Model Runs

#392 Postby cycloneye » Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:44 pm

WHXX01 KWBC 200017
CHGHUR
TROPICAL CYCLONE GUIDANCE MESSAGE
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL
0017 UTC THU SEP 20 2007

DISCLAIMER...NUMERICAL MODELS ARE SUBJECT TO LARGE ERRORS.
PLEASE REFER TO NHC OFFICIAL FORECASTS FOR TROPICAL CYCLONE
AND SUBTROPICAL CYCLONE INFORMATION.

ATLANTIC OBJECTIVE AIDS FOR

DISTURBANCE INVEST (AL932007) 20070920 0000 UTC

...00 HRS... ...12 HRS... ...24 HRS. .. ...36 HRS...
070920 0000 070920 1200 070921 0000 070921 1200

LAT LON LAT LON LAT LON LAT LON
BAMS 28.5N 80.9W 29.0N 82.8W 29.6N 84.6W 30.3N 86.6W
BAMD 28.5N 80.9W 29.3N 82.9W 29.9N 84.9W 30.3N 86.8W
BAMM 28.5N 80.9W 29.1N 82.8W 29.5N 84.7W 30.0N 86.6W
LBAR 28.5N 80.9W 29.0N 82.1W 29.8N 83.5W 30.8N 84.8W
SHIP 25KTS 30KTS 37KTS 45KTS
DSHP 25KTS 26KTS 36KTS 44KTS

...48 HRS... ...72 HRS... ...96 HRS. .. ..120 HRS...
070922 0000 070923 0000 070924 0000 070925 0000

LAT LON LAT LON LAT LON LAT LON
BAMS 30.8N 88.3W 31.8N 92.3W 35.3N 95.9W 40.5N 93.1W
BAMD 30.6N 88.6W 31.4N 93.1W 34.5N 98.4W 40.9N 97.0W
BAMM 30.4N 88.3W 31.3N 92.5W 34.8N 96.6W 40.8N 93.3W
LBAR 32.1N 86.2W 33.4N 88.9W 34.9N 91.7W 39.3N 90.7W
SHIP 50KTS 56KTS 57KTS 57KTS
DSHP 43KTS 29KTS 27KTS 29KTS

...INITIAL CONDITIONS...
LATCUR = 28.5N LONCUR = 80.9W DIRCUR = 270DEG SPDCUR = 3KT
LATM12 = 28.4N LONM12 = 79.8W DIRM12 = 270DEG SPDM12 = 1KT
LATM24 = 26.0N LONM24 = 79.3W
WNDCUR = 25KT RMAXWD = 75NM WNDM12 = 25KT
CENPRS = 1007MB OUTPRS = 1010MB OUTRAD = 180NM SDEPTH = M
RD34NE = 0NM RD34SE = 0NM RD34SW = 0NM RD34NW = 0NM



The Tropical suite tonight keeps iniciating the low more north.However,the pressure is now down to 1007 mbs.
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jhamps10

Re: INVEST 93L : Model Runs

#393 Postby jhamps10 » Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:47 pm

cycloneye wrote:WHXX01 KWBC 200017
CHGHUR
TROPICAL CYCLONE GUIDANCE MESSAGE
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL
0017 UTC THU SEP 20 2007

DISCLAIMER...NUMERICAL MODELS ARE SUBJECT TO LARGE ERRORS.
PLEASE REFER TO NHC OFFICIAL FORECASTS FOR TROPICAL CYCLONE
AND SUBTROPICAL CYCLONE INFORMATION.

ATLANTIC OBJECTIVE AIDS FOR

DISTURBANCE INVEST (AL932007) 20070920 0000 UTC

...00 HRS... ...12 HRS... ...24 HRS. .. ...36 HRS...
070920 0000 070920 1200 070921 0000 070921 1200

LAT LON LAT LON LAT LON LAT LON
BAMS 28.5N 80.9W 29.0N 82.8W 29.6N 84.6W 30.3N 86.6W
BAMD 28.5N 80.9W 29.3N 82.9W 29.9N 84.9W 30.3N 86.8W
BAMM 28.5N 80.9W 29.1N 82.8W 29.5N 84.7W 30.0N 86.6W
LBAR 28.5N 80.9W 29.0N 82.1W 29.8N 83.5W 30.8N 84.8W
SHIP 25KTS 30KTS 37KTS 45KTS
DSHP 25KTS 26KTS 36KTS 44KTS

...48 HRS... ...72 HRS... ...96 HRS. .. ..120 HRS...
070922 0000 070923 0000 070924 0000 070925 0000

LAT LON LAT LON LAT LON LAT LON
BAMS 30.8N 88.3W 31.8N 92.3W 35.3N 95.9W 40.5N 93.1W
BAMD 30.6N 88.6W 31.4N 93.1W 34.5N 98.4W 40.9N 97.0W
BAMM 30.4N 88.3W 31.3N 92.5W 34.8N 96.6W 40.8N 93.3W
LBAR 32.1N 86.2W 33.4N 88.9W 34.9N 91.7W 39.3N 90.7W
SHIP 50KTS 56KTS 57KTS 57KTS
DSHP 43KTS 29KTS 27KTS 29KTS

...INITIAL CONDITIONS...
LATCUR = 28.5N LONCUR = 80.9W DIRCUR = 270DEG SPDCUR = 3KT
LATM12 = 28.4N LONM12 = 79.8W DIRM12 = 270DEG SPDM12 = 1KT
LATM24 = 26.0N LONM24 = 79.3W
WNDCUR = 25KT RMAXWD = 75NM WNDM12 = 25KT
CENPRS = 1007MB OUTPRS = 1010MB OUTRAD = 180NM SDEPTH = M
RD34NE = 0NM RD34SE = 0NM RD34SW = 0NM RD34NW = 0NM



The Tropical suite tonight keeps iniciating the low more north.However,the pressure is now down to 1007 mbs.


That makes little sense, because I looked and it appears to be going south of due west, so it couldn't be going north or north-northwest.
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Derek Ortt

#394 Postby Derek Ortt » Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:48 pm

next runs please. Those are utterly worthless, including SHIPS as it is run off of BAMM
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Re: INVEST 93L : Model Runs

#395 Postby canetracker » Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:54 pm

Just my opinion and am open to debate, but I think these runs are worthless too as it does not appear the area of circulation to the North is the primary one. I do feel the area of circulation to the SW of FL is the one to watch.
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Re: INVEST 93L : Model Runs

#396 Postby Ptarmigan » Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:14 pm

canetracker wrote:Just my opinion and am open to debate, but I think these runs are worthless too as it does not appear the area of circulation to the North is the primary one. I do feel the area of circulation to the SW of FL is the one to watch.


I consider computer models meaningless. I will start worrying, when a surface low forms and becomes a TD. I know there is a good chance it will become a tropical system.
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Matt-hurricanewatcher

Re: INVEST 93L : Model Runs

#397 Postby Matt-hurricanewatcher » Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:21 pm

The LLC to the best of my knowledge is just east of the ULL center. You can see the buoy and ob data and convection forming near it or just west of the LLC more over the ULL. Its just north of Naples.
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Matt-hurricanewatcher

Re: INVEST 93L : Model Runs

#398 Postby Matt-hurricanewatcher » Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:26 pm

Press on wave graphics to see the LLC is just inland close to Naples.

http://www.oceanweather.com/data/
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Re: INVEST 93L : Model Runs

#399 Postby miamicanes177 » Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:31 pm

jhamps10 wrote:
cycloneye wrote:The Tropical suite tonight keeps iniciating the low more north.However,the pressure is now down to 1007 mbs.


That makes little sense, because I looked and it appears to be going south of due west, so it couldn't be going north or north-northwest.

Why does NHC continue to initiate the models on the low further north instead of the one off the sw coast that people keep talking about?
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#400 Postby wiggles » Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:36 pm

IF the NHC has done a great job in the past this season, why do you think they are wrong now?
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