gigabite wrote:x-y-no wrote:...I can't even begin to guess...
Yea well, I was only trying help you understand that your convictions are based on cave paintings.
LOL! Whatever floats your boat, gigabite.
I'm not a climate scientist by profession, but I've been reading the published research in that field and in physical oceanography for three decades and I've had many conversations with professionals in those fields, so I have a pretty good idea what my understanding is based on. It ain't cave paintings.
I'll ask again - have you read the IPCC TAR? It lays out a pretty comprehensive survey of the state of the science as of 2001, and much of that simply bears no relation to some assertions you made above. What do you say we discuss these discrepancies in a factual way, rather than tossing out derisive characterizations?
The watts per square meter have increased 0.02 percent a year as a result of irradiance, where as a result of greenhouse gas they have only gone up 0.003 percent. That makes Greenhouse Gasses 15 percent of the problem. In the “Halocarbons and other Atmospheric Trace Species group of gasses” carbon dioxide is the only component that is not dropping. Carbon dioxide is 63 percent of that group. That makes carbon dioxide build up 9 percent of the problem, and of the fraction some comes into the atmosphere from the solar wind some is organic and some is derived from human activity. The portion that is from human activity, let’s make it easy and say 4 percent of the total problem, if half of that, 2 percent, let’s say is derived from industrial activity and cars. Cutting that in half through a 70’s type conservation effort would still leave 99 percent of the problem 86 percent of it being irradiance.
Where are you getting these numbers from? What time period does it cover? If we're going to have a serious discussion, let's see the provenence.
I'll refer to chapter 12 of the TAR, but we can get down to the details in chapter 6 or to individual research results if you wish ...
Solar forcing vs anthropgenic forcing:
IPCC TAR wrote:Solar forcing
The variation of solar irradiance with the 11-year sunspot cycle has been assessed with some accuracy over more than 20 years, although measurements of the magnitude of modulations of solar irradiance between solar cycles are less certain (see Chapter 6). The estimation of earlier solar irradiance fluctuations, although based on physical mechanisms, is indirect. Hence our confidence in the range of solar radiation on century time-scales is low, and confidence in the details of the time-history is even lower (Harrison and Shine, 1999; Chapter 6). Several recent reconstructions estimate that variations in solar irradiance give rise to a forcing at the Earth’s surface of about 0.6 to 0.7 Wm-2 since the Maunder Minimum and about half this over the 20th century (see Chapter 6, Figure 6.5; Hoyt and Schatten, 1993; Lean et al., 1995; Lean, 1997; Froehlich and Lean, 1998; Lockwood and Stamper, 1999). This is larger than the 0.2 Wm-2 modulation of the 11-year solar cycle measured from satellites. (Note that we discuss here the forcing at the Earth’s surface, which is smaller than that at the top of the atmosphere, due to the Earth’s geometry and albedo.) The reconstructions of Lean et al. (1995) and Hoyt and Schatten (1993), which have been used in GCM detection studies, vary in amplitude and phase. Chapter 6, Figure 6.8 shows time-series of reconstructed solar and volcanic forcing since the late 18th century. All reconstructions indicate that the direct effect of variations in solar forcing over the 20th century was about 20 to 25% of the change in forcing due to increases in the well-mixed greenhouse gases (see Chapter 6).
There has not been a large trend in insolation in the last half century. You need to explain how it is that your claims differ so dramatically from the scientific consensus on this issue.
Perhaps you were referring to a longer-term trends, in which case there are some real difficulties in terms of what proxy records are meaningful, and there been some unfortunate cases of people on both sides of the argument drawing more meaning than is reasonable from individual records.
I'd refer you to this correspondence:
http://www.cgd.ucar.edu/ccr/raimund/publications/Muscheler_et_al_Nature2005.pdfwhich can usefully link you back to much of the current dialogue.
The gist, as I understand the current state of knowledge, is that today’s solar activity is high but not exceptional during the last 1000 years.
My point here is not to say that hardball conservation would not be a good thing for the $avings rate. It is just to say that hardball conservation will not keep this problem from steam rolling over a lot of the good people, and the dialogue needs to turn towards boiler plating shelters, and emergency preparedness. This is not something that is not going to go away in the near future. Please adjust to it.
"Boiler plating shelters"?
You lost me again. What's that about?