ATL GUSTAV: Tropical Depression - Discussion

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KWT
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Re: Cat. 3 Hurricane Gustav in Gulf of Mexico

#9101 Postby KWT » Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:38 pm

cycloneye wrote:BREAKING NEWS=The Best Track at 00:00 UTC increase the winds to 105 kts.

AL, 07, 2008090100, , BEST, 0, 268N, 877W, 105, 950, HU,


not at all suprising really given recon found winds at FL probably high enough to justify increasing it to 105kts, next advissory will show that then, starting to steadily strengthen.

The reason why it can't get a solid eye showing is because the eyewall keeps opening up and on top of that the big convective bursting is oversepping into the eye I think.
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Re: Cat. 3 Hurricane Gustav in Gulf of Mexico

#9102 Postby ConvergenceZone » Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:39 pm

cycloneye wrote:BREAKING NEWS=The Best Track at 00:00 UTC increase the winds to 105 kts.

AL, 07, 2008090100, , BEST, 0, 268N, 877W, 105, 950, HU,



cycloneeye, can you elaborate on what that means??? Thanks! Is that a future projection of winds? or what they are currently?
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Re: Cat. 3 Hurricane Gustav in Gulf of Mexico

#9103 Postby Wthrman13 » Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:39 pm

Steve Cosby wrote:
WxGuy1 wrote:The best analysis I can find is from CIMSS, and it clearly shows at least 20 kts from the center northward. http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/tropic/real- ... g8shr.html



Something just hit me - if the shear is 20 knots from the south and the hurricane is moving NW at 17 knots would that not mean, and I'm not good at trigonometry, something likely "only" about 10 knots of effective shear?


Shear doesn't work that way... it's a difference between winds at different levels. 20 kts of shear is still 20 kts of shear, whether the difference is between an 80 kt wind aloft and a 60 kt wind below, or the difference between a 30 kt wind aloft, and a 10 kt wind below, and so on.

A hurricane moves with the steering flow, which is some weighted average of winds over a depth of the atmosphere, and is different for every system. A hurricane that is stationary and getting sheared from the south, if it started to move north, would experience less shear, not because it was moving "with" the shear, but because the low-level environmental winds have begun to line up more with the upper-level winds, both starting to move the hurricane north, and decreasing the shear at the same time.

I hope that makes sense, and any other met on here who wants to chime in with corrections or additions, please do so..
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Re: Cat. 3 Hurricane Gustav in Gulf of Mexico

#9104 Postby RL3AO » Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:39 pm

Lowpressure wrote:
ConvergenceZone wrote:What I want to know is, why is it so hard for an eye to show up with this system?? When the storm was yesterday morning, it was clearly showing....Any reason why there is no eye on the IR shots???

Wondering the same thing myself. Has there ever been another 949 hurricane with no visible eye?


Emily while a 952mb category 4.

http://www.nrlmry.navy.mil/tcdat/tc05/ATL/05L.EMILY/vis/geo/1km/20050715.1115.goes12.x.vis1km.05LEMILY.115kts-952mb-137N-683W.jpg
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Re: Hurricane Gustav Update=Best Track increases winds to 105kt

#9105 Postby hicksta » Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:40 pm

Anyone else hear 943mb off twc?
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#9106 Postby Dean4Storms » Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:41 pm

Isn't it about time for a tornado watch?
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#9107 Postby HouTXmetro » Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:41 pm

Since we are wobble casting looks like a big Jump West in the last VIS frame of the day.
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Re: Hurricane Gustav Update=Best Track increases winds to 105kt

#9108 Postby Sanibel » Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:41 pm

There's a half 'fist' going on right now. Probably just enough to carry it to landfall over the cooler water.

Offical track right over Lafayette.

Saying on TV that major oil transfer facility in bullseye at landfall.
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Re: Cat. 3 Hurricane Gustav in Gulf of Mexico

#9109 Postby ConvergenceZone » Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:42 pm

Hyperstorm wrote:Wind shear has abated on the SE and E side of the system. There is still shear there, but not as much as earlier this afternoon. I'm seeing the cloud tops on the eastern side expanding eastward which tell me about the shear. Since this has occured, the bursting pattern the system has exhibited all day has managed to mix out the dry air some and has expanded in the N and NW side.

One thing to keep in mind is that now that the storm is expanding in size, it would take a lower pressure to create higher winds. As everyone knows, things happen in the tropics that we don't understand due to the current state of science, but unless the current shear pattern changes drastically this should not become a Category 4.


Hyperstorm, do you think there's a possibility still for a higher cat 3 as opposed to a lower cat 3? I'm a bit concerned of how well it's starting to look on IR satellite. All we really need not is an eye to pop.


http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/flt/t1/avn-l.jpg
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Re: Hurricane Gustav Update=Best Track increases winds to 105kt

#9110 Postby masaji79 » Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:42 pm

Based upon IR satellite images the eye should be appearing soon.
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Re:

#9111 Postby Enzo Aquarius » Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:42 pm

Dean4Storms wrote:Isn't it about time for a tornado watch?


Heck, there's a tornado warning even before watches have been issued. :eek:
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Re: Hurricane Gustav Update=Best Track increases winds to 105kt

#9112 Postby Shockwave » Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:44 pm

hicksta wrote:Anyone else hear 943mb off twc?


I did, she messed up. It read "953" and she accidently said 943. But the latest number is 949 I thought?
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#9113 Postby KWT » Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:44 pm

Yep Sanibel the oil platforma going to take a good thrashing around.

105kts was my personal landfall strength, I think there is a chance it gets upto 110kts but for now 100-105kts looking likely to be the landfalling strength unless it decides to powerup again.
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Re:

#9114 Postby BigB0882 » Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:45 pm

HouTXmetro wrote:Since we are wobble casting looks like a big Jump West in the last VIS frame of the day.


Link please? Wouldn't surprise me one bit though.
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Re: Hurricane Gustav Update=Best Track increases winds to 105kt

#9115 Postby BlackNGoldRules » Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:46 pm

Shockwave wrote:
hicksta wrote:Anyone else hear 943mb off twc?


I did, she messed up. It read "953" and she accidently said 943. But the latest number is 949 I thought?


Well, the 8PM update was 953. They're probably still going by that.
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#9116 Postby KWT » Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:46 pm

convergencezone, I think to some extent we are already seeing the modest strengthening that was expected by so many occuring now, upto 105kts and pressure now down to 950mbs according to best track.
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Re: Hurricane Gustav Update=Best Track increases winds to 105kt

#9117 Postby Enzo Aquarius » Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:46 pm

Tornado warning south of New Orleans has been cancelled. Still getting thrashed with rain and thunderstorms though.
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Re: Cat. 3 Hurricane Gustav in Gulf of Mexico

#9118 Postby Squarethecircle » Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:47 pm

Lowpressure wrote:
ConvergenceZone wrote:What I want to know is, why is it so hard for an eye to show up with this system?? When the storm was yesterday morning, it was clearly showing....Any reason why there is no eye on the IR shots???

Wondering the same thing myself. Has there ever been another 949 hurricane with no visible eye?


Opal and Lenny come to mind immediately.
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Re: Cat. 3 Hurricane Gustav in Gulf of Mexico

#9119 Postby Hyperstorm » Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:48 pm

ConvergenceZone wrote:
Hyperstorm wrote:Wind shear has abated on the SE and E side of the system. There is still shear there, but not as much as earlier this afternoon. I'm seeing the cloud tops on the eastern side expanding eastward which tell me about the shear. Since this has occured, the bursting pattern the system has exhibited all day has managed to mix out the dry air some and has expanded in the N and NW side.

One thing to keep in mind is that now that the storm is expanding in size, it would take a lower pressure to create higher winds. As everyone knows, things happen in the tropics that we don't understand due to the current state of science, but unless the current shear pattern changes drastically this should not become a Category 4.


Hyperstorm, do you think there's a possibility still for a higher cat 3 as opposed to a lower cat 3? I'm a bit concerned of how well it's starting to look on IR satellite. All we really need not is an eye to pop.


http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/flt/t1/avn-l.jpg


If an eye pops out, all bets are off. I'm expecting this system to stay as is, with no eye, up until landfall, which should keep it a Category 3. Earlier, I said it should make landfall as a minimal Category 3 at most, but with the current battle with the shear/dry air being successfully won by Gustav, it could be closer to the what the NHC is forecasting 125-130.

Remember that wind shear is forecast to increase again as it moves closer to land and SSTs are very shallow near the shore, so even though strengthening appears imminent in the short-term, it should plateau tomorrow morning and/or start weakening some as it nears the coast.
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Re:

#9120 Postby vaffie » Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:48 pm

Dean4Storms wrote:Isn't it about time for a tornado watch?


Usually, yes, it would make sense. But when you've told everyone to run away, putting up a tornado watch is kind of moot.
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