2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#861 Postby wxman57 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:50 pm

Kingarabian wrote:
wxman57 wrote:Current GFS run suggests that the East Pacific is highly unfavorable for tropical development. Plenty of sinking, dry air (convergence aloft). If it doesn't know what's happening now, how can we trust the forecast?

https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysi ... obal_1.png


Hey wxman57, I think that run on Tropicaltidbits.com is 3 days old. Using another models website, the 12z GFS for July 25th shows plenty of rising air across the EPac. Interestingly it keeps sinking air across the Atlantic for much of the next 16 days. 12z Operational Euro has the same in its 10 day forecast.


Oops, had the wrong link. That makes it even worse, then. GFS had the unfavorable conditions in the East Pac for the formation of Greg, Irwin, and Hilary. Still has sinking air there through Wednesday. GFS doesn't have a clue.
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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#862 Postby beoumont » Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:43 pm

I've come to consider that the "real" hurricane season runs from August 15th through October 20th. The number of major hurricane landfalls outside of those dates is very very small; somewhere in the 10% range or less. Expecting anything earlier or later almost always turns out to be fantasy.

Audrey 1957, Charley 2004, and the Mobile, Alabama hurricane of 1916 are the only three that immediately come to mind, and Emily in Yucatan in 2005 if one wants to count that one which occurred in what is very likely to be the busiest season in any of our lifetimes.

Someone familiar with the hurricane data sets might check and see what the actual percentage of major hurricane landfalls is outside of the above dates; I am one who would like to know the actual number and percentage.
Last edited by beoumont on Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#863 Postby TheStormExpert » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:02 pm

18z GFS spins the Tropical Atlantic storm up again this time further east and sooner starting @ 108hrs.
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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#864 Postby AutoPenalti » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:15 pm

TheStormExpert wrote:18z GFS spins the Tropical Atlantic storm up again this time further east and sooner starting @ 108hrs.

Well that is interesting, 5 days from now the CCKW is traversing towards the MDR.
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Model Runs Cheat Sheet:
GFS (5:30 AM/PM, 11:30 AM/PM)
HWRF, GFDL, UKMET, NAVGEM (6:30-8:00 AM/PM, 12:30-2:00 AM/PM)
ECMWF (1:45 AM/PM)

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is a weighted averaged

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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#865 Postby AtlanticWind » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:26 pm

TheStormExpert wrote:18z GFS spins the Tropical Atlantic storm up again this time further east and sooner starting @ 108hrs.

Game on maybe :D
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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#866 Postby gatorcane » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:02 pm

Wonder if we will get a mention by NHC at 8pm est with the global models now showing some kind of development? They might wait for the overnight runs to be more confident though.
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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#867 Postby AubreyStorm » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:11 pm

Hmmmmm! Topic for this?
Yellow paint coming soon?

Los modelos siguen viendo desarrollo en esta zona de la ITCZ donde están estas ondas, es posible pintura amarilla.
...TROPICAL WAVES...

A tropical wave is in the E Atlc with axis extending from 15N20W
to 06N20W, moving W at 5 kt within the last 24 hours. The wave is
in a region of favorable to neutral vertical wind shear, and is
being affected by Saharan dry air and dust intrusion. Shallow moisture
confined to the vicinity of the African monsoon along with upper
level diffluence support scattered showers from 05N to 10N between
20W and 30W and isolated showers elsewhere E of 20W.

A tropical wave is in the central Atlc with axis extending from
14N30W to 03N30W, moving W at 5 kt within the last 24 hours. The
wave is in a region of favorable vertical wind shear, however it
continues to be severely affected by Saharan dry air dust, which
is limiting convection to isolated showers in the vicinity of the
monsoon trough from 04N to 09N between 30W and 39W.
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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#868 Postby gatorcane » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:18 pm

Wow GFS ensembles do a 180 again from previous run. Development starts in 3 to 4 days, 150 hours below:

Image
Last edited by gatorcane on Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#869 Postby AutoPenalti » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:18 pm

AubreyStorm wrote:Hmmmmm! Topic for this?
Yellow paint coming soon?

Los modelos siguen viendo desarrollo en esta zona de la ITCZ donde están estas ondas, es posible pintura amarilla.
...TROPICAL WAVES...

A tropical wave is in the E Atlc with axis extending from 15N20W
to 06N20W, moving W at 5 kt within the last 24 hours. The wave is
in a region of favorable to neutral vertical wind shear, and is
being affected by Saharan dry air and dust intrusion. Shallow moisture
confined to the vicinity of the African monsoon along with upper
level diffluence support scattered showers from 05N to 10N between
20W and 30W and isolated showers elsewhere E of 20W.

A tropical wave is in the central Atlc with axis extending from
14N30W to 03N30W, moving W at 5 kt within the last 24 hours. The
wave is in a region of favorable vertical wind shear, however it
continues to be severely affected by Saharan dry air dust, which
is limiting convection to isolated showers in the vicinity of the
monsoon trough from 04N to 09N between 30W and 39W.

"Yellow paint is possible" sounds like lemon tag by tomorrow?
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The posts in this forum are NOT official forecasts and should not be used as such. They are just the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. They are NOT endorsed by any professional institution or STORM2K. For official information, please refer to products from the NHC and NWS.


Model Runs Cheat Sheet:
GFS (5:30 AM/PM, 11:30 AM/PM)
HWRF, GFDL, UKMET, NAVGEM (6:30-8:00 AM/PM, 12:30-2:00 AM/PM)
ECMWF (1:45 AM/PM)

TCVN
is a weighted averaged

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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#870 Postby RL3AO » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:21 pm

beoumont wrote:I've come to consider that the "real" hurricane season runs from August 15th through October 20th. The number of major hurricane landfalls outside of those dates is very very small; somewhere in the 10% range or less. Expecting anything earlier or later almost always turns out to be fantasy.

Audrey 1957, Charley 2004, and the Mobile, Alabama hurricane of 1916 are the only three that immediately come to mind, and Emily in Yucatan in 2005 if one wants to count that one which occurred in what is very likely to be the busiest season in any of our lifetimes.

Someone familiar with the hurricane data sets might check and see what the actual percentage of major hurricane landfalls is outside of the above dates; I am one who would like to know the actual number and percentage.


I pulled in the data from 1950 to 2016.

There are 1509 6-hr time periods with a major hurricane.
109 (7.2%) occurred before August 15th
1318 (87.3%) occurred between August 15th and October 20th
81 (5.4%) occurred after October 20th

As for storms making landfall as a major hurricane since 1950:
I show 48 major hurricanes have made landfall in the Atlantic basin (after removing multiple landfalls from the same storm)

4 of them occurred before August 15th
7 of them occurred after October 20th
That means 37 of 48 (77%) of major hurricane landfalls occur between August 15th and October 20th.

If you're curious, here's the list of the dates of major hurricane landfall (only the 1st one for each storm) since 1950

Code: Select all

1957-06-27
2005-07-08
2005-07-18
2004-08-13
1951-08-18
1969-08-18
1983-08-18
2007-08-21
1992-08-23
1999-08-23
2011-08-24
2005-08-29
2008-08-30
1954-08-31
1985-09-02
2004-09-02
1960-09-04
2007-09-04
1950-09-05
1995-09-05
1996-09-06
2008-09-07
1988-09-12
1999-09-14
1955-09-16
2004-09-16
1989-09-17
2010-09-17
1998-09-21
2002-09-22
2005-09-24
2004-09-25
1955-09-27
1959-09-29
2015-10-01
1995-10-04
2016-10-04
2001-10-09
1995-10-11
1954-10-12
1950-10-18
2005-10-21
1988-10-22
1952-10-24
2012-10-25
2001-11-04
1999-11-17
2016-11-24
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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#871 Postby Kingarabian » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:22 pm

3 EPS members of the 51 on board.
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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#872 Postby Hammy » Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:16 pm

gatorcane wrote:Wonder if we will get a mention by NHC at 8pm est with the global models now showing some kind of development? They might wait for the overnight runs to be more confident though.


Comparing the model runs to the outlooks they seem to wait until the Euro is on board before mentioning if there's not an already defined area present.
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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#873 Postby floridasun78 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:45 pm

i been watching topic here cannot login from job tablet today i think nhc will wait for more models support i see gfs been on having tropical storm by next week but we see more models go aboard like Euro look like nhc like Euro we seen when Euro start forming low nhc but circle with other models showing it too
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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#874 Postby floridasun78 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:52 pm

other thing their not much strong wave in topical yet to think gfs could picking up some thing up only thing i seen past few days by Africa long line storm but look it bet too low Latitude for it be what gfs picking up Image
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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#875 Postby beoumont » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:14 pm

RL3AO wrote:
beoumont wrote:I've come to consider that the "real" hurricane season runs from August 15th through October 20th. The number of major hurricane landfalls outside of those dates is very very small; somewhere in the 10% range or less. Expecting anything earlier or later almost always turns out to be fantasy.

Audrey 1957, Charley 2004, and the Mobile, Alabama hurricane of 1916 are the only three that immediately come to mind, and Emily in Yucatan in 2005 if one wants to count that one which occurred in what is very likely to be the busiest season in any of our lifetimes.

Someone familiar with the hurricane data sets might check and see what the actual percentage of major hurricane landfalls is outside of the above dates; I am one who would like to know the actual number and percentage.


I pulled in the data from 1950 to 2016.

There are 1509 6-hr time periods with a major hurricane.
109 (7.2%) occurred before August 15th
1318 (87.3%) occurred between August 15th and October 20th
81 (5.4%) occurred after October 20th

As for storms making landfall as a major hurricane since 1950:
I show 48 major hurricanes have made landfall in the Atlantic basin (after removing multiple landfalls from the same storm)

4 of them occurred before August 15th
7 of them occurred after October 20th
That means 37 of 48 (77%) of major hurricane landfalls occur between August 15th and October 20th.


Thanks for running the study for, at least, the years since 1950. The % of all major hurricanes occurring outside the Aug. 15-Oct 20 is about what I suspected. The % of landfalling hurricanes after the Oct. 20 date was quite a bit higher than my gut feelings indicated. Before Aug. 15 about what I suspected.

Upon studying each of those major hurricanes on the list that made landfall after the Oct. 20th date, I realized that my frame of reference is likely "chase-able" major hurricanes; so that skewed my expectations.

The only major tropical cyclone that hit the USA was Wilma; which had sustained 125 mph on the advisory just before landfall in SW Florida. No major hurricane sustained winds were recorded in Florida, though. Of course, Wilma was a major when it made landfall at Cozumel and Cancun, Mexico.

Sandy in 2005 transitioned to sub tropical or non tropical just before landfall in New Jersey.

Joan in 88 made landfall in Nicaragua.

Fox 1952 made landfall in Cuber.

Michelle 2001 made landfall in Cuber; before it became sub-tropical and less than major in the Bahamas. (Brad Riley, Jim Leonard, Mike Theiss, and myself did observe gusts of 105-110 mph in Nassau). 85-90 mph sustained winds in sunlit skies on the convection-less backside after the eye passed over.

Lenny, 1999, made landfall moving ENE at the Virgin Islands. (Brad Riley did chase that to Puerto Rico).

Otto 2016 made landfall in Nicaragua.

(Below is shot, facing ENE from Nassau, inside Michelle's eye: curved east eyewall beyond the suspended sea-spray induced rainbow):

Image
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List of 79 tropical cyclones intercepted by Richard Horodner:
http://www.canebeard.com/page/page/572246.htm

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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#876 Postby RL3AO » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:24 pm

beoumont wrote:
Thanks for running the study for, at least, the years since 1950.


Here's the entire list in the HURDAT database (since 1851)

Code: Select all

1957-06-27
1916-07-05
2005-07-08
2005-07-18
1909-07-21
1918-08-06
1856-08-10
1860-08-11
1880-08-13
2004-08-13
1932-08-14
1888-08-16
1871-08-17
1915-08-17
1879-08-18
1899-08-18
1916-08-18
1951-08-18
1969-08-18
1983-08-18
1886-08-20
2007-08-21
1851-08-23
1992-08-23
1999-08-23
2011-08-24
1926-08-25
1852-08-26
1949-08-26
1945-08-27
1893-08-28
2005-08-29
1942-08-30
2008-08-30
1954-08-31
1879-09-01
1985-09-02
2004-09-02
1935-09-03
1933-09-04
1960-09-04
2007-09-04
1933-09-05
1950-09-05
1995-09-05
1996-09-06
2008-09-07
1854-09-08
1869-09-08
1900-09-09
1882-09-10
1919-09-10
1988-09-12
1999-09-14
1945-09-15
1855-09-16
1875-09-16
1947-09-16
1955-09-16
2004-09-16
1928-09-17
1989-09-17
2010-09-17
1926-09-18
1948-09-20
1909-09-21
1938-09-21
1998-09-21
2002-09-22
1941-09-23
2005-09-24
2004-09-25
1955-09-27
1929-09-28
1896-09-29
1915-09-29
1917-09-29
1959-09-29
2015-10-01
1893-10-02
1898-10-02
1877-10-03
1995-10-04
2016-10-04
1948-10-05
1873-10-07
1894-10-09
2001-10-09
1909-10-11
1995-10-11
1886-10-12
1954-10-12
1893-10-13
1906-10-18
1944-10-18
1950-10-18
2005-10-21
1988-10-22
1952-10-24
1921-10-25
2012-10-25
2001-11-04
1999-11-17
2016-11-24
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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#877 Postby beoumont » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:49 pm

RL3AO wrote:
beoumont wrote:
Thanks for running the study for, at least, the years since 1950.


Here's the entire list in the HURDAT database (since 1851)

Code: Select all

1957-06-27
1916-07-05
2005-07-08
2005-07-18
1909-07-21
1918-08-06
1856-08-10
1860-08-11
1880-08-13
2004-08-13
1932-08-14
1888-08-16
1871-08-17
1915-08-17
1879-08-18
1899-08-18
1916-08-18
1951-08-18
1969-08-18
1983-08-18
1886-08-20
2007-08-21
1851-08-23
1992-08-23
1999-08-23
2011-08-24
1926-08-25
1852-08-26
1949-08-26
1945-08-27
1893-08-28
2005-08-29
1942-08-30
2008-08-30
1954-08-31
1879-09-01
1985-09-02
2004-09-02
1935-09-03
1933-09-04
1960-09-04
2007-09-04
1933-09-05
1950-09-05
1995-09-05
1996-09-06
2008-09-07
1854-09-08
1869-09-08
1900-09-09
1882-09-10
1919-09-10
1988-09-12
1999-09-14
1945-09-15
1855-09-16
1875-09-16
1947-09-16
1955-09-16
2004-09-16
1928-09-17
1989-09-17
2010-09-17
1926-09-18
1948-09-20
1909-09-21
1938-09-21
1998-09-21
2002-09-22
1941-09-23
2005-09-24
2004-09-25
1955-09-27
1929-09-28
1896-09-29
1915-09-29
1917-09-29
1959-09-29
2015-10-01
1893-10-02
1898-10-02
1877-10-03
1995-10-04
2016-10-04
1948-10-05
1873-10-07
1894-10-09
2001-10-09
1909-10-11
1995-10-11
1886-10-12
1954-10-12
1893-10-13
1906-10-18
1944-10-18
1950-10-18
2005-10-21
1988-10-22
1952-10-24
1921-10-25
2012-10-25
2001-11-04
1999-11-17
2016-11-24


Thanks for running this, as well.

The % of landfalling major hurricanes before August 15th increases from the 1950+ study; with those ancient landfalls of 1856, 1860, 1880, 1909, 1916 (Mobile, Al), 1918, and 1932.

The overall % after Oct. 20 decreases from the 1950+ study, as the only addition is the 1921 storm that came ashore near (just north of?) Tampa, Florida.
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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#878 Postby Kingarabian » Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:36 pm

GFS dropping it again.
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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#879 Postby Digital-TC-Chaser » Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:50 am

Eric Webb‏ @webberweather 6h6 hours ago
More
Monstrous CCKW forecast to enter the Atlantic by next week, wherein KW filtered VP200 anomaly forecasts are exceeding 3.5 sigma. Yikes


Image


https://www.windy.com/?2017-08-04-06,16.678,-46.230,5
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Re: 2017 Global Model Runs Discussion (Out to day 16)

#880 Postby GCANE » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:28 am

IMHO, it is likely something will spin upin the East Atlantic ITCZ by Monday.
If and when this develops, the key feature to watch for development past 50W, around Thursday, will be if a TC forms in the EPAC.
The combination of an EPAC TC and the Bermuda High will create strong UL Winds thru the Carib and NE of the Islands.
This could potentially shred a developing system as it approaches the islands.
If either the EPAC TC does not develop as strongly or the Bermuda High is weaker than forecast, there could be an opportunity for further development past 50W.
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