About the UN...

[streetsoldier]

This reported on MSN...the UN couldn't get free elections going in Serbia for the THIRD STRAIGHT TIME!

What makes anyone think they can do better in Iraq? The madding crowd awaits response...

This is but the most recent in a LONG line of UN ineffectiveness over the past 58 years. IMHO, we should send them offshore (France would welcome them!) and rent the building out as condos.

[coriolis]

Yeah, and maybe the new residents would pay THEIR parking tickets.

But seriously,

IYO (In your opinion) is it the UN's failing, or is it that the Serbians don't know how handle their "freedom?" I'm just asking: is it too much to expect for people who have been under authoritarian gov'ts for generations to behave democratically?

And, at the risk of veering off topic, can we expect the same in Iraq?

[rainstorm]

the un is pathetic. i feel sorry for the serbians

[mf_dolphin]

The UN is the world's largest collection of politicians! It shouldn't surprise anyone that they can't get anything done

[Guest]

Anyway nobody kills each other just to have supremacy.
Democracy is a long way to go for those that recently preferred to shot who did not think or believe the same way.

What's your proposal? Bombing them all and let's clear the problem or just force 'em all to go voting with a rifle on their heads?

Who's claiming for UN help in Iraq? Mr Bush if I'm not wrong... Naaah I must be wrong.

Ciao
Paolo

[streetsoldier]

Paolo, assistance is one thing...giving over total control to the UN is another story, and given its track record, we are not "going there".

[stormchazer]

Anyway nobody kills each other just to have supremacy.
Democracy is a long way to go for those that recently preferred to shot who did not think or believe the same way.

What's your proposal? Bombing them all and let's clear the problem or just force 'em all to go voting with a rifle on their heads?

Who's claiming for UN help in Iraq? Mr Bush if I'm not wrong... Naaah I must be wrong.

Ciao
Paolo

Did the UN protect the people in Bosnia? "This is a UN protected zone"...and the Serbs marched in and slaughtered the town while the UN stood by. United Nations peacekeepers failed to stop murders and genocide in Rwanda and behaved submissively to the Serbs while Moslems were being massacred. Where was the UN in Rwanda? Tried to do the same in Kosovo until NATO stepped in and took care of business. Took some music artist who cared, to get food to Africa in the 80's. How about Korea? Today American soldiers are still in Korea testifying to the failure of UN Forces. UN was asked to investigate slave labor in the Soviet Union in mid-70s. UN did nothing! Women are denied basic rights in Asia and Arab countries in the name of religion and the United Nations sets idle bowing its head to Asian and Arabian leaders. I could go on and on.

Bush is looking for help from UN because he wants the international community to get involved. He knows they are too chicken-sh#t to get involved on their own and he also knows that we have other fish to fry and wants to free up our forces to do so. We have so many forces all over cleaning up , or covering up UN messes that we are streched thin. He also is trying to lesson the crying coming from Democrats here, France overseas along with EU (P-U in my book), and relax pressure on Tony Blair.

Face it....you and a lot of European countries resent the US and its economic and military strength. Diplomacy is one thing but sometimes you got to use the point of a gun to get results and so far we seem to be the only ones who are willing to put our guys in danger to effect long needed change. I guess us sending aid all over the world is a sign of our warmongering ways. Helping rebuild Italy after WWII, then canceling the debt is another. The UN would prefer the US become a weakling so it could become the world governing council. Everything the UN touches turns to crap.

[Guest]

Results? What results? I was in Rwanda, Bujumbura city, we had 40 children in change of 8tons of food, hostages of local warriors. Who can change the things there? The WTO that make its own business in keeping them poor and starving? The multinationals that need to keep them in constant war, so that they can put their puppets leading the countries?
Results? Where? Somalia maybe? Nicaragua? India?
Have u ever been there? have u ever seen the "results"?

European countries maybe realised that it is quite dangerous following America's crusade because of mr Bush's economic reasons. Look at the map: we live very close to "them", "tehy" do not need an aircraft to come to us. Rummy World is not the only "bad" place over there, e.g. Saudi Arabia: they apply the same rules and religion but ops... they're friends...

America wants to be the world's sheriff, but aim its gun only where it's convenient... I do not like it. I believe in people's self determination, and diplomacy, and talks.

[stormchazer]

Results? What results? I was in Rwanda, Bujumbura city, we had 40 children in change of 8tons of food, hostages of local warriors. Who can change the things there? The WTO that make its own business in keeping them poor and starving? The multinationals that need to keep them in constant war, so that they can put their puppets leading the countries?
Results? Where? Somalia maybe? Nicaragua? India?
Have u ever been there? have u ever seen the "results"?

European countries maybe realised that it is quite dangerous following America's crusade because of mr Bush's economic reasons. Look at the map: we live very close to "them", "tehy" do not need an aircraft to come to us. Rummy World is not the only "bad" place over there, e.g. Saudi Arabia: they apply the same rules and religion but ops... they're friends...

America wants to be the world's sheriff, but aim its gun only where it's convenient... I do not like it. I believe in people's self determination, and diplomacy, and talks.

Then tell your country to put its money where its mouth is. The US dumps 22% of the UN Budget into the UN. We are the #1 contributer to the fallacy that is the UN. The US pays more then Italy, France, Germany and Russia combined. Italy pays 5.104%.

The UN baled in Somolia. We beat the insurgents in Nicaragua. They have free elections. Heck the UN has baled from Iraq.

Yeah...we are dangerous. We were dangerous to put missiles in Germany in the 80's to stop the Soviets...oh the the USSR is gone. We were dangerous to bomb Libya when they blew up a disco. Oh...Qadaffi has been real quiet. Should never had engineered the bombing of Serbia...oh Milosevic is gone too. Yeah...you keep following the UN. Keep talking. Oh but the truth came out...

European countries maybe realised that it is quite dangerous following America's crusade because of mr Bush's economic reasons. Look at the map: we live very close to "them", "tehy" do not need an aircraft to come to us. Rummy World is not the only "bad" place over there, e.g. Saudi Arabia: they apply the same rules and religion but ops... they're friends...

Your afraid they may attack you. Sounds like the UN. Let other people die as long as my little world is safe under the wimpy UN. How much is your soverignty worth? Red Brigade been quiet lately? Thats fine...be quiet then and don't judge us while we protect ourselves. Nobody will look out for us so we will...thats the way we prefer it anyway.

[j]

I'd like to see what would happen to the rest of this world, if the US stopped all aid, pulled all their troops back, and let all of you smaller, basically defenseless nations (like Italy) fend for themselves.

Perhaps you could get the UN to help you out, save your a**, when the likes of SH take over your little parcels of land.

Your tone paola, is a tone that saddens us Americans who give in blood to keep the World free from Tyranny. I cannot for the life of me, understand "your" resentment. Can you honestly say you would be better off if Germany had just crushed your little country?

Where the hell is the gratitude??? that is what I'd like to know.!!!!

[Guest]

Italy probably would have been where Germany is, since we were allied to mr Adolf first. Then, one day of 1943 (8of september) somebody of our government decided that was enough, and that was better to call the Allied "Allied", in stead of "the enemy".
Anyway we were fighting for our freedom against ourselves (fascists were italians, remember?), more than the Germans and for sure not less than the French. Have we paied enough for that? Or it's a never ending debt?
Tomorrow Italy will stop to celebrate their sons returned in a flag from Nassyria. They were there because of that debt. They were helping people, not bombing but they're dead becuase they're invaders, sent there because we must please our big friend.

Here, have a look, just for fun

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2001/09/power.htm
http://globetrotter.berkeley.edu/people2/Power/power-con4.html

[mf_dolphin]

So you're point is if we interfere we're wrong and if we don't we're wrong? I would call that a no win situation....

[Guest]

Mf, my point is: this war to Iraq is wrong, and the reasons claimed by Bush and Blair are wrong.

I admit that international institutions often fails, because we all are defending our own interests more than life. The problem is that we should never consider ourselves as the goods and the others the evils. We are all good and evil, we should manage it in a different way.
Which way? First respect, second tolerance, and third:
US refused Kioto protocol, to reduce carbon dioxide. You know why? That's meaning our entire world is in danger, you all here see everyday how funny weather is and is becoming. Do you really believe that who is not taking care of our world, is taking care about the freedom of a number of iraquis?
I think of it, and the answer in me is: no.

You believe what you wanna believe, but please: don't say this is a war for humanity.

[Lindaloo]

I would say this is about freeing a people from a Satanic evil man. The people of Iraq are free.

After a release of intelligence it concludes that there was a link between Bin Laden, Hussein and 9/11. Can I ask you Paolo? Did you rejoice in the streets when we were attacked by those cowards?

[Guest]

Of course not Lindaloo, that was a tragedy, how can u think I had a party enjoyng the fireworks? that's hurting me as enybody else here.

[mf_dolphin]

I would say this is about freeing a people from a Satanic evil man. The people of Iraq are free.

After a release of intelligence it concludes that there was a link between Bin Laden, Hussein and 9/11. Can I ask you Paolo? Did you rejoice in the streets when we were attacked by those cowards?

For too long America allowed people like Saddam Hussein to underwrite and sponsor world wide terror organizations. I am proud of us for finally stepping up to the plate and doing something about it. Hopefully this won't be the last tyrannt we stand up to!

As far as your point Paolo about negotiating first... we did that for 12 plus years. It was time for action!

[Guest]

Linda, take this as a provocation, just to make minds think.

Fifteen years after thousands of people were killed in a poison gas leak at a Union Carbide pesticide factory in Bhopal, India, lawyers have filed a class action lawsuit in New York charging the corporation with violating the fundamental human rights of the victims and survivors of the disaster. The toxic gas killed at least 16,000 according to local estimates; tens of thousands continue to suffer. The suit has been filed under the Alien Tort Claims Act that provides for civil remedies for criminal violation of international law by U.S.-based corporations.

The lawsuit alleges that Union Carbide "demonstrated a reckless and depraved indifference to human life in the design, operation and maintenance" of the Union Carbide facility in Bhopal. The complaint also charges "that the defendants are liable for fraud and civil contempt for their total failure to comply with the lawful orders of the courts of both the United States and India." The plaintiffs in the case include individual survivors as well as the victims' organizations in Bhopal that have been representing survivors and next-of-kin of victims for the past 15 years.

If u were an indian (one of those screaming "you want osama, give us anderson" - you know, the Union Carbide President), would you consider this fact as a good reason to invade USA, and free them from their politicians that cause so many casualties?

Or here, in Italy, some years ago an american aircraft (an A6 Prowler) striked a cablecar and killed dozens, because the crew was "having fun" over the mountains. That pilot has not been charged, and we knew he was promoted from Capt to maj. Would you been one of those parents, what would have you done?

[Guest]

For too long America allowed people like Saddam Hussein to underwrite and sponsor world wide terror organizations. I am proud of us for finally stepping up to the plate and doing something about it. Hopefully this won't be the last tyrannt we stand up to!

As far as your point Paolo about negotiating first... we did that for 12 plus years. It was time for action!

Yes, except when Saddam was helped by US because of Iran, and Osama because he was facing the old enemies russians...

A joke here say: "Bush junior wants the weapons back from Saddam, left there by Bush senior".

[mf_dolphin]

I guess that facts aren't important in Italy. Yes we did assist Saddam at one time. That was a long time prior to President Bush Sr. The countries so far implicated in helping Saddam post Kuwait are Germany, France, Russia, and yes Italy! If we're going to be critical let's tell the whole story

[Lindaloo]

First of all Paolo. I am an 1/2 Indian. So your point is moot to me.

I agree Marshall!! It is about time we stepped up and did something about this tyrant. Unfortunately, it took a tragedy like 9/11 for us to finally rid ourselves of one of them!! NEXT!!

Where did you get this info about an American Airliner?

" The United States and several Western European nations became involved in the war in 1987, in response to Iranian attacks on Kuwaiti oil tankers traveling in the Persian Gulf. These attacks sullied Iran's international reputation considerably, making it difficult for Khomeini to obtain arms. Finally, in July, 1988, Iran was forced to accept a United Nations-mandated cease-fire. Estimates of the number of dead range up to 1.5 million. In its war effort, Iran was supported by Syria and Libya, and received much of its weaponry from North Korea and China, as well as from covert arms transactions from the United States."

Kinda blows your theory right out the window huh?