Some thoughts on Bonnie and future Charley ....

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Stormsfury
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Some thoughts on Bonnie and future Charley ....

#1 Postby Stormsfury » Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:24 pm

This is the THIRD attempt to post these thoughts ... hopefully, I won't have any more PC issues here ...

Bonnie ...

Bonnie hasn't really better any better organized tonight ... winds should remain at 40 kts, maybe a slight bump to 45 kts SHOULD convection around the tight low-level center still generate some rather intense convection around the center ... Bonnie appears to have slowed some this evening, and is somewhat being affected by some light E or NE shear ... the model guidance is generally spread towards a recurvature to the NE and making landfall in the FL panhandle and then through the SE'ern States thereafter ... right now, I believe that the primary threat could actually be more in the way of severe weather and tornadoes in the NE quad as the system makes landfall ... Flooding doesn't appear to be a huge concern since an unusually deep trough for this time of year should keep Bonnie moving quite progressively as the trough swings down and catches it ...

Charley ...

T.D. #3 IMHO looks like Tropical Storm Charley already ... some convection is rebuilding around the center tonight as the convection well ahead fans out and away from the center, allowing for a little more in the way of inflow towards the LLC ... the system has a very pronounced MLC and has that buzzsaw like appearance to it already ... the cyclone has good banding features and a healthy looking outflow.

IMHO, the future Charley has all the potential in the world to become a significant storm, however, it'll take some time to consolidate itself for now, since the cyclone has such a large envelope ... typically, once these large systems are able to consolidate, they can take off with some startling effects, and sometimes can go through intensification periods that last 24-36 hours before levelling off ... one of the things that has me very concerned is that SHOULD Charley become a significant system, there's really nowhere it CAN'T go that at some point it won't encounter land ...

Ok ... why I think Bonnie won't become too strong, and Charley has the potential to become a significant storm ...

TCHP and SST over 26ºC depths ...

One of the parameters of rapid intensifications lies with the SST's and the DEPTH of 26ºC depths ... SST depths generally have to run in the order of about 100-150M deep to support rapid intensification ... we saw that with Alex as it crossed the Gulf Stream waters when it became a major hurricane ... the TCHP was quite high, running over 200 KJ/cm-2 and the SST's DEPTHS over 26ºC were as deep as 200M ...

Bonnie will only have a small window to do so, it will have an area that is sufficient to support some quick intensification SHOULD the conditions be favorable enough to support it, (unlike Alex's situation) ... and it does not have a strong diffluent atmosphere like Alex did as well when it experienced shear (remember, the divergence aloft from the NE shear, and then the SW'ly shear actually aided in Alex's convection) ... see FIG. 1 and 2 below ...

This is the TCHP on 8.8.04 .. Notice the GOM is at best, only at the highest point, the TCHP is around 100 KJ/cm-2 ... FIG. 2 and 3 --- notice the HIGH TCHP off the coast of North Carolina on 8.2.04 and the SST DEPTHS over 26ºC on 8.2.04 ... dramatically DEEP ... off the charts, actually ... FIG 4. --- SST DEPTHS in the GOM/Western Caribbean over 26ºC ... greatest depths of sufficiently warm waters extend across most of the Western Caribbean, meanwhile only a small area in the GOM ...

FIG. 1 ---
Image
FIG. 2 ---
Image
FIG. 3 ---
[img]http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/phod/cyclone/data/MAPS/AT/2004215atd26.png
FIG. 4 ---
Image

SF
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#2 Postby Brent » Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:27 pm

Great discussion. Bonnie's winds are up to 45 kts at 11pm.
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#3 Postby Stormsfury » Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:39 pm

T.D. #3 beginning to develop some good convection around the center ... and looking more and more like Charley at 5 am ...

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/TROP/DATA/RT ... -loop.html
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#4 Postby USAwx1 » Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:41 pm

Stormsfury wrote:This is the THIRD attempt to post these thoughts ... hopefully, I won't have any more PC issues here ...

Bonnie ...

Bonnie hasn't really better any better organized tonight ... winds should remain at 40 kts, maybe a slight bump to 45 kts SHOULD convection around the tight low-level center still generate some rather intense convection around the center ... Bonnie appears to have slowed some this evening, and is somewhat being affected by some light E or NE shear ... the model guidance is generally spread towards a recurvature to the NE and making landfall in the FL panhandle and then through the SE'ern States thereafter ... right now, I believe that the primary threat could actually be more in the way of severe weather and tornadoes in the NE quad as the system makes landfall ... Flooding doesn't appear to be a huge concern since an unusually deep trough for this time of year should keep Bonnie moving quite progressively as the trough swings down and catches it ...

Charley ...

T.D. #3 IMHO looks like Tropical Storm Charley already ... some convection is rebuilding around the center tonight as the convection well ahead fans out and away from the center, allowing for a little more in the way of inflow towards the LLC ... the system has a very pronounced MLC and has that buzzsaw like appearance to it already ... the cyclone has good banding features and a healthy looking outflow.

IMHO, the future Charley has all the potential in the world to become a significant storm, however, it'll take some time to consolidate itself for now, since the cyclone has such a large envelope ... typically, once these large systems are able to consolidate, they can take off with some startling effects, and sometimes can go through intensification periods that last 24-36 hours before levelling off ... one of the things that has me very concerned is that SHOULD Charley become a significant system, there's really nowhere it CAN'T go that at some point it won't encounter land ...

Ok ... why I think Bonnie won't become too strong, and Charley has the potential to become a significant storm ...

TCHP and SST over 26ºC depths ...

One of the parameters of rapid intensifications lies with the SST's and the DEPTH of 26ºC depths ... SST depths generally have to run in the order of about 100-150M deep to support rapid intensification ... we saw that with Alex as it crossed the Gulf Stream waters when it became a major hurricane ... the TCHP was quite high, running over 200 KJ/cm-2 and the SST's DEPTHS over 26ºC were as deep as 200M ...

Bonnie will only have a small window to do so, it will have an area that is sufficient to support some quick intensification SHOULD the conditions be favorable enough to support it, (unlike Alex's situation) ... and it does not have a strong diffluent atmosphere like Alex did as well when it experienced shear (remember, the divergence aloft from the NE shear, and then the SW'ly shear actually aided in Alex's convection) ... see FIG. 1 and 2 below ...

This is the TCHP on 8.8.04 .. Notice the GOM is at best, only at the highest point, the TCHP is around 100 KJ/cm-2 ... FIG. 2 and 3 --- notice the HIGH TCHP off the coast of North Carolina on 8.2.04 and the SST DEPTHS over 26ºC on 8.2.04 ... dramatically DEEP ... off the charts, actually ... FIG 4. --- SST DEPTHS in the GOM/Western Caribbean over 26ºC ... greatest depths of sufficiently warm waters extend across most of the Western Caribbean, meanwhile only a small area in the GOM ...

FIG. 1 ---
Image
FIG. 2 ---
Image
FIG. 3 ---
[img]http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/phod/cyclone/data/MAPS/AT/2004215atd26.png
FIG. 4 ---
Image

SF


Bonnie is also a VERY compact system w/ TS force winds only extending outward up to 45 KM from the center. BTW, for development you need at least 26 DEG C (80F) through a depth of at least 50m. Great post though!
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#5 Postby Guest » Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:43 pm

the circulation is huge on this storm; reminds me of isadore. i think was the name of that storm. in the gulf a couple of years ago. Charley will most likely trim down in the future, but if it were to become a hurricane, it will most likely be a big one in diametrical scope...
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NorthGaWeather

#6 Postby NorthGaWeather » Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:57 pm

Bonnie is looking better tonight. 79 F temps will support tropical development. The rapid intensification aspects has alot to do also with the mid/upper level wind environment.
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#7 Postby USAwx1 » Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:07 pm

NorthGaWeather wrote:Bonnie is looking better tonight. 79 F temps will support tropical development. The rapid intensification aspects has alot to do also with the mid/upper level wind environment.


Yes, but you also need sufficient latent heat (provided by the warm SST) and moisture through the lowest 5 km. SAL can be a BIG negative in the intensification process, due to the entrainment of the dry and stable air associated w/ it into a system. Normally vertical shear of 20 kt (10 m/s) or less is favorable for intensification.
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#8 Postby Sean in New Orleans » Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:43 pm

Bonnie is definitely blowing up tonight. There is big convection around the center and the convection is almost circular. Several mets in New Orleans tonight on TV highlighted this recent blow-up of convection around the center, as well. Bonnie looks more like a nice tropical storm this evening and I would bet there are gusty winds approaching 60 mph in those squalls around the center late this evening.
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