Retirement Names - Dorian, Fernand, Nestor

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Chacor
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Re: Re:

#81 Postby Chacor » Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:44 pm

Ptarmigan wrote:
Derek Ortt wrote:some additional info, France was the country that requested Dean's retirement.

I missed the start of Dr. Avila's talk as I got back from lunch about 90 seconds too late, so he may have mentioned something about Felix and Noel


I am surprised Felix hasn't been retired. It killed way more people than Dean. France also retired Klaus even though it killed 12 people.


NO ONE SAID FELIX WASN'T RETIRED. AVILA JUST MENTIONED DEAN IN PASSING.

See, Derek, THIS is why I said you shouldn't have mentioned it and just waited for a news release, so people would not assume things.
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Re: Retirement's Eve

#82 Postby Matt-hurricanewatcher » Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:25 pm

Chacor please don't tell people not to discuse hurricanes and what has to do with them on a tropical cyclone board. It makes no sense. :wink: In which retirement of them is part of it.. This is a board to do just that. It really makes no sense to stop that discussion. Thank you.
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Re: Retirement's Eve

#83 Postby Chacor » Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:32 pm

Matt-hurricanewatcher wrote:Chacor please don't tell people not to discuse hurricanes and what has to do with them on a tropical cyclone board. It makes no sense. :wink: In which retirement of them is part of it.. This is a board to do just that. It really makes no sense to stop that discussion. Thank you.


Did you even read my post? I said Derek should not have mentioned just Dean without mentioning others as it would just lead others - like Ptarmigan has - to misunderstand things. I did not tell him not to discuss hurricanes.
Last edited by Chacor on Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Retirement's Eve

#84 Postby Category 5 » Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:33 pm

Matt-hurricanewatcher wrote:Chacor please don't tell people not to discuse hurricanes and what has to do with them on a tropical cyclone board. It makes no sense. :wink: In which retirement of them is part of it.. This is a board to do just that. It really makes no sense to stop that discussion. Thank you.


Read Chacors post again please.
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#85 Postby HurricaneBill » Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:16 am

I'm pretty sure Felix will be retired. Nicaragua has requested names be retired before.

Hurricane Joan (1988)
Hurricane Cesar (1996)
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Re: Retirement's Eve

#86 Postby AnnularCane » Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:49 am

The NHC site just posted the 2013 names, and they're all the same. Even Dean! I'm confused, didn't they retire anything?
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#87 Postby Buck » Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:58 am

Let's just wait for a press release, guys.
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Re: Retirement's Eve

#88 Postby masaji79 » Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:33 pm

Who knows what they'll do. Heck they may even retire Olga. You never know. :roll:
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Re: Re:

#89 Postby Ptarmigan » Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:15 pm

Chacor wrote:
NO ONE SAID FELIX WASN'T RETIRED. AVILA JUST MENTIONED DEAN IN PASSING.

See, Derek, THIS is why I said you shouldn't have mentioned it and just waited for a news release, so people would not assume things.


Dude, you're using all caps. Chill out.
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Re: Retirement's Eve

#90 Postby brunota2003 » Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:17 pm

AnnularCane wrote:The NHC site just posted the 2013 names, and they're all the same. Even Dean! I'm confused, didn't they retire anything?

The NHC will continue use of the names until otherwise told. The WMO has nothing to do with the NHC...I'm sure once they are informed of the changes, they'll go through and correct the list.
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#91 Postby AndrewSmith2500 » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:46 pm

If Felix ends up being retired, what do you think of the names Ferdinand, Fletcher, Franz and Fritz as replacement names
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Re: Retirement's Eve

#92 Postby Cryomaniac » Thu May 01, 2008 11:49 am

masaji79 wrote:Who knows what they'll do. Heck they may even retire Olga. You never know. :roll:


Stranger things have happened at sea...
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Re:

#93 Postby Cyclone1 » Thu May 01, 2008 5:41 pm

AndrewSmith2500 wrote:If Felix ends up being retired, what do you think of the names Ferdinand, Fletcher, Franz and Fritz as replacement names


Maybe not Franz, given that Fran and Frances have already been retired.
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Re: Retirement's Eve

#94 Postby HurricaneBill » Fri May 02, 2008 2:59 am

According to a baby names book I have, Felix is a Latin name.

Other Latin "F" names:

Fabian (already was used and retired)
Faunus
Faust (not likely because of "Fausto" in the EPAC)
Favian (too close to Fabian)
Festus
Fidel (I'm sure Cuba would object)
Fitzpatrick
Flavian
Florian
Fortney
Francis (Too close to Frances)
Fulgentius
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#95 Postby HURAKAN » Fri May 02, 2008 5:55 am

Fernando [ EPAC has Fernanda (female) ]

Francisco [ In use in the WPAC ]

Fermín

Felipe
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#96 Postby Cyclone1 » Fri May 02, 2008 2:02 pm

Felipe is too close Philippe.
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Re: Retirement's Eve

#97 Postby Cleveland Kent Evans » Fri May 02, 2008 4:48 pm

Hello to all the posters on this board.

I just found this board through Google while trying to find information on what the names replaced from 2007 were, if any.
I don't have a particular interest in meteorology, but I am the immediate past president of the American Name Society and my area of expertise is given names and their use. So I am very interested in the process of naming hurricanes. It's been interesting to see you meteorology buffs discussing the issue.

I have been a bit mystified in the past as to how the WMO people come up with replacement names. I was particularly amazed when they replaced Katrina and Rita with Katia and Rina. Why would they choose two names so similar to the ones they just replaced, it one of the points of replacement is to remove names which have connotations of overwhelming particular disasters? Both Katia and Rina are shortened forms of Katrina! It looks to me like there wasn't much thought put into the replacement names at all, but that someone just came up with the first other name that sprang to mind by quick association with the original name. That seems unfortunate, especially since there were plenty of other names starting with K or R to choose instead.

I also think that modern cross-cultural influence on given names is quickly making very problematical the rule that names should be "English, French, or Spanish". There are names on the lists already that did not originate in either England, France, or Spain. Gustav on the 2008 list, for instance: This is certainly not a traditional English name, and the French and Spanish forms would be Gustave and Gustavo. And parents in all these cultures today are quick to adopt names from other cultures, or newly created names that have no history in a particular language. Within the past decade, for example, the most popular baby names in France have included Kevin, Matteo, Enzo, Oceane, Laura, and Maeva, none of which were originally French language names. Maeva is Tahitian, and Oceane is a new invention. Among the most popular names in Spanish speaking Latin America recently have been Axel, Giovanni, Omar, Yahir, Anahi, Astrid, Daisy, Lizbeth, and Vanessa. And of course the USA and Canada have all sorts of common names that aren't really "English".

As a name expert I can certainly agree that it would be possible to come up with 26 new names every year, especially if the meteorologists would consult with the onomasticians like myself on finding them. And there are certainly name experts in other countries besides the USA who could help. :)

If the replacement for Dean is Dorian, that's a better choice than Katia or Rina were, though it's still a bit too close to Dean for my liking. I would have suggested Darryl or Diego myself -- or, if a "French" name was needed, Dylan would actually have worked as well as Dorian as it's been quite popular with French parents lately, even though it originated in Wales. (Derek would indeed be a great name for the lists in the abstract, but unfortunately I don't think it would be wise to use it on the Atlantic 2013 list because the Eastern Pacific 2013 list includes the way-too-similar-sounding Erick.)

Thanks a lot for letting me contribute to your discussion.

Cleve Evans
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Re: Retirement's Eve

#98 Postby cycloneye » Fri May 02, 2008 4:59 pm

Cleveland Kent Evans wrote:Hello to all the posters on this board.

I just found this board through Google while trying to find information on what the names replaced from 2007 were, if any.
I don't have a particular interest in meteorology, but I am the immediate past president of the American Name Society and my area of expertise is given names and their use. So I am very interested in the process of naming hurricanes. It's been interesting to see you meteorology buffs discussing the issue.

I have been a bit mystified in the past as to how the WMO people come up with replacement names. I was particularly amazed when they replaced Katrina and Rita with Katia and Rina. Why would they choose two names so similar to the ones they just replaced, it one of the points of replacement is to remove names which have connotations of overwhelming particular disasters? Both Katia and Rina are shortened forms of Katrina! It looks to me like there wasn't much thought put into the replacement names at all, but that someone just came up with the first other name that sprang to mind by quick association with the original name. That seems unfortunate, especially since there were plenty of other names starting with K or R to choose instead.

I also think that modern cross-cultural influence on given names is quickly making very problematical the rule that names should be "English, French, or Spanish". There are names on the lists already that did not originate in either England, France, or Spain. Gustav on the 2008 list, for instance: This is certainly not a traditional English name, and the French and Spanish forms would be Gustave and Gustavo. And parents in all these cultures today are quick to adopt names from other cultures, or newly created names that have no history in a particular language. Within the past decade, for example, the most popular baby names in France have included Kevin, Matteo, Enzo, Oceane, Laura, and Maeva, none of which were originally French language names. Maeva is Tahitian, and Oceane is a new invention. Among the most popular names in Spanish speaking Latin America recently have been Axel, Giovanni, Omar, Yahir, Anahi, Astrid, Daisy, Lizbeth, and Vanessa. And of course the USA and Canada have all sorts of common names that aren't really "English".

As a name expert I can certainly agree that it would be possible to come up with 26 new names every year, especially if the meteorologists would consult with the onomasticians like myself on finding them. And there are certainly name experts in other countries besides the USA who could help. :)

If the replacement for Dean is Dorian, that's a better choice than Katia or Rina were, though it's still a bit too close to Dean for my liking. I would have suggested Darryl or Diego myself -- or, if a "French" name was needed, Dylan would actually have worked as well as Dorian as it's been quite popular with French parents lately, even though it originated in Wales. (Derek would indeed be a great name for the lists in the abstract, but unfortunately I don't think it would be wise to use it on the Atlantic 2013 list because the Eastern Pacific 2013 list includes the way-too-similar-sounding Erick.)

Thanks a lot for letting me contribute to your discussion.

Cleve Evans


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#99 Postby RL3AO » Sun May 04, 2008 1:21 pm

Its May 4th. Surprised there is nothing official yet.
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Re: Retirement's Eve

#100 Postby HurricaneRobert » Sun May 04, 2008 1:31 pm

Cleveland Kent Evans wrote:I have been a bit mystified in the past as to how the WMO people come up with replacement names. I was particularly amazed when they replaced Katrina and Rita with Katia and Rina. Why would they choose two names so similar to the ones they just replaced, it one of the points of replacement is to remove names which have connotations of overwhelming particular disasters? Both Katia and Rina are shortened forms of Katrina! It looks to me like there wasn't much thought put into the replacement names at all, but that someone just came up with the first other name that sprang to mind by quick association with the original name. That seems unfortunate, especially since there were plenty of other names starting with K or R to choose instead.


I did not notice the Katia and Rina connection, though each sounds too much like the names they replaced. This year's list for the Eastern Pacific will also have Karina on it for the first time. It was chosen two years before Katrina, but someone should've noticed the similarity.
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