Moderate chance of severe wx for Texas gulf coast!?

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Moderate chance of severe wx for Texas gulf coast!?

#1 Postby wxman22 » Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:24 pm

Looks like the SPC has a 25% chance of severe wx for us in southeast Texas & the Lake Charles area. They also note that they might have to raise severe wx probabilities.

Image


DAY 2 CONVECTIVE OUTLOOK
NWS STORM PREDICTION CENTER NORMAN OK
1113 AM CST TUE JAN 31 2006

VALID 011200Z - 021200Z

THERE IS A SLGT RISK OF SVR TSTMS TO THE RIGHT OF A LINE FROM 50 SE
PSX 30 NW VCT 10 ENE AUS 40 NNW CLL 35 ENE LFK 30 SE ESF 40 ESE MCB
30 N GPT 15 ESE MOB 25 WSW PNS 40 S PNS.

GEN TSTMS ARE FCST TO THE RIGHT OF A LINE FROM 45 ESE CRP 20 SSW NIR
20 ESE HDO 60 N DRT 50 E FST 20 SSW BGS 40 W MWL 35 ESE GYI 35 WSW
HOT 35 NNE PBF 15 W UOX 20 ENE CBM 25 NNE 0A8 25 N MGM 30 ENE CEW 30
SW PFN.

GEN TSTMS ARE FCST TO THE RIGHT OF A LINE FROM 40 ENE BLI 15 SSE SEA
35 NNW SLE 35 WSW ONP.

...THERE IS A SLGT RISK OF SVR TSTMS ACROSS PARTS OF SERN TX AND THE
NCNTRL GULF COAST...

...SYNOPSIS...
MODELS HAVE COME INTO GOOD ALIGNMENT WITH REGARD TO COMPACT SHORT
WAVE DISTURBANCE CURRENTLY CROSSING THE LOWER CO RIVER VALLEY. THIS
IMPULSE IS FORECAST TO UNDERGO MODEST AMPLIFICATION WHILE DEVELOPING
SEWD ACROSS THE UPPER RIO GRANDE VALLEY THROUGH EARLY WEDNESDAY.
FROM THERE...THE MID LEVEL WIND MAX ROTATES THROUGH THE BASE OF THE
SHORT WAVE TROUGH AND STRONG DPVA SPREADS EWD ACROSS THE TX COASTAL
PLAIN DURING WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON. ENSEMBLE PROGS INDICATE SURFACE
CYCLOGENESIS WILL OCCUR ACROSS SERN TX IN RESPONSE TO THE UPPER
FORCING...AND THIS LOW WILL THEN TRACK FROM TX TO LA THROUGH EARLY
THURSDAY.

FAST FLOW REGIME WILL PERSIST ACROSS THE NRN STATES THIS PERIOD WITH
ANOTHER DISTURBANCE AND VERY COLD AIR ALOFT MOVING OVER THE COAST OF
THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST BY THE END OF THE FORECAST PERIOD.

...SERN TX TO NCNTRL GULF COAST AREA...
DESPITE RECENT COLD FRONTAL INTRUSION WELL INTO THE WRN GULF...LOW
60S F SURFACE DEWPOINTS WERE ALREADY REAPPEARING OVER SOUTH TX.
EXPECT LOW LEVEL MOISTURE RETURN WITH LOW TO MID 60S F SURFACE
DEWPOINTS TO BE WELL ESTABLISHED ACROSS MUCH OF THE TX COASTAL PLAIN
AHEAD OF STRONG MID LEVEL TROUGH CROSSING THE BIG BEND AREA BY
WEDNESDAY MORNING. INCREASING QG-FORCING FOR ASCENT...COUPLED WITH
DIURNAL DESTABILIZATION...SHOULD GRADUALLY OVERCOME INHIBITION AND
RESULT IN TSTM INITIATION BETWEEN HILL COUNTRY AND GULF COAST BY
EARLY AFTERNOON. STRONGER INSTABILITY...AND GREATER CHANCE FOR
SURFACE-BASED STORMS...WILL EXIST NEAR THE GULF COAST THROUGH THE
EVENING. HOWEVER...EVEN CONVECTION ROOTED ABOVE THE BOUNDARY LAYER
FARTHER INLAND MAY PRODUCE HAIL GIVEN INCREASINGLY STRONG DYNAMICS
ALOFT.

ENHANCED LIFT AND MODEST LOW LEVEL SHEAR NEAR DEVELOPING SURFACE
LOW...AND ALONG WARM/COASTAL FRONTS...WILL LIKELY SUPPORT GREATER
CONVECTIVE ORGANIZATION. STORM CLUSTERS AND SCATTERED SUPERCELLS MAY
EVOLVE INTO A SMALL MCS ACROSS NERN TX GULF COAST AND SPREAD EAST
INTO SRN LA THROUGH THE EVENING. AS MID LEVEL FLOW INCREASES TO
ABOUT 70KT AND MOVES ACROSS THE REGION OF GREATEST TSTM
POTENTIAL...EVOLUTION INTO A BOW ECHO WITH DAMAGING WINDS APPEARS
POSSIBLE. HOWEVER...DISCRETE STORMS MOVING ALONG THE COASTAL/WARM
FRONT COULD ALSO PRODUCE TORNADOES IF BOUNDARY LAYER CAN DESTABILIZE
SUFFICIENTLY. AS CONVECTIVE MODE AND AIR MASS QUALITY BECOME BETTER
DEFINED IN LATER GUIDANCE...AN INCREASE IN SEVERE WEATHER
PROBABILITIES MAY BE NEEDED OVER PARTS OF THE NWRN GULF COAST
REGION. STAY TUNED TO LATER OUTLOOKS.

..CARBIN.. 01/31/2006
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#2 Postby Tyler » Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:43 pm

Wow! All of the sudden, we have a chance of severe storms! The models backed off, and now they are more aggressive than ever. We'll have to watch carefully tommorow!
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#3 Postby Extremeweatherguy » Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:06 pm

yeah, looks very promising...much more than the last two potential svr. weather events. I would bet they raise it to moderate tonight or tomorrow. I think our best chances for svr. weather will come between 1pm and 7pm tomorrow. Unlike the last few systems, these storms will not be part of a larger area of precip, and will probably resemble summer pop-up storms more. I think that we will see numerous hail and wind reports tomorrow with may be a tornado or two near the coast. I think hail is the main threat though. Could get scary! :eek: Would not even be surprised to see some golf ball sized or larger hail in a few cells that get fired up.
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#4 Postby southerngale » Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:09 pm

That's kinda high, at least for here. Usually when we have a severe threat, it's in the 5-15% range.
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#5 Postby southerngale » Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:13 pm

Lake Charles NWS covers some of us in Southeast Texas. Here's a snippet from the AFD regarding tomorrow's storms. He notes SPC for guidance.

It looks like it could get really intense. :eek:



AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE LAKE CHARLES LA
228 PM CST TUE JAN 31 2006

.THUNDERSTORM OUTLOOK (WEDNESDAY EVENING)...
VERY LARGE KINEMATIC OMEGAS WILL MOVE ACROSS SOUTHEAST TEXAS AND
SOUTHWEST LOUISIANA DURING THE EVENING HOURS. THE PRIMARY COMPONENT
OF THESE RESULTANT KINEMATIC OMEGAS WILL BE QUASI-GEOSTROPHIC OMEGA,
DUE TO STRONG CYCLONIC (OR POSITIVE) VORTICITY ADVECTION AHEAD OF
THE DEEP AND TRAVELING CUT-OFF LOW. LAGRANGIAN OMEGAS (DUE TO LOW-
LEVEL WARM AIR ADVECTION) WILL BE A SECONDARY COMPONENT TO THESE
KINEMATIC OMEGAS; A RATHER ROBUST WARM CONVEYOR BELT.

A LIMITING FACTOR WAS THOUGHT TO BE BUOYANCY; NO INSOLATION.
HOWEVER, THE GLOBAL MODEL COMPUTES STRONG, VERTICAL DIFFERENTIAL
TEMPERATURE ADVECTION (INCREASING LOW-LEVEL WARM-AIR ADVECTION
CAPPED BY INCREASING MID-LEVEL COLD-AIR ADVECTION). ACCORDING TO
THIS MODEL, THE AIR COLUMN WILL BE DESTABILIZING.

ANOTHER FACTOR IS THE TYPE AND AMOUNT OF CLOUDS. SIGNIFICANT ICE AND
SUPER-COOLED LIQUID WATER CLOUDS WILL ACCOMPANY THIS STORM SYSTEM.
STRONG OMEGAS WITHIN GROWING ICE CLOUDS (CIRRUS LEVEL) WILL PRODUCE
ABUNDANT ICE HABITS, WHICH WILL FALL INTO THE MIDTROPOSPHERE
SUPER-COOLED WATER CLOUDS. SUBSEQUENT ACCRETION AND SPLINTERING WILL
RESULT IN MORE ICE PARTICLES, WHICH WILL FALL THROUGH THE LOW-LEVEL
WATER CLOUDS. ABUNDANT HAIL AND LIGHTNING WILL BE THE RESULT.

ALSO, LOCALIZED FLOODING RAINS WILL ACCOMPANY THESE ORGANIZED
STORMS
. BOTH THE BERGERON-FINDEISEN (SUPER-COOLED WATER CLOUDS) AND
COLLISION-COALESCENCE (WATER CLOUDS) PROCESSES WILL BE AT WORK.

THANKS TO GREG (SPC DAY TWO CONVECTIVE OUTLOOK) FOR GUIDANCE ON THE
THUNDERSTORMS OUTLOOK.
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#6 Postby Tyler » Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:15 pm

Thats a VERY nice discussion from Lake Charles. Very detailed.
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#7 Postby Extremeweatherguy » Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:23 pm

Could be one of the bigger severe outbreaks of the spring season. We are getting started early too. I still feel that (and lake charles AFD backs me up; as well as the SPC) that hail will be a big problem tomorrow. I have a feeling that long-track hail storms will set up in a few areas. The storms that dump the hail will also probably produce 50-70mph gusts as well. Overall, looks very interesting.
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#8 Postby jasons2k » Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:28 pm

Those are some very interesting duscussions coming out today. I agree it may indeed be shaping-up to be the first "big day" of the '06 storm season. I saw a similiar system like this a few years back in Dallas - a small but intense shortwave in February - not much wind or tornadoes, but a LOT of hail and lightning.
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#9 Postby Tyler » Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:32 pm

000
FXUS64 KHGX 312113
AFDHGX

AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE HOUSTON/GALVESTON TX
313 PM CST TUE JAN 31 2006

.DISCUSSION...
A QUIET DAY TODAY TO END THE MONTH. THINGS CHANGE TOMORROW AS AN UPPER
LOW NOW OVER ARIZONA WORKS ITS WAY INTO WEST TEXAS BY SUNRISE AND
APPROACHES SOUTHEAST TEXAS BY SUNSET. THIS STRONG DISTURBANCE WILL
SET THE STAGE FOR SHOWER/THUNDERSTORM DEVELOPMENT ACROSS SOUTHEAST
TEXAS MAINLY TOMORROW AFTERNOON AND EVENING. STRONG LIFT WITH THIS
SYSTEM IN COMBINATION WITH A DESTABILIZING SOUTHEAST TEXAS AIRMASS
WILL LEAD TO THE POTENTIAL FOR SOME SEVERE THUNDERSTORM FORMATION
TOO. THE GREATEST SEVERE WEATHER THREAT WILL BE STRONG DAMAGING
WINDS AND LARGE HAIL. EXPECT RAINFALL TOTALS WITH THIS EVENT TO
AVERAGE 1/2 TO 1 INCH WITH HIGHER VALUES POSSIBLE (1 TO 2 INCHES)
IN OUR EAST AND SOUTHEAST COUNTIES WHERE DEEPER MOISTURE LEVELS WILL
RESIDE. THE AREA CLEARS OUT TOMORROW NIGHT AS THE SYSTEM MOVES OFF
TO OUR EAST. THINK WE WILL STAY DRY (LIMITED MOISTURE AVAILABILITY)
WITH THURSDAY NIGHT`S/FRIDAY MORNING`S COLD FRONTAL PASSAGE. SURFACE
HIGH PRESSURE AND A NORTHWEST FLOW ALOFT KEEPS US DRY OVER THE
WEEKEND. ANOTHER COLD FRONT NEXT MONDAY MIGHT ALSO ENDS UP MOVING
ACROSS A MOISTURE STARVED AIRMASS RESULTING IN LIMITED OR NO
RAINFALL FOR THE AREA.

JANUARY 2006 WILL GO DOWN AS THE...
.10TH WARMEST JANUARY ON RECORD AT IAH
.8TH WARMEST AND 7TH DRIEST ON RECORD AT GLS
.8TH WARMEST ON RECORD AT CLL

Wednesday...Mostly cloudy with patchy fog early in the morning. A chance of showers and thunderstorms in the morning...Then showers and thunderstorms likely in the afternoon. Some thunderstorms May be severe in the afternoon. Highs in the lower 70s. Southeast winds 10 to 15 mph. Chance of rain 30 percent in the morning increasing to 60 percent in the afternoon.

Wednesday Night...Mostly cloudy with showers and thunderstorms likely in the evening...Then partly cloudy after midnight. Some thunderstorms May be severe in the evening. Lows in the lower 50s. Southwest winds 10 to 15 mph. Chance of rain 60 percent in the evening.
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#10 Postby mike815 » Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:53 pm

yeah doesnt supprise me going to be a strong system i think even a weak low in the gulf bad news for fl as well
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#11 Postby wxmann_91 » Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:50 pm

Doesn't surprise me. The models have been consistent with this system. As I stated in another thread, this position of this system reminds me of Nov. 23, 2004, and that the key is moisture. If the boundary layer moistens up more than expected - watch out. Major tornado outbreak. Even if moisture is not advected as quickly, some hailstorms and maybe an isolated tornado are still likely.
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#12 Postby WaitingForSiren » Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:09 pm

Alright alright, I think everyone needs to calm down. To be honest, I dont really find this storm too impressive and I am not calling for a outbreak by any means tomorrow. Like i said in a different thread, the storm is weak and since the moisture will be very close to the gulf itself, chances are the big threats will just be heavy rain and marginal hail. I could see a few supercells across southeast texas with a tornado or two, but to say it might be like Nov. 23rd is ridiculous. That was a rapidly deepening cyclone going newgative tilt, this is just a positive tild compact wave meandering along the gulf coast; not very impressive.

And I know a lot about the weather, but I can bet that only the people who are actually trained meteorologists can read that in depth discussion posted above. Very large kinomatic omegas? Quasi-geographic omegas? HUH!?
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#13 Postby southerngale » Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:25 pm

WaitingForSiren wrote:Alright alright, I think everyone needs to calm down.

I don't need to calm down. I'm fine, thanks.
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#14 Postby wxmann_91 » Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:28 pm

WaitingForSiren wrote:Alright alright, I think everyone needs to calm down. To be honest, I dont really find this storm too impressive and I am not calling for a outbreak by any means tomorrow. Like i said in a different thread, the storm is weak and since the moisture will be very close to the gulf itself, chances are the big threats will just be heavy rain and marginal hail. I could see a few supercells across southeast texas with a tornado or two, but to say it might be like Nov. 23rd is ridiculous. That was a rapidly deepening cyclone going newgative tilt, this is just a positive tild compact wave meandering along the gulf coast; not very impressive.

And I know a lot about the weather, but I can bet that only the people who are actually trained meteorologists can read that in depth discussion posted above. Very large kinomatic omegas? Quasi-geographic omegas? HUH!?


Yeah I agree about that AFD. I have no idea what it says.

But I do disagree with the first paragraph. I never said it was like Nov. 23, only that the position was similar. What I said about the major tornado outbreak, well that is a given if the instability is given in almost all winter svr situations.

Nov. 23, 2004:

Image


Feb. 1, 2006:

Image

After that it changes, the Nov. 23 system moves over the TX and OK area while this system will stay along the Gulf Coast. This will limit areal coverage of the storms. However, due to the strong dynamics ahead of this system, any [limited] insolation and pockets of higher instability could be areas where supercells could form.
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#15 Postby WaitingForSiren » Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:55 pm

I see where youre coming from. I still think 11/23 was a much more impressive storm and if you are going to compare this one to that storm, theres like 30 other storms which would make a valid comparison as well. Thats like comparing 5/30/04 to the super outbreak, theres similarites but overall its MUCH different. But again, I see where youre coming from. I am not saying there wont be any severe weather, but i just dont think itll be moderate risk material (well, considering how generous the SPC has been lately, then again maybe it will be a mdt risk day). We'll see what happens.
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#16 Postby wxmann_91 » Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:29 pm

WaitingForSiren wrote:I see where youre coming from. I still think 11/23 was a much more impressive storm and if you are going to compare this one to that storm, theres like 30 other storms which would make a valid comparison as well. Thats like comparing 5/30/04 to the super outbreak, theres similarites but overall its MUCH different. But again, I see where youre coming from. I am not saying there wont be any severe weather, but i just dont think itll be moderate risk material (well, considering how generous the SPC has been lately, then again maybe it will be a mdt risk day). We'll see what happens.


Not to get too off topic but the 5/30/04 synoptic setup was very similar to the Super Outbreak. Indeed, three lines (groups) of tornadic supercells did develop, and had the derecho not materialized so quickly, 148 tornadoes wouldn't have been out of the realm of possibility.

Here is the NAM Fcst Sounding for KIAH (Intercontinental Airport in Houston):

Image
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#17 Postby mike815 » Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:51 pm

hmmmm... thanks
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#18 Postby WaitingForSiren » Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:54 pm

The flow was much different during the super outbreak though. That one had the main low move from Kansas to Iowa with dry air surging northeastward. The 5/30/04 event had problems because the previous day a tornado outbreak occured, and there wasnt much of a air mass turnover. Super outbreak was a classic surge of 60s dewpoints, but the areas affected by the may 30 2004 event had humid air for days before it hit. So the instability wasnt that great and thats why the event didnt materialize as a major tornado outbreak, although 100 reports came in which is a lot...most of the tornadoes were weak. And i dont think even if it didnt become a drecho that a major outbreak of intense tornadoes would have happened, because look at the discrete supercells which formed across Missouri and arkansas which hardly produced ANY tornadoes.
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#19 Postby wxmann_91 » Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:59 pm

WaitingForSiren wrote:The flow was much different during the super outbreak though. That one had the main low move from Kansas to Iowa with dry air surging northeastward. The 5/30/04 event had problems because the previous day a tornado outbreak occured, and there wasnt much of a air mass turnover. Super outbreak was a classic surge of 60s dewpoints, but the areas affected by the may 30 2004 event had humid air for days before it hit. So the instability wasnt that great and thats why the event didnt materialize as a major tornado outbreak, although 100 reports came in which is a lot...most of the tornadoes were weak. And i dont think even if it didnt become a drecho that a major outbreak of intense tornadoes would have happened, because look at the discrete supercells which formed across Missouri and arkansas which hardly produced ANY tornadoes.


The supercells that formed across MO and AR did produce, but were the ones that congealed into that derecho. The sups ahead of the line did produce, and some were long-tracked, cyclic, and very prolific. However, you could be right in that air mass turnover thing, plus the fact the May 30 outbreak happened in late May instead of early May or April probably limited the potential dynamic energy a bit.

Fcst sounding (NAM) from Sugar Land, TX, for those interested. As one can see, thermodynamics are not too shabby:

Image
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#20 Postby mike815 » Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:25 pm

nope not too bad
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