Camille vs Katrina and cat-5 issues

[hurricanetrack]

Ok- for those of you who have chimed in on the "Was Camille a cat-5 at landfall" thread and saw where I had wondered why the water never made it over the tracks in Waveland during Camille? Well I think I now have my answer once and for all.

Looking at the track data and seeing it plotted on a close up map of Mississippi- I can clearly see that Camille made landfall EAST of Waveland. Therefore areas like Pass Christian, Long Beach and Gulfport were well within the RFQ. I also noted that Camille never really made landfall in Louisiana like Katrina did. Anyhow- with Katrina's size and the fact that it made landfall west of Waveland, I now completely understand why Camille did not flood as much in Hancock county as I would have thought. Duh.

Until proven otherwise, I have no reason to believe that Camille was nothing other than a category five hurricane at landfall in Mississippi.

[gatorcane]

here we go, I predict about 200 replies and about 2000 views on this post...not to mention some fierce arguments.....

I do recall a similar post a while back....

[Opal storm]

We already have a thread on this.

[wxman57]

One big factor in the final storm surge equation is what's called the "setup tide". A setup tide is a pre-storm increase in coastal tides due to a large fetch of onshore winds and large waves. Often, this setup tide is in place a day or longer before the center reaches the coast. The setup tide can be as high as 6-8 feet, perhaps even higher, depending upon the pre-storm wind direction along the coast.

Camille approached the MS coast from the southeast. As such, winds in advance of Camille were out of the northeast. This prevented any setup tide from reaching the MS coast ahead of Camille's center. In fact, tides were 3-5 feet below normal due to strong offshore winds ahead of Camille's center.

Now consider Katrina, a hurricane with a much larger 74+ mph wind field that came in from the south rather than the southeast. Katrina's pre-landfall winds were from the ESE-SE. Waves of 50-80 feet moved into the LA Delta and MS Coast ahead of Katrina's arrival. This resulted in a setup tide of 6-8 feet across southeast Louisiana and the western MS coast, long before Katrina's center moved ashore.

So Katrina had maybe a 7-10 foot "head start" on Camille with its large setup tide prior to the arrival of the storm surge.

[Javlin]

WX57 you say it so well any moron even like me can grasp it.THKS.

[hurricanetrack]

That's what this board is all about- learning from others. You could see that set up tide very well before Katrina made landfall. It scared me enough to stay away from Waveland with colleague Mike Watkins- and thus probably saving our lives.

[Jim Cantore]

That's what this board is all about- learning from others. You could see that set up tide very well before Katrina made landfall. It scared me enough to stay away from Waveland with colleague Mike Watkins- and thus probably saving our lives.

Waveland was G-O-N-E! Took the brunt of a 28 foot surge.

[ROCK]

Learn something new every night...thanks WX57

[MGC]

I left for Katrina less than 24 hours before landfall. I drove east on HWY-90 along the coast. As I recall, tides had not risen to any great extent within 22 hours of landfall. Doubt there was a "setup" tide for Katrina. Camille technically made landfall in Louisiana on uninhabited islands south of Mississippi.....MGC

[Law Dispatch]

Pass Christian is gone too. It's terrible.

[Jim Cantore]

As for the intensity of Camille debate, this new information gives me a new estimate

175mph

[Extremeweatherguy]

As for the intensity of Camille debate, this new information gives me a new estimate

175mph

officially though Camille's winds were 160mph with gusts to 190mph. so are you saying that the sustained winds were stronger than what the NHC has said, or that the gusts were weaker?

[Jim Cantore]

160? I thought sustained was 190?

In that case due to this, I tend to stick close to what the NHC says. I go with about 165 with the new info I just read. But I think it MAY have be as high as 175

Biloxi I believe had a gust to 224mph.

and in the gulf maybe 185 at it's peak

[storms in NC]

If I made ask How high was the tide surge for Katrina? I never heard. I just know there was nothing left of St bernard

[Jim Cantore]

Highest I heard was 28 feet in the Bay Saint Louis area, however I wouldn't be suprised to hear of 30 feet a little east of the Mouth of the Pearl River.

[Pearl River]

Slidell had 10-15 ft of water.

[Ixolib]

With Camille, the winds at my home in Biloxi were extreme - and I mean "scarey" extreme. However, I took NO STORM SURGE in my home with Camille. None, nada.

With Karina, the winds at my home in Biloxi (same one) were NOT extreme at all. However, I took 3 feet of storm surge with Katrina (22.5 feet at my address there).

If I had to make a choice, I'd MUCH rather deal with the wind of a hurricane than with the surge of a hurricane. The latter far exceeds the first in terms of long-term recovery and major $$$$$.

Bottom line - Camille's winds put Katrina's winds to shame.....

[f5]

With Camille, the winds at my home in Biloxi were extreme - and I mean "scarey" extreme. However, I took NO STORM SURGE in my home with Camille. None, nada.

With Karina, the winds at my home in Biloxi (same one) were NOT extreme at all. However, I took 3 feet of storm surge with Katrina (22.5 feet at my address there).

If I had to make a choice, I'd MUCH rather deal with the wind of a hurricane than with the surge of a hurricane. The latter far exceeds the first in terms of long-term recovery and major $$$$$.

Bottom line - Camille's winds put Katrina's winds to shame.....

Bottom line-Katrina's surge put Camille's surge to shame

[m_ru]

With Camille, the winds at my home in Biloxi were extreme - and I mean "scarey" extreme. However, I took NO STORM SURGE in my home with Camille. None, nada.

With Karina, the winds at my home in Biloxi (same one) were NOT extreme at all. However, I took 3 feet of storm surge with Katrina (22.5 feet at my address there).

If I had to make a choice, I'd MUCH rather deal with the wind of a hurricane than with the surge of a hurricane. The latter far exceeds the first in terms of long-term recovery and major $$$$$.

Bottom line - Camille's winds put Katrina's winds to shame.....

Bottom line-Katrina's surge put Camille's surge to shame

awwwww...that means they're tied. How cute! jk