La Nina struggling to develop

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La Nina struggling to develop

#1 Postby Anonymous » Thu Jun 12, 2003 5:23 pm

Image

Latest SSTA data shows that the area of warm SSTAs in Nino regions 4 is still intact, and if anything is spreading further east. The cool anomalies from off Peru to Nino region 3 are diminishing some. In other words, La Nina has still not arrived, and is not even close to doing so. Why the warming? First off, it's only a fluctuation. A fluctuation caused by a large wet MJO that has been present in the Pacific for about a month now, which in addition to increasing TC development, tends to increase the SSTAs. As I speak, a large dry MJO is moving into the area. As it does so, we should see the Pacific SSTAs gradually cool down again. This cooling could possibly ultimately lead to La Nina and if not, then we will have to wait for the next wet MJO, which is due in early September. Either way, we should get a weak La Nina in time for the climax of the Atlantic hurricane season. Enhancing? You betcha.
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#2 Postby cycloneye » Thu Jun 12, 2003 5:40 pm

Even if neutral conditions of ENSO prevails atlantic basin cyclonic activity will be above average as in many years that has been neutral those years haved been active.Maybe Stormsfury has some data about that.
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Rainband

#3 Postby Rainband » Thu Jun 12, 2003 5:47 pm

At any rate this year will be an interesting one!!! :wink:
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#4 Postby Stormsfury » Thu Jun 12, 2003 6:38 pm

There are enough factors in place even with a neutral ENSO season to likely be an active one and TD #2 gave us a head ups of what down the road IMO ... however, as Supercane pointed out ... fluctuations, fluctuations, fluctuations ... El Niño did the same thing during February and March ... and likewise the flip-flopping will occur this month, and maybe even next month ...

I don't have specifics to the actual years of El Niño, La Niña, and La Nada years ... but do have archived SOI numbers, which isn't exactly the best true tell indicator of aforementioned above, it would take quite some time to sift through all the data ...
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#5 Postby Anonymous » Thu Jun 12, 2003 6:42 pm

I expect we WILL see a weak La Nina present by the peak of the season. It's just taking its time to develop, and could end up being a close call for La Nina developing on time. In any event, an active season seems likely. Just for fun, here are all the neutral ENSO years and their observed Atlantic TC activity since 1950.

1951: 10/8/5
1952: 7/6/3
1959: 11/7/2
1960: 7/4/2
1961: 11/8/7
1962: 5/3/1
1967: 8/6/1
1976: 8/6/2
1977: 6/5/1
1978: 11/5/2
1979: 8/5/2
1980: 11/9/2
1981: 11/7/3
2001: 15/9/4
Average: 9.2/6.2/2.6
Last edited by Anonymous on Thu Jun 12, 2003 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#6 Postby cycloneye » Thu Jun 12, 2003 6:45 pm

Yes SF that is a key word (Fluctuations) and that is what is happening in the pacific but not a definite trend yet towards la nina.
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#7 Postby cycloneye » Thu Jun 12, 2003 6:52 pm

Thanks Rob for providing those stats of years with neutral ENSO.Looking at those years it shows that average to slightly below average seasons and years of way below average and one year of way above average.

I remember very well 1979 as David a cat 4 cane passed 90 miles south of Puerto Rico and Frederick passed over PR as a TS.And that year was below average 8/5/2.
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#8 Postby Stormsfury » Thu Jun 12, 2003 6:59 pm

Thanks, Supercane for posting those numbers ... very interesting, before the multi-decadal phase shift - notice that the numbers are lower compared to 2001 ... interestingly enough, the first year of Neutral ENSO in 20 years ... Great info...
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#9 Postby Anonymous » Thu Jun 12, 2003 7:02 pm

No problem guys :). Plus, don't forget that during those years prior to the satellite era, there were probably several weaker TSs that were missed. That's why the named storm numbers are very low in a lot of those years.

This year, even if we were to get neutral ENSO during the peak, I'd expect TC activity to be well above the average of the past neutral years due to the intense Atlantic thermahaline circulation. Quite a lot of other lesser factors will be favorable as well.
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#10 Postby wx247 » Thu Jun 12, 2003 7:07 pm

Very interesting discussion guys! Thanks for sharing.
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ColdFront77

#11 Postby ColdFront77 » Thu Jun 12, 2003 7:08 pm

Sorry for being picky... but being interested in statistics as many of you know I found these to be the averages of 9.2/6.2/2.6, rather than 9.2/5.9/2.6
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Anonymous

#12 Postby Anonymous » Thu Jun 12, 2003 7:18 pm

Sorry for being picky... but being interested in statistics as many of you know I found these to be the averages of 9.2/6.2/2.6, rather than 9.2/5.9/2.6


Yeah you're right...my bad.
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#13 Postby Stormsfury » Thu Jun 12, 2003 7:24 pm

Rob, question ... I have 9/6/2 for 1979 ... and you have 8/5/2

On my records, I think our difference is a subtropical Hurricane from 10/23 to 10/25 ... which only had 9 advisories written on the final "best track"...
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#14 Postby Anonymous » Thu Jun 12, 2003 7:30 pm

Yeah, I didn't count subtropical systems. Thought it would screw up the average since subtropical storms were not archived prior to the 70s.
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#15 Postby Stormsfury » Thu Jun 12, 2003 8:33 pm

I gotcha ... going back into my archives, the first (earliest) subtropical storm tracked in the best track analogs was in 1968, if anyone's interested ...

Sorry for the long time between posts ... I'm trying to install on a new PC with no success ... the cable modem connection and a brand new digital camera I bought this afternoon ...
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#16 Postby Steve » Thu Jun 12, 2003 8:52 pm

The 13th 00 Otis anomaly is out. Warmest relative in the Atlantic is around 30N 60W, 42-45N, 60 W, NC coast and SW FL.

http://www.fnoc.navy.mil/products/OTIS/ ... nomaly.gif
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If Anything...

#17 Postby MWatkins » Thu Jun 12, 2003 11:37 pm

SST temps in Nino 3.4 (out to the west) are nominal compared to surrounding sst temps. They are no warmer or cooler than the sst's to the north or south...so it's a draw there...whereas they were warmer than the surrounding temps 6 months ago. They are cooling down.

Going further east...cool anoms have at least maintained over the last 2 weeks or so.

Nino is a non-factor this season. The question is HOW FAST will nina develop?

MW
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