Dynomat on front page of todays newspaper

This is the general tropical discussion area. Anyone can take their shot at predicting a storms path.

Moderator: S2k Moderators

Forum rules

The posts in this forum are NOT official forecasts and should not be used as such. They are just the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. They are NOT endorsed by any professional institution or STORM2K. For official information, please refer to products from the National Hurricane Center and National Weather Service.

Help Support Storm2K
Message
Author
spinfan4eva
Category 1
Category 1
Posts: 295
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:27 am
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Contact:

Dynomat on front page of todays newspaper

#1 Postby spinfan4eva » Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:46 am

He's still at it :roll:

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/s ... 3149.shtml

Code: Select all

Hurricanes can't be stopped, they say -- but he wants to try


A Florida entrepreneur wants to drop his absorbent gel into a building storm.


By DANA TREEN, The Times-Union


Taking the punch out of a rainstorm is a far cry from whipping a hurricane, say skeptics of a South Florida man who has caused clouds to disappear and thinks he can tame a cyclone.

 
But Peter Cordani is not discouraged by naysayers. Instead, newspaper stories with disparaging quotes hang like challenges in the foyer of his Jupiter business where he touts the potential of a powder to absorb water from a hurricane.

In one story, famed hurricane expert Bob Sheets declares it's nearly impossible to dissipate a hurricane while another chides that Cordani's efforts to do just that do not show much promise.

But if the 44-year-old South Florida entrepreneur is right, if it is possible to weaken a hurricane enough to make it fall as much as one category, the result could be millions of dollars or more in damage prevented.

As he tries to raise $30 million for the project that will take four years to research, Cordani says all he wants is the chance to be proven wrong.

That chance could be coming. A lot of attention has funneled his way in the seven months since the devastation of Hurricane Katrina, and experts are predicting 17 named storms in 2006.

Cordani, who started in business with an absorbent mat for garage floors, believes a polymer powder his company developed can tear down the powerful forces of a hurricane, saving the populated coasts of the United States and other places from death and destruction.

Some say hugely unmanageable amounts of the powder, which they liken to the stuff of disposable diapers, would have to be used.

Cordani thinks that once dumped into the top of a hurricane's vortex, the powder would effectively inhale the storm's moisture before forming a glop that drops harmlessly into the sea. From there, it would be degraded by saltwater and burned off by the sun.

A sugary-looking powder with the microscopic profile of a corn flake, Dyn-O-Gel is capable of absorbing up 1,000 times its weight in water, turning it into a clear, squishy gelatin. It would theoretically tear a wedge from the edge of the hurricane to the core of the storm's column, forcing the wind to turn in on itself and collapse the spiral.

Cordani has used the powder successfully in clouds off Jupiter and Stuart but not tried it in a hurricane.

Peter Ray, a meteorology professor at Florida State University who wants to test the theory, said the gel formed has the potential to clog the hurricane's rotation and sap wind energy.

"A big glob of water has more drag," Ray said. "[It] takes energy out of the hurricane to push it around. The energy has to do more work on it to get it to move."

Ray has been an unpaid consultant on Cordani's side and would lead a research team of 50 experts if the project finds backing, he said.

"There is no shortage of ideas," Ray said. "This is in the category of worth investigating."

The nation is hungry for ideas, prompting things such as Texas Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison's bill for $90 million in research money to see if weather modification is even feasible. The bill is awaiting a hearing on the Senate floor.

It is not surprising that as spring heads toward the June 1 beginning of another hurricane season, Cordani's is only one of several hurricane-buster plans rattling about.

It's been getting attention, from mention in a Popular Science magazine feature about stopping storms to an Australian TV show filmed in Jupiter last month.

Competing proposals include one that would drag barges full of jet turbines into the storm to blow upward, and another would slick the ocean with liquid to rob the hurricane of heat.

The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration is regularly questioned about firing a nuclear weapon into a storm's core.

None of the ideas, including Cordani's, have gained much traction, in part because of the daunting task they propose. For example, NOAA estimates the heat energy released around the eye of 1992's Hurricane Andrew was 5,000 times the output generated by the Turkey Point nuclear power plant that was in its path.

"It's all pie in the sky," said Hugh Willoughby, a research professor at the International Hurricane Research Center at Florida International University.

Willoughby once participated in a hurricane seeding project that banked on the same theories Cordani espouses. Seeding involves adding materials to the atmosphere that induce moisture to become larger water drops.

Between 1962 and 1983, Project Stormfury used silver iodide to seed the outer wall of hurricanes and diffuse the storm.

Initial results were positive, but later it was determined hurricanes naturally have drops and surges in power.

There was worry, too, about where an altered storm would go and the political fallout that could come if areas hit would have been spared in a natural storm path.

Cordani once had the support of Willoughby, who tested the powder in his own backyard using a spray of hose water, then scrutinized it with calculations. Over time Willoughby came to believe the amount of powder needed would be immense.

"All the military heavy-lift aircraft in the world would not be enough," he said, reflecting a similar skepticism voiced by NOAA on its Web site.

Willoughby also began to think the effect of the powder would increase the strength of the storm.

"We weren't sure if it was going to make the storm stronger or weaker," he said. "The ball is kind of in their court. I'm not saying they are crazy. I'm just saying convince me."

Cordani said he is looking for public or private funding.

"We want to know because no one knows these answers," he said. "Science will have to prove this out."

He points to successes.

In August 2000, a plane spread a load of Dyn-O-Gel across a cloud off Jupiter Inlet.

"It cut the cloud in half right in front of us," Cordani said. The test was also observed by TV and newspaper reporters.

The next summer, the powder took down a building thundercloud, wiping it from radar at Palm Beach International Airport in West Palm Beach. But experts note hurricanes are huge engines of heat, wind and moisture far different than offshore thunderstorms.

Cordani said he does not expect to stop a storm like Katrina but believes slowing one down or cutting the strength from a Category 5 storm to a 4 or 3 would save billions of dollars and save lives.

"Why not take a crack at it now?"
0 likes   

User avatar
Extremeweatherguy
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 11095
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:13 pm
Location: Florida

#2 Postby Extremeweatherguy » Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:51 am

This guy needs to give up already..
0 likes   

MiamiensisWx

#3 Postby MiamiensisWx » Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:57 am

He won't get permission from the NHC to do it, will he?
0 likes   

txwatcher91
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 1498
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:29 pm

#4 Postby txwatcher91 » Sun Apr 02, 2006 1:21 pm

What if the storm strenthend instead of weakening? Then he would be responsible for a higher loss of life and higher damage costs.
0 likes   

User avatar
cheezyWXguy
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 6132
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Dallas, TX

#5 Postby cheezyWXguy » Sun Apr 02, 2006 1:30 pm

waste of time
0 likes   

User avatar
webke
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 290
Age: 70
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 12:39 pm
Location: North Myrtle Beach SC

#6 Postby webke » Sun Apr 02, 2006 1:47 pm

People that want to change the course of Mother Nature in my opinion are wasting their time. Mother nature has time and again shown us that man is only a small part of the the big picture, and try as he may she will always end up taking control.
0 likes   

User avatar
James
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 1531
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:29 am
Location: Gloucestershire, England
Contact:

#7 Postby James » Sun Apr 02, 2006 1:49 pm

I find it hard to believe that the glop will be harmless once it all lands in a big layer on the ocean. It could have untold consequences on the environment.
0 likes   

HurricaneHunter914
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 4439
Age: 31
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:36 pm
Location: College Station, TX

#8 Postby HurricaneHunter914 » Sun Apr 02, 2006 1:53 pm

I agree 100%, doesn't he understand that hurricanes aren't just destructive they can also help the enviorment, bringing rain to highly dry areas(Florida)and bringing communities together to help each other. Hurricanes bring death because some people are stupid enough to stay.
0 likes   

User avatar
HURAKAN
Professional-Met
Professional-Met
Posts: 46086
Age: 38
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 4:34 pm
Location: Key West, FL
Contact:

#9 Postby HURAKAN » Sun Apr 02, 2006 1:55 pm

James wrote:I find it hard to believe that the glop will be harmless once it all lands in a big layer on the ocean. It could have untold consequences on the environment.


Agree 100%. People have to stop and think if the secondary affects could be worse than the possible disaster itself.
0 likes   

User avatar
hurricanetrack
HurricaneTrack.com
HurricaneTrack.com
Posts: 1781
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 10:46 pm
Location: Wilmington, NC
Contact:

#10 Postby hurricanetrack » Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:17 pm

Not to worry. There are simply not enough aircraft to pull it off and there never will be.

Other ideas that would work IF we had the capability:

1. create our own wind shear with fans that would blow off the tops of the core thunderstorms

2. drag Texas sized ice bergs that are some 2000 feet thick in to the path of hurricanes heading towards shore

3. pump cooler water up from below to weaken the hurricane through lower water temps.

All of these methods simulate some malfunction that often occurs in Nature. This is why not every hurricane is a Katrina or Andrew. However, none of these ideas will work simply because there is not enough technology to make them work.

My suggestion is and always has been: adapt. Build better, smarter and educate more people. You gotta roll with the punches- even when they have names like Katrina or Rita or Camille or Labor Day 1935, etc.

I appreciate Cordani's persistence, but the math suggests it cannot be done.
0 likes   

User avatar
wxwatcher91
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 1606
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:43 pm
Location: Keene, NH
Contact:

#11 Postby wxwatcher91 » Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:32 pm

txwatcher91 wrote:What if the storm strenthend instead of weakening? Then he would be responsible for a higher loss of life and higher damage costs.


Well considering that it probably wont do anything (except maybe harm the oceanic environment), the storm would either weaken or strengthen by just coincidence.
0 likes   

Matt-hurricanewatcher

#12 Postby Matt-hurricanewatcher » Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:35 pm

This must be the paper putting in a late Aprils fools joke. :roll:
0 likes   

Brent
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 38117
Age: 37
Joined: Sun May 16, 2004 10:30 pm
Location: Tulsa Oklahoma
Contact:

#13 Postby Brent » Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:43 pm

Don't mess with Mother Nature.

:wink:
0 likes   
#neversummer

User avatar
Audrey2Katrina
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 4252
Age: 76
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 10:39 pm
Location: Metaire, La.

#14 Postby Audrey2Katrina » Sun Apr 02, 2006 3:28 pm

They did mention something about this "gel" in the Discovery Channel specials recently on hurricanes... added that it was something the government had been toying with for a while; but also added that the size and energy of a hurricane is so massive that such an enterprise would seem to be utterly futile and have minimum if any impact at all on these monsters. The environmental impact is another consideration--don't know if they've looked into these ramifications or have the concept that it wouldn't be damaging. I also seem to remember the idea that they tried "seeding" to affect these storms around the time of Betsy, and whether rumor/urban legend or classified truth, the results were horrendous, as she became the first Billion dollar storm. I think until we get a LOT further along in technology and understanding what our limitations actually are, the best policy is exactly what Brent stated: Don't mess with Mother Nature.

A2K
0 likes   
Flossy 56 Audrey 57 Hilda 64* Betsy 65* Camille 69* Edith 71 Carmen 74 Bob 79 Danny 85 Elena 85 Juan 85 Florence 88 Andrew 92*, Opal 95, Danny 97, Georges 98*, Isidore 02, Lili 02, Ivan 04, Cindy 05*, Dennis 05, Katrina 05*, Gustav 08*, Isaac 12*, Nate 17, Barry 19, Cristobal 20, Marco, 20, Sally, 20, Zeta 20*, Claudette 21 IDA* 21 Francine *24

CHRISTY

#15 Postby CHRISTY » Sun Apr 02, 2006 4:25 pm

this will never work no matter what u try!a hurricane is one of the most powerful forces on earth and humans will never be able to control its movements.
0 likes   

User avatar
cheezyWXguy
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 6132
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Dallas, TX

#16 Postby cheezyWXguy » Sun Apr 02, 2006 5:02 pm

even if its a very slim chance that someday we would be able to weaken these monsters, we need to learn more about them first...we still know very little about these storms and how they form, even if we know enuf realize the kind of damage they can potentially produce
0 likes   

User avatar
coriolis
Retired Staff
Retired Staff
Posts: 8314
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2003 10:58 pm
Location: Muncy, PA

#17 Postby coriolis » Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:41 pm

I've dealt with enough used diapers to know that the gel stuff isn't going to go away that quickly.
0 likes   
This space for rent.

User avatar
Audrey2Katrina
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 4252
Age: 76
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 10:39 pm
Location: Metaire, La.

#18 Postby Audrey2Katrina » Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:51 pm

coriolis wrote:I've dealt with enough used diapers to know that the gel stuff isn't going to go away that quickly.


ROFL.... so much for THAT concept! Very visual :lol:

A2K
0 likes   
Flossy 56 Audrey 57 Hilda 64* Betsy 65* Camille 69* Edith 71 Carmen 74 Bob 79 Danny 85 Elena 85 Juan 85 Florence 88 Andrew 92*, Opal 95, Danny 97, Georges 98*, Isidore 02, Lili 02, Ivan 04, Cindy 05*, Dennis 05, Katrina 05*, Gustav 08*, Isaac 12*, Nate 17, Barry 19, Cristobal 20, Marco, 20, Sally, 20, Zeta 20*, Claudette 21 IDA* 21 Francine *24

HurricaneHunter914
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 4439
Age: 31
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:36 pm
Location: College Station, TX

#19 Postby HurricaneHunter914 » Sun Apr 02, 2006 8:05 pm

Don't mess with Mother Nature.


Amen.
0 likes   

User avatar
hurricanetrack
HurricaneTrack.com
HurricaneTrack.com
Posts: 1781
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 10:46 pm
Location: Wilmington, NC
Contact:

#20 Postby hurricanetrack » Sun Apr 02, 2006 8:10 pm

coriolis wrote:I've dealt with enough used diapers to know that the gel stuff isn't going to go away that quickly.


ME TOO! You are correct! Millions of diapers since 1997.....and 4 kids later.....whoa....the gel is something else.
0 likes   


Return to “Talkin' Tropics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 63 guests