Discussion about forecast/warning responsibility for STCs/TCs in the Mediterranean Sea

[TorSkk]

Such a shame that no agency officially monitors the Mediterranean for TCs

[Sciencerocks]

Such a shame that no agency officially monitors the Mediterranean for TCs

I wish france would take it as they already do advisories for the indian ocean but the nhc could also add it to their area.

Personally, I like the nhc display and methods so I am rooting for them to get it.

[TorSkk]

Such a shame that no agency officially monitors the Mediterranean for TCs

I wish france would take it as they already do advisories for the indian ocean but the nhc could also add it to their area.

Personally, I like the nhc display and methods so I am rooting for them to get it.

Yeah, I guess it wouldn't be too hard to just extend NHC's AOR, but Meteo France is probably more familiar with the region and maybe it would make communication with other European agencies easier.

[Dean_175]

Such a shame that no agency officially monitors the Mediterranean for TCs

I wish france would take it as they already do advisories for the indian ocean but the nhc could also add it to their area.

Personally, I like the nhc display and methods so I am rooting for them to get it.

The Med is not part of the Atlantic so should not be added to the NHC Atlantic basin. It would require them to treat it as a new basin. However this new basin doesn't intersect with the United States at all. Even east Pacific storms can have some impact on the US. At the end of the day, NHC is publicly funded with US tax and I just can't see the NHC issuing advisories for a different part of the world. Our NHC helps out Mexico, Cuba,Haiti, and other countries. But this would be different. Not to mention, the majority of storms that form there are no stronger than typical extratropical systems.

[TorSkk]

Such a shame that no agency officially monitors the Mediterranean for TCs

I wish france would take it as they already do advisories for the indian ocean but the nhc could also add it to their area.

Personally, I like the nhc display and methods so I am rooting for them to get it.

The Med is not part of the Atlantic so should not be added to the NHC Atlantic basin. It would require them to treat it as a new basin. However this new basin doesn't intersect with the United States at all. Even east Pacific storms can have some impact on the US. At the end of the day, NHC is publicly funded with US tax and I just can't see the NHC issuing advisories for a different part of the world. Our NHC helps out Mexico, Cuba,Haiti, and other countries. But this would be different. Not to mention, the majority of storms that form there are no stronger than typical extratropical systems.

Well, the US already funds NHC+CPHC+JTWC who monitor literally every single TC in the world regardless of its influence on US. Maybe monitoring the one occassional Med cyclone wouldn't hurt?

[DanieleItalyRm]

Not to mention, the majority of storms that form there are no stronger than typical extratropical systems.

In every part of the world every disturbance and every tropical depression from 15-33kt is followed and catalogued. Why not track and catalogued a 40-60kt storms over the Med? It is not a question of intensity but of globally coherent meteorology. It is because of unofficial classifications that many think that Mediterranean systems are only hybrids and have given rise to informal terms such as "medicane" or "tropical like cyclone".

[underthwx]

Maybe the JTWC could provide some coverage? Or possibly countries in the region could join forces and create an agency to cover these systems? Medicanes may not be as frequent as storms in the Atlantic and Pacific, but what is occurring now in the region, to me justifies the need for an agency to cover these storms, just my thoughts

[doomhaMwx]

I would personally nominate an agency that's in the Mediterranean region since there's less chance they'll miss these Medicanes (compared to NHC, for instance), and that would be Meteo France. Not only that, they are also an RSMC for the SW Indian Ocean, so I believe they have more expertise to analyze and warn on (sub)tropical cyclones compared to other agencies in the Mediterranean.

[dukeblue219]

Which meteorological organization has authority for issuing advisories over the Med?

[ChrisH-UK]

Well did the research and it is the Hellenic National Meteorological Service that is responsible for the Mediterranean.

And as for notices well that falls to ESTOFEX European Storm Forecast Experiment. People in Europe use them for there storm forecasts for severe storms and cyclones much like NWS. Here is there current notice -

Admin edit: See: https://www.storm2k.org/phpbb2/viewtopi ... 9#p3044039 for this bulletin

[AJC3]

Which meteorological organization has authority for issuing advisories over the Med?

The Mediterranean Sea is not (part of) a WMO-recognized Met Area, therefore there is no designated RSMC with official forecast/warning responsibility for it (in its entirety). National meteorological agencies issue forecasts and wanings for any impacts these systems might have on their respective countries and adjacent marine areas.

I know names are given to extratropical European wind storms (e.g. by FU-Berlin), however I think actual names given to Medicanes are done by a variety of official met agencies, academic institutions and even amateur weather collectives. If you look at the Medicane archive page here, you'll see that several of them have been given more than one name. Some of our European S2K members should be able to elaborate on this, or correct/clarify what I said.
(e.g. the post immediately above this one)

As far as how they are treated on the S2K forums, given the considerations above, the admins (I usually take the lead on this) make judgement calls on a case-by-case basis: (1) What to classify them as (XTC, STC or TC); (2) Where to put their respective active threads (either in Talking Tropics or Active Storms); and (3) What name or names (if any) they should be given.

[Hurricanehink]

I believe both the Mediterranean and the South Atlantic should be added as tropical cyclone basins. I also think there’s often too much focus on cyclones that are… tropical. I think every gale force cyclone around the world should be named. European windstorms are named (hence the naming for some of the Medicanes), and the Brazilian Navy names storms in the South Atlantic. Throw in the South-Pacific, and name all the Kona lows around Hawaii, then you’ll get most of them. And if we could have a database of every cyclone, then that will include storms like Haiyan and Patricia with Snowmageddon, Winter Storm Nemo, and those super strong extra tropical storms in the polar latitudes.

[AJC3]

As far as the suggested remedies in this thread go, any official solution would have to be officially proposed and agreed upon by the respective WMO member nations affected. IMO this is no small task and the process would likely take several meetings to hash out.

[Hurricanehink]

As far as the suggested remedies in this thread go, any official solution would have to be officially proposed and agreed upon by the respective WMO member nations affected. IMO this is no small task and the process would likely take several meetings to hash out.

Is there a petition we, the online weather community, could sign to get it considered? Surely it wouldn’t be that hard to get, say, 10,000 of us.

[tolakram]

Honestly, and I'm saying this as carefully as possible, in areas like the MED basin the local countries need to step up and pay for it. I don't see that happening, and I don't think it's a US agencies responsibility to take it over. It's too bad really. If I was in charge ....

[eastcoastFL]

The US Navy, coast guard and Air Force have a rather large presence most of the time in the Med so it would still make sense for the NHC to track storms there for both mariners and our service members. Though I know the Navy already tracks and forecasts for all global TC’s anyhow.

[ChrisH-UK]

The US Navy, coast guard and Air Force have a rather large presence most of the time in the Med so it would still make sense for the NHC to track storms there for both mariners and our service members. Though I know the Navy already tracks and forecasts for all global TC’s anyhow.

It is not NHC area, the area is this case is under the greek met service HNMS.

[kevin]

There should be an official agency tracking TCs in the Mediterranean basin to give accurate warnings and make people understand the danger of these storms. And also just to accurately keep track of TCs worldwide. Now we have one of the deadliest TCs in recent decades and almost no news articles or attention, partly because everyone calls it something else and there is no centralized information source.

[CyclonicFury]

Daniel met all of the criteria to be classified as a tropical storm, and it was quite a deadly storm too.

It's time for the Mediterranean to become officially recognized as a tropical cyclone basin.

[AJC3]

Sadly, it sometimes takes a disaster of this magnitude (significant loss of life/damage) for changes to be introduced and new policies put into place.

We'll see if Daniel winds up being the catalyst that effects a change to where the MED SEA becomes an official basin with a designated RSMC.