NO mayor on Oprah

[ROCK]

Just saw these clips from earlier today. This guy needs to shut his trap and own up to some responsiblity. The whole show basically is him covering his butt on why things went the way they did at the Superdome. Hes the one who told them to go there....doh...

[jojo]

Sorry to dispute that but I was watching from Friday here in the Uk on wwltv and Nagin was absolutely vociferous in his encouragement of evacuation. He said that he was leaving himself and was only prevented from insisting on a mandatory evacuation due to legal means. At that stage, he said that the Superdome was only going to be available to people with special medical needs and that all people should call to see if they were eligible before they turned up there. When the mandatory announcement came, only then was it made known that everyone would be welcome at the dome. If it hadn't have been done that way, I think there would have been closer to 100,000 turn up at the dome.

He's constantly called for action, knowing that he was damned if he did call the evacuation (after Ivan) and damned if he didn't and the worst happened. He's been in the thick of it and if he hadn't been shouting and swearing during days 3 and 4, I really wonder how much of this disaster could have been covered up.

Whatever's happened, you can't say he hasn't been screaming for action, no matter how much this indicts himself. I'd trust him a millions times more than I would Blanco, Fema or Bush. He has nothing to lose at the moment as he is ruined regardless, so he may as well scream as loudly as he can so that every last possible person is saved. That's exactly what he has done in my opinion.

It is absolutely obvious that this man is going to be made the fall guy over all this. He's easy meat and he's too emotional to weasel his way out of that. I'd still rather trust him than anyone else though - from watching him right from 48hrs before Katrina hit, I've never doubted a word he has said.

Jo

[LSU2001]

I agree in large part with what you say Jo but Mr. Nagin has blown several calls himself. He ordered a Mandatory evac only 10-12 hours before tropical storm force winds were being felt in NOLA> He also did not facilitate transportation to either the superdome or out of the city as the emergency evac plan called for. As late as Sat. night he was announcing that all that can should leave but stopped short of saying that everyone must go. His exact words were"I'll be a little more forceful in the morning" The evac and contraflow plan calls for staged evacs STARTING 50 hours before TS winds are forecast. He called for evacs well after it was either safe or prudent to do so. Also the pic of all the school buses sitting flooded in their parking lots will do little to show how he used all means at his disposal to transport people out of the city. Mr. Nagin has some responsiblity for the outcome of this disaster, though not all. Another point Mr. Nagin fails to mention is that he announced Monday night that NOLA had dodged major damage. He stated that the flooding was much less than was feared. By Tues. Morning it was clear that the Levee had failed and flooding was occuring. At that point he had about 9-12 hours to mobilize and evac. people from both the superdome and the convention center. He did not order such an emergency evac.

Our dear (sarcasm) Gov. Blanco has much more responsiblity in my opinion. She was much more concerned with political posturing and crying on the morning talk shows than makeing critical decisions and implementing disaster plans. She was extremly hesitant in bringing in the National Guard and asking formally for Federal Help. She got in front of TV cameras and cried and begged for help but did not send the necessary paperwork to washington to federalize the emergency management. She still has not allowed President Bush to take control of this disaster on the Federal Level. I fault her and only her for this gross negelect for our great state and its citizens. I will provide a link a the end of my post to verify what I am saying about gov. Blanco and her refusal to allow the Federal Govt. to take over and manage this collosal Cluster F##. Sorry for the strong language but that is exactly how I feel. The first real relief our citizens, left abandoned in NOLA ,saw was friday when Active Duty Military units and National Guard units mobilized from other states by President Bush began rolling into town. I know it was late but this tardiness was a direct result of Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin being indecisive and not taking action. In this case the disaster overwhelmed the resources available to the STate of Louisiana and our leaders did not either realize it or did not want to relinquish control to outside agencies. either way it cost American Lives and there will be hell to pay if I have anything to do about it. I am currently interested in either starting or participating in a recall drive to get Gov. Blanco out of office NOW not later. She has proven that she is incapable of leading our state in a time or crisis and that she is incapable of making decisions in a timely and practical manner.
TIm

LINK: http://www.2theadvocate.com/stories/090 ... o001.shtml

[Billy Anderson]

how bought them school busses?
If I were a NO school bus driver I would've left town just after parking my bus after school on Friday...would'nt you?
So just who would've been driving THE bus?
Oh I'm sure SOME of the drivers' supers were in on the DR/Evacuation plans...but then again???

[superfly]

He also did not facilitate transportation to either the superdome or out of the city as the emergency evac plan called for.

Yes he did.

[temujin]

The buses should have been used to evac people, starting Saturday. Granted, they could have only got a couple runs before the storm hit, but they still could have got 25,000 to 30,000 people out.

But where would those people go? If there were no shelters open for them, then it wouldn't be responsbile to drive them to Baton Rouge and drop them off in the street.

Primary responsiblity for this lies with the state of Louisiana.

[MBismyPlayground]

He also did not facilitate transportation to either the superdome or out of the city as the emergency evac plan called for.

Yes he did.

Superfly, do you know something that we do not??? If so please tell us.
At this point there has been NO ONE who has mentioned buses picking them up or anything of that nature. I also have not seen any pictures or video showing buses outside of the superdome, prior to the hurricane like the evacuation plan specifies.

[superfly]

He also did not facilitate transportation to either the superdome or out of the city as the emergency evac plan called for.

Yes he did.

Superfly, do you know something that we do not??? If so please tell us.
At this point there has been NO ONE who has mentioned buses picking them up or anything of that nature. I also have not seen any pictures or video showing buses outside of the superdome, prior to the hurricane like the evacuation plan specifies.

RTA buses were available in various areas of the city and suburbs for transport to the Superdome throughout the day on Sunday.

[MBismyPlayground]

Interesting......This is the very first time I have seen this mentioned during all of this.
So this was transportation to the superdome only???
Were there any buses parked out front of the superdome to transport people from the dome to outlying host parish shelters???
I am not being sarcastic by the way, I really want to know.

[Terry]

MBismyPlayground wrote:

Superfly, do you know something that we do not??? If so please tell us.
At this point there has been NO ONE who has mentioned buses picking them up or anything of that nature. I also have not seen any pictures or video showing buses outside of the superdome, prior to the hurricane like the evacuation plan specifies.

If you want to get into who did and didn't implement plans that they were responsible for, then you also need to look at the lack of implementation of the
National Response Plan.
http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlibrar ... seplan.pdf

[Billy Anderson]

In the Mayor's and other Gov't's defense, I'm wondering just how many city/state/federal employees, including the bus drivers, were out of town on vacation. It was, afterall, the week before the Labor Day holiday. He hasn't really said it, but, is it possible that there was a critical mass of no shows?...You know, the folks who really run the government's day-to-day grind...the ones who were involved in formulating, testing, and reviewing the DR plans. I'll betcha there wasn't even one school bus driver sitting on any DR planning committee. Yet, the mayor seems to be criticized for not using the busses to get people to relative safety. I imagine the SB drivers left town just like everyone else. Who would've told them that the evacuation order does not apply to them. I've never before considered an SB driver to be part of the "first responders" or "critical gov't employees" club.

[superfly]

Interesting......This is the very first time I have seen this mentioned during all of this.
So this was transportation to the superdome only???
Were there any buses parked out front of the superdome to transport people from the dome to outlying host parish shelters???
I am not being sarcastic by the way, I really want to know.

Yes, transportation to the Superdome only. Nagin had neither the resources nor the authority to set-up transportation to shelters outside Orleans Parish, that has to be done on the state gov. level with more resources.

[MBismyPlayground]

MBismyPlayground wrote:

Superfly, do you know something that we do not??? If so please tell us.
At this point there has been NO ONE who has mentioned buses picking them up or anything of that nature. I also have not seen any pictures or video showing buses outside of the superdome, prior to the hurricane like the evacuation plan specifies.

If you want to get into who did and didn't implement plans that they were responsible for, then you also need to look at the lack of implementation of the
National Response Plan.
http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlibrar ... seplan.pdf

I have seen this doc. but thanks. I am not trying to play the blame game at this point.......More interested in painting the big ugly picture.......and then it will become REAL and TRUE and the blame will never be questioned as it will be all right there for all to see. No sense in trying to point fingers yet......Just help paint the big picture

[MBismyPlayground]

Interesting......This is the very first time I have seen this mentioned during all of this.
So this was transportation to the superdome only???
Were there any buses parked out front of the superdome to transport people from the dome to outlying host parish shelters???
I am not being sarcastic by the way, I really want to know.

Yes, transportation to the Superdome only. Nagin had neither the resources nor the authority to set-up transportation to shelters outside Orleans Parish, that has to be done on the state gov. level with more resources.

Not trying to get into a P*ing contest here. But he may not have had resources but so far seems he did have the authority although he may not have realized this. He was asked about this today and replied NO COMMENT. But, As I have said, it is not the time to point fingers. Time to put the pieces together.

[crazycajuncane]

One word... Blanco!

You guys will see.... Blanco dropped the ball here.

These things work on chain of command.

Nagin says on Tuesday or Wednesday... I want martial law... I need troops in here.... Blanco says... I gotta think about this.... Bush is saying... hand it over Blanco.

The middle man here.... actually a woman... did not understand how bad this was. But let's go further here.... we have a government who gets paid to have plans for these kinds of things... there was no real plan or they just threw it out the book.

To be honest there is no plan for something that has NEVER happened before. You can have an outline, but no one had ANY clue how bad it could have been. They put this off for years. They didn't want to think about the possiblity of this happening.

You know what gets me... they say that reinforcing the levees would have costed too much, but now look... I think it woulda been worth it. Especially now.

[chrisnnavarre]

The situation really did not get out of hand until you had Thousands and Thousands of people in the Super Dome without airconditioning and without showers. No Food and No Water. No one could exit the Dome due to the condition of the city.

Many. Many more people came to the Dome AFTER the levy broke and God knows what condition they were in.

A simple AIR-DROP, does anyone know that word AIR-DROP? Could have stopped some of the misery at the Super Dome, and in other parts of the region. I'm sure the military in the Dome had radios.

A Hurricane is equal to many 10 Megaton Nuclear Bombs. It has the capability of destroying a region. Everyone knows that. So in a National Security Sense we had a slow moving Nuclear weapon capable of destroying a region and since it was in the Gulf of Mexico, We Knew it is going to hit somewhere and wipe out a region of our country.

If we switch the word Hurricane with Nuclear Weapon, would you expect the Command in Chief to remain on Vacation, and leave the governors of the region to face this threat with the Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama National Guard??? Feel any safer now?

There is blame from the bottom, there is blame in the middle, there is blame at the top. But when the buck stops passing, someone is going to learn that the words of Harry Truman were true. "The Buck Stops Here"

[oneness]

Sorry to dispute that but I was watching from Friday here in the Uk on wwltv and Nagin was absolutely vociferous in his encouragement of evacuation. He said that he was leaving himself and was only prevented from insisting on a mandatory evacuation due to legal means. At that stage, he said that the Superdome was only going to be available to people with special medical needs and that all people should call to see if they were eligible before they turned up there. When the mandatory announcement came, only then was it made known that everyone would be welcome at the dome. If it hadn't have been done that way, I think there would have been closer to 100,000 turn up at the dome.

He's constantly called for action, knowing that he was damned if he did call the evacuation (after Ivan) and damned if he didn't and the worst happened. He's been in the thick of it and if he hadn't been shouting and swearing during days 3 and 4, I really wonder how much of this disaster could have been covered up.

Whatever's happened, you can't say he hasn't been screaming for action, no matter how much this indicts himself. I'd trust him a millions times more than I would Blanco, Fema or Bush. He has nothing to lose at the moment as he is ruined regardless, so he may as well scream as loudly as he can so that every last possible person is saved. That's exactly what he has done in my opinion.

It is absolutely obvious that this man is going to be made the fall guy over all this. He's easy meat and he's too emotional to weasel his way out of that. I'd still rather trust him than anyone else though - from watching him right from 48hrs before Katrina hit, I've never doubted a word he has said.

Jo

Agreed Jo, I also watched WWL from Australia almost continuously from Friday night (here). I did this because it was clear to me at that point that NO was probably in serious trouble come Monday morning.

Nagin made it very plain during that period that it was time for residents to leave N.O., ASAP, plus the surrounding Parish’s were declaring mandatory evacs one after the other.

Local Mayors who didn’t order a mandatory evac (because they admitted they could not physically impose one) were repeatedly BEGGING people to leave immediately.

At 10 PM Saturday night on 4WWL Nagin said in a very ominous tone that the head of the NHC had told him point-blank that NO did not have a levee system which could withstand Katrina and that the storm was forecast to strike the immediate NO area as a Cat 4 of 5, and that this was not likely to change much before landfall. How much more plain could Nagin have made it?

Residents of the NO and region would have to be in contempt of all facts and warnings to not have ‘got it’ at that point (and many clearly were … and still are).

The other thing to remember with all this ‘quantitative’ theorising about busses, and the ‘grand evac plan’ ect., is that these plans never work according to plan.

People need to realise that many if not most of the people who drive those school busses for a living, had probably already gotten their families out of town, or were in the process of doing so at that point. They could not be expected to all drop their own plans when the storm was so close, so big, and moving so fast. Remember this, people were being told to move a couple of hundred miles left or right of the projected landfall area, simply because the storm was so huge in area.

The fact is that when you have a large Cat 4-5 storm coming at you it is effectively everyone for themselves, and those bus drivers were not about to sacrifice their families and their necessary survival resources in order to go back to NO and drive a bus.

Is there really any one in a position to demand those people drive busses in that situation? Could the police make them do it?

Sorry, nope, no one can force them to do it.

Another point is that if you don’t have the people to operate the fuel pumps at the bus depot, nor the mechanics, nor the people who locked the bus keys in the safe on Friday afternoon (or whatever) … if a couple of these key people were not available, for whatever reason, then the whole plan to use the busses for mass evacs goes out the window (which it clearly did).

And for those who further ‘quantitatively’ suggest that a second evac trip of busses would have been doable, at least theoretically, please keep in mind that it was taking about ten hours to go from NO to Baton Rouge via car. Add the quicker return trip plus the need to refuel, eat, toilet, load the bus … so when does the driver get to sleep? … at the wheel maybe?

By the time the storm got close and had dramatically increased it's forward speed Saturday it was already too late for more than a piece-meal bus evacuation to get rolling. Things went to pot too quickly.

However, I’ve got to agree though with the suggestion that the post-facto slow-response or resource ‘blockage’ is probably to be found with the Governor, either due to receiving abysmal advice or else just getting it wrong for various misguided reasons.

[Sean in New Orleans]

The City of NO did not fail the citizens. I'm local and I'd be the first to criticize. The absolute failure rests with FEMA, IMO. The call to them was immediate, yet response was not available for over 48 hours. This is the failure....

[mf_dolphin]

The City of NO did not fail the citizens. I'm local and I'd be the first to criticize. The absolute failure rests with FEMA, IMO. The call to them was immediate, yet response was not available for over 48 hours. This is the failure....

I couldn't disagree more Sean. The initial response after the event is the direct responsibility of the state. Some questions that need answering IMO:

1. Nagin referred a couple of times to "legal issues" that prevented him from calling for a mandatory evac sooner. What ever they are they need to be fixed now!

2. Where was the LA National Guard on day 1-2-3? There wasn't any sign of them in the city for sure. Keep in mind that these are state resources under direct control of the Govenor.

3. Why were only 900 National Guard troops initially requested by the State's Homeland Secutiry coordinator? Does anyone on this board think that was anywhere close to realistic?

4. Why does even a "Refuge of Last Resort" not have prepositioned food and water?

5. Why when the scope of this disaster was obvious to all did the Gov drag her feet on the federalization of the response?

Again folks, there is plenty of blame to go around but we all need to understand that the initial response is the responsibility of the state. That goes for all of us that live in a hurricane prone area. We'd all better ask our own state officials what their plans are.....

[MBismyPlayground]

The City of NO did not fail the citizens. I'm local and I'd be the first to criticize. The absolute failure rests with FEMA, IMO. The call to them was immediate, yet response was not available for over 48 hours. This is the failure....

I couldn't disagree more Sean. The initial response after the event is the direct responsibility of the state. Some questions that need answering IMO:

1. Nagin referred a couple of times to "legal issues" that prevented him from calling for a mandatory evac sooner. What ever they are they need to be fixed now!

2. Where was the LA National Guard on day 1-2-3? There wasn't any sign of them in the city for sure. Keep in mind that these are state resources under direct control of the Govenor.

3. Why were only 900 National Guard troops initially requested by the State's Homeland Secutiry coordinator? Does anyone on this board think that was anywhere close to realistic?

4. Why does even a "Refuge of Last Resort" not have prepositioned food and water?

5. Why when the scope of this disaster was obvious to all did the Gov drag her feet on the federalization of the response?

Again folks, there is plenty of blame to go around but we all need to understand that the initial response is the responsibility of the state. That goes for all of us that live in a hurricane prone area. We'd all better ask our own state officials what their plans are.....

MF, I totally agree with you.....
The local and state government are the first in line......they have to take responsibility. If we expect the federal goverment to intervene each time something happens, without the local and state resources being utilized first then we might as well forget our constitution and our rights.
If people would pay attention, Govenor Blanco said, (I think she still says or thinks this) that she had things in control with HER National Guard and Local Law Enforcement. ** not trying to be poitical here, more like a tinge sarcastic.... But she is also the one who said there was no shooting at the Superdome as well.
I am already in the process of checking into my local evacuation plans ect...... Just to reassure myself.