Texas Winter 2012-2013

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Ntxw
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Re:

#1821 Postby Ntxw » Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:51 pm

Rgv20 wrote:Hey Ntxw have you seen the latest forecast on the Stratosphere Temperatures......Look at that crazy Stratospheric Warming forecast from the GFS!


Funny I just had a conversation with Portastorm about it :wink:! Major mid winter warming event top down it shows in the stratosphere. Effectively it will translate more towards late January and February though, as there will be a quiet period middle of the month while the warming takes time. I was going to wait and post it for the January outlook but you beat me to the punch giving hints :P
Last edited by Ntxw on Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Re:

#1822 Postby Cyclenall » Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:53 pm

weatherdude1108 wrote:You know those contrails in the sky that are left by airplanes as they fly at high altitudes? Went out to let dog outside. Looked up at the full moon, and noticed a set of two contrails that were paralleling each other. I followed those and saw another set of two contrails crisscrossing the original set of two contrails, not quite at 90 degrees. My camera picked up the moon, but could not pick up the contrails. Were they four separate planes flying in pairs? Atmospheric testing? Very PECULIAR(??). Didn't know if anyone on this board has any insight into contrailing(?).

Did you see how long those streaks lasted in the sky for? I think we all are thinking the same thing, that's not contrails but something else that has the same suffix but different prefix :lol: .

wxman57 wrote:My thoughts? I've had enough winter now. Dreaming of 90F warmth and long summer bike rides.

However, I don't expect any 90F temps over the next few weeks. Next week's storm system has a good chance of dropping more snow on north Texas around next Wednesday. However, the 12z GFS has a much weaker trof axis than earlier runs. I suspect it is in error. The southern stream should remain active for the next few weeks, bringing additional bouts of snow to TX (north TX, not SE TX). Wouldn't be surprised to see snow as far south as Waco in the next few weeks. Don't see any indication of extreme cold across TX (no, I don't mean below 80, I mean low 20s or colder in Houston, for example). It'll be just cold enough to be miserable to me without the joy of any near-80F days.

As usual, I agree with your thoughts on this pattern during winter. I'm done with this cold, it reminds me of how much more I enjoy warm and hot weather...freedom. I enjoy snowstorms and snow as much as the next person, but when it ends and there isn't anything in the pipeline that is interesting, its horrible. I usually do not follow the weather at all during these periods, not even outside my region. You have very short days, non-stop overcast skies which no one else here knows what that's like for over 3 weeks straight without break (its very bad), a dry cold airmass that causes no entertainment value and dries out your skin, and white light frequencies (sun reflecting off of snow cover when it is sunny) that emits negative brain patterns that causes Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD) in quite a number of people. Texas doesn't have as many of these problems as we do in the Great Lakes area but wxman57 would be even more miserable here...a lot more!

Comanche wrote:Not sure if you guys have seen this or not. I feel this is as good an explanation of the GFS vs. Euro as you will get...

http://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2012/12/r ... rvice.html

"...The National Weather Service efforts in global and national prediction are being undermined by lack of computer power. This is not just my opinion--ask leaders inside the weather service, National Academy committees, or knowledgeable folks in the field and they will tell you the same thing. Why are ECMWF's forecasts so much better than the NWS's? A big part of it is that ECMWF has the computer power to run their high-resolution global forecast at 16 km resolution, while ours is 25 km, their ensemble forecasting system has twice the resolution, and they can use an advanced data assimilation approach (4DVAR) that requires a lot of computer resources.

Consider the difference in the computer resources available to ECMWF versus the National Weather Service's Environmental Modeling Center (EMC), and keep in mind that EMC has a much wider range of responsibility (includes high resolution national and regional forecasting) than ECMWF (which does only global forecasting).

ECMWF has two machines, each with 24546 cores and a computational ability of .75 petaflops (thousand trillion floating point operations per second). These machines are #37 and 38 on the worldwide list of top 500 computers. The National Weather Service has two computers that are not even on the top 500 list. Each has 4992 processors and an ability to do .07 petaflops. You see the problem? The NWS has less than 10% of the computer power as ECMWF and has many more responsibilities..."

Wow, great information here and some questions answered, this explains why Euro is King and the GFS is not...major computing power difference! I had no idea that gap was that huge...I'm surprised the GFS is even comparable with that. If its lack of CPU power, why isn't this being addressed? Unbelievable. If it were up to me I'd put these models on the most powerful super computers on earth and see how it improves. I'm sure it would be a decreasing rate of return for set number of cores added but its weather and any improvement is big.

And that leads me to another quandary, how can the NWS's weather super computer(s) not even break the top 500 mark? That's ridiculous. I would have never believed that and still don't. Here's why: when you read what the most powerful computers or fastest do in general I often read tasks such as nuclear stockpile degradation simulations, missile projection systems, protein folding, DNA decoding, global warming simulations, and weather. We're talking about tasks that are done on the most powerful like top 10, not #37 or below #500!!!!!! :double: :double:
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Re: Texas Winter 2012-2013

#1823 Postby GRAYSONCO.WX » Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:16 pm

Winter Weather Advisory for parts of north Texas per Forth Worth NWS!

EDIT:

URGENT - WINTER WEATHER MESSAGE
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE FORT WORTH TX
904 PM CST THU DEC 27 2012

TXZ091>093-100>102-115-116-129-281115-
/O.NEW.KFWD.WW.Y.0003.121228T1000Z-121228T1800Z/
MONTAGUE-COOKE-GRAYSON-YOUNG-JACK-WISE-STEPHENS-PALO PINTO-
EASTLAND-
INCLUDING THE CITIES OF...BOWIE...NOCONA...GAINESVILLE...
SHERMAN...DENISON...GRAHAM...OLNEY...JACKSBORO...DECATUR...
BRIDGEPORT...BRECKENRIDGE...MINERAL WELLS...CISCO...EASTLAND...
RANGER...GORMAN
904 PM CST THU DEC 27 2012

...WINTER WEATHER ADVISORY IN EFFECT FROM 4 AM TO NOON CST
FRIDAY...

THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN FORT WORTH HAS ISSUED A WINTER
WEATHER ADVISORY FOR FREEZING DRIZZLE...WHICH IS IN EFFECT FROM 4
AM TO NOON CST FRIDAY.

* TIMING...DRIZZLE IS EXPECTED TO BEGIN OVER THE ADVISORY AREA
WITH ABOVE FREEZING TEMPERATURES AFTER MIDNIGHT. AFTER 4 AM A
COLD FRONT IS EXPECTED TO MOVE INTO THE ADVISORY AREA...BRINGING
SURFACE TEMPERATURES BELOW FREEZING. DRIZZLE IS EXPECTED TO
CONTINUE WHILE TEMPERATURES SLOWLY DROP THROUGH EARLY FRIDAY
MORNING RESULTING IN FREEZING DRIZZLE. FREEZING DRIZZLE IS
EXPECTED TO DIMINISH BY LATE FRIDAY MORNING.

* MAIN IMPACT...FREEZING DRIZZLE WILL LEAVE A LIGHT GLAZE OF
ICE...PRIMARILY ON ELEVATED SURFACES AND ROADWAYS...SUCH AS
BRIDGES AND OVERPASSES. THIS LIGHT GLAZE OF ICE WILL MAKE FOR
VERY DANGEROUS DRIVING CONDITIONS.

* OTHER IMPACTS...DRIZZLE AND FREEZING DRIZZLE MAY REDUCE
VISIBILITIES BELOW ONE MILE AT TIMES THROUGH LATE FRIDAY
MORNING.

PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...

A WINTER WEATHER ADVISORY MEANS THAT PERIODS OF WINTER
PRECIPITATION MAY CAUSE TRAVEL DIFFICULTIES. BE PREPARED FOR
ICY SPOTS ON ELEVATED ROADWAYS AND PLAN ON SOME TRAVEL DELAYS.
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Re: Texas Winter 2012-2013

#1824 Postby SouthernMet » Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:17 pm

URGENT - WINTER WEATHER MESSAGE
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE FORT WORTH TX
904 PM CST THU DEC 27 2012

TXZ091>093-100>102-115-116-129-281115-
/O.NEW.KFWD.WW.Y.0003.121228T1000Z-121228T1800Z/
MONTAGUE-COOKE-GRAYSON-YOUNG-JACK-WISE-STEPHENS-PALO PINTO-
EASTLAND-
INCLUDING THE CITIES OF...BOWIE...NOCONA...GAINESVILLE...
SHERMAN...DENISON...GRAHAM...OLNEY...JACKSBORO...DECATUR...
BRIDGEPORT...BRECKENRIDGE...MINERAL WELLS...CISCO...EASTLAND...
RANGER...GORMAN
904 PM CST THU DEC 27 2012

...WINTER WEATHER ADVISORY IN EFFECT FROM 4 AM TO NOON CST
FRIDAY...

THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN FORT WORTH HAS ISSUED A WINTER
WEATHER ADVISORY FOR FREEZING DRIZZLE...WHICH IS IN EFFECT FROM 4
AM TO NOON CST FRIDAY.

* TIMING...DRIZZLE IS EXPECTED TO BEGIN OVER THE ADVISORY AREA
WITH ABOVE FREEZING TEMPERATURES AFTER MIDNIGHT. AFTER 4 AM A
COLD FRONT IS EXPECTED TO MOVE INTO THE ADVISORY AREA...BRINGING
SURFACE TEMPERATURES BELOW FREEZING. DRIZZLE IS EXPECTED TO
CONTINUE WHILE TEMPERATURES SLOWLY DROP THROUGH EARLY FRIDAY
MORNING RESULTING IN FREEZING DRIZZLE. FREEZING DRIZZLE IS
EXPECTED TO DIMINISH BY LATE FRIDAY MORNING.

* MAIN IMPACT...FREEZING DRIZZLE WILL LEAVE A LIGHT GLAZE OF
ICE...PRIMARILY ON ELEVATED SURFACES AND ROADWAYS...SUCH AS
BRIDGES AND OVERPASSES. THIS LIGHT GLAZE OF ICE WILL MAKE FOR
VERY DANGEROUS DRIVING CONDITIONS.

* OTHER IMPACTS...DRIZZLE AND FREEZING DRIZZLE MAY REDUCE
VISIBILITIES BELOW ONE MILE AT TIMES THROUGH LATE FRIDAY
MORNING.

PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...

A WINTER WEATHER ADVISORY MEANS THAT PERIODS OF WINTER
PRECIPITATION MAY CAUSE TRAVEL DIFFICULTIES. BE PREPARED FOR
ICY SPOTS ON ELEVATED ROADWAYS AND PLAN ON SOME TRAVEL DELAYS.
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#1825 Postby dhweather » Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:01 pm

The US pours money into defense supercomputing, you can read the entire list here:

http://www.top500.org/list/2012/11/


DoD and DoE (for nuclear programs) are all over the top 20.


NOAA has some in there, just not NCEP.
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Re: Texas Winter 2012-2013

#1826 Postby GaryHughes » Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:06 pm

Well looks like I will be heading into work during my vacation to help make the roads as safe as possible!
:Chit:
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Re: Re:

#1827 Postby weatherdude1108 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:52 pm

somethingfunny wrote:
weatherdude1108 wrote:So I got a LaCrosse wireless weather station from Santa. Has an indoor/outdoor temp/hygrometer, rain sensor, and anemometer. The directions say to put everything on same side of house. But they also say it is good to put temp/hygrometer on north side of house, but anemometer must face due south (solar powered). My roof faces north and south, so they would be on opposite sides of house if I put temp/humidity sensor on north side and wind on south side. I'm guessing I have to put everything on south side. But I do have a couple eaves on the south side that are facing north. Would that be more accurate? The sensors are covered in white colored covers that are vented like the pro mets have. Anyway, I know there is a forum for weather stations, but haven't found current one. :wink: anyway, looking forward to using it and reporting! :D


I've got the same conundrum. I need to put my Acu-Rite five-in-one station in the shade so I'll get accurate temperature readings... but if it's in the shade, how will my rain gauge get rained on??? I haven't set it up yet, and I'm thinking about buying a separate rain gauge or a separate thermometer to compensate. :oops:

As for the next storm... we're still a long way out from it. The GFS is doing the usual thing it does by showing the storm at long-range, then dropping it in mid-range (where we are now) while the ECMWF continues to depict the storm. If this unfolds the way it usually does, the GFS will suddenly pick the storm up again two or three days out. Of course no model really knows what's going on until the upper level system comes ashore the west coast and we can send weather balloons up to sample its' attributes. The pattern sure looks good.

My snow is just about all gone here in south Garland, I'm thinking about driving up to Oklahoma or Arkansas this weekend to do some sledding and hiking in the snow-covered forests. 8-)


Yeah, I have a 4-inch diameter rain sensor (it came with) I put out in the open. I have the old fashioned gauge as a backup to compare. I put the temp/hygro and wind sensor on the corner of the house, aligning it with "true north" according to GPS. Gets most of direction of winds except eastern maybe. I tried roof, but it was out if range and just became logistically unfeasable.
Weather Underground shows a station close to my area. The temps, humidity, wind/wind chill/ and pressure were all within a couple degrees and percentages and speeds. I was relieved by that! Looking forward to see how it works with next big chill! :)
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#1828 Postby gpsnowman » Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:59 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... T7t350moQ0
I found some old footage of WFAA Channel 8 from January of 1985. Check out a younger Troy Dungan forecast a snowstorm for early Feb 85. His forecast starts around 4min50sec. Notice how casual and nonchalant he is with this particular winter storm. If a winter storm like this happened today the hype and coverage would be astronomical. How times have changed. I was 11 years old when this storm came through but I remember it very well. It was our first winter back in Dallas after living in San Antonio for 3 years. Ahh the childhood memories that feed my adult winter addiction!!!!
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#1829 Postby knoxtnhorn » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:31 am

^^ Wow. Great find. I was 12 that year, living in Richardson.

If I'm not mistaken, that was the storm that - literally - destroyed my neighborhood.

I remember some friends and I playing basketball outside in our shorts during the afternoon. From the North, you could see a solid line of clouds move in. That night it started icing and snowing. Can't remember if it was the next day or 2 days later but the water main under the street in front of our house shattered. It sent water through the cracks of the street about 10-15 feet into the air. This went on for awhile. You can imagine what this looked like as soon as it froze. I remember my parents taking hot coffee outside to the workers trying to repair the pipe. It took them 24 hours.

I thought it was awesome. Seems like the snow/ice stayed on the ground for over a week.
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Re: Texas Winter 2012-2013

#1830 Postby iorange55 » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:38 am

DFW NWS


MODELS CONTINUE TO FORECAST A WEST COAST TROF FOR
SUNDAY...ALTHOUGH NOT A CUTOFF LOW LIKE YESTERDAY/S RUN. ECMWF
LOOKS MORE LIKE YESTERDAY/S AND TODAY/S GFS WITH AN OPEN WAVE
MOVING ACROSS TEXAS ON MONDAY. GFS ENSEMBLES SUPPORT THIS
SOLUTION TOO...WITH ONLY ONE MEMBER CUTTING OFF THE LOW NOW
COMPARED WITH FIVE YESTERDAY. WITH MORE CONFIDENCE IN A
PROGRESSIVE UPPER TROF...HAVE CONTINUED THE SUNDAY EVENING AND
MONDAY POPS BUT DROPPED THE WIDESPREAD POPS FOR TUESDAY. LOW POPS
REMAIN IN THE EAST TUESDAY MORNING FOR THE EXITING SYSTEM.
ALTHOUGH THE GFS REMAINS DRY ON WEDNESDAY...THE ECMWF FORECASTS A
WAVE PULLING MOISTURE NORTH OF THE FRONT AND I HAVE INDICATED LOW
POPS FOR THE SOUTH AND SOUTHEAST. TEMPERATURE PROFILES CONTINUE
TO SUPPORT A RAIN EVENT WITH FREEZING TEMPERATURES OCCURRING
AFTER PRECIP ENDS. IF THE UPPER SYSTEM DOES BECOME CUTOFF AND/OR
SLOWER...FREEZING PRECIPITATION WOULD COME BACK INTO PLAY. 84

&&
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Re: Texas Winter 2012-2013

#1831 Postby Portastorm » Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:21 am

Suffice to say that the operational runs from King Euro and the GFS appear to be in some discordance with the ensembles. We saw this with the last system and as Wxman57 has told us many times before ... don't buy into the model solutions until a few days before an event, even if at then.

The pattern itself still suggests the potential for more cold air dumps and a noisy, active subtropical jet.
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Re: Texas Winter 2012-2013

#1832 Postby vbhoutex » Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:01 am

Portastorm wrote:Suffice to say that the operational runs from King Euro and the GFS appear to be in some discordance with the ensembles. We saw this with the last system and as Wxman57 has told us many times before ... don't buy into the model solutions until a few days before an event, even if at then.

The pattern itself still suggests the potential for more cold air dumps and a noisy, active subtropical jet.


That is a combination I like this time of year. Timing is everything.
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#1833 Postby Ntxw » Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:30 am

Four straight days of well below average, chill, and hardly much sun. Definitely not transient with days five, six, seven and more to come! I'm loving it
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Re:

#1834 Postby horselattitudesfarm » Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:27 am

Comanche wrote:Not sure if you guys have seen this or not. I feel this is as good an explanation of the GFS vs. Euro as you will get...

http://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2012/12/r ... rvice.html

"...The National Weather Service efforts in global and national prediction are being undermined by lack of computer power. This is not just my opinion--ask leaders inside the weather service, National Academy committees, or knowledgeable folks in the field and they will tell you the same thing. Why are ECMWF's forecasts so much better than the NWS's? A big part of it is that ECMWF has the computer power to run their high-resolution global forecast at 16 km resolution, while ours is 25 km, their ensemble forecasting system has twice the resolution, and they can use an advanced data assimilation approach (4DVAR) that requires a lot of computer resources.

Consider the difference in the computer resources available to ECMWF versus the National Weather Service's Environmental Modeling Center (EMC), and keep in mind that EMC has a much wider range of responsibility (includes high resolution national and regional forecasting) than ECMWF (which does only global forecasting).

ECMWF has two machines, each with 24546 cores and a computational ability of .75 petaflops (thousand trillion floating point operations per second). These machines are #37 and 38 on the worldwide list of top 500 computers. The National Weather Service has two computers that are not even on the top 500 list. Each has 4992 processors and an ability to do .07 petaflops. You see the problem? The NWS has less than 10% of the computer power as ECMWF and has many more responsibilities..."

Just one more area Europe is kicking our butt-owski. And you would think all that vacationing and present-hedonism would make Europe fall behind :wink:
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Re: Texas Winter 2012-2013

#1835 Postby Tejas89 » Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:30 am

This pattern reminds of '09-'10 and '10-'11. Chilly and dreary. As long as we get the precip in any form no one should complain!
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#1836 Postby SaskatchewanScreamer » Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:36 am

Ask Montreal to send some your way (I KNOW they'd be happy to share)! :lol:
Image
http://tvanouvelles.ca/lcn/montopo/photo/archives/2012/12/20121227-214036.html

Image
http://tvanouvelles.ca/lcn/montopo/photo/archives/2012/12/20121227-214036.html

:uarrow: The snow storm they just had beat the previous historical record pictured above.
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Re: Texas Winter 2012-2013

#1837 Postby ThunderSleetDreams » Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:42 am

I'd gladly take that snow here in Houston. It would shut the city down for a solid week.
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Re: Texas Winter 2012-2013

#1838 Postby SaskatchewanScreamer » Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:46 am

ThunderSleetDreams wrote:I'd gladly take that snow here in Houston. It would shut the city down for a solid week.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You'd be shut down for the next three months! :wink:
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#1839 Postby SaskatchewanScreamer » Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:48 am

darn I see your still out and about :roll: (I thought I had you hanging upside down in one of our frozen sloughs)
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Re:

#1840 Postby horselattitudesfarm » Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:49 am

gpsnowman wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RT7t350moQ0
I found some old footage of WFAA Channel 8 from January of 1985. Check out a younger Troy Dungan forecast a snowstorm for early Feb 85. His forecast starts around 4min50sec. Notice how casual and nonchalant he is with this particular winter storm. If a winter storm like this happened today the hype and coverage would be astronomical. How times have changed. I was 11 years old when this storm came through but I remember it very well. It was our first winter back in Dallas after living in San Antonio for 3 years. Ahh the childhood memories that feed my adult winter addiction!!!!

Its fun to listen to the wind-chill numbers using the old wind-chill calculations. Those wouldn't sound so extreme now. However, cold weather back then really packed a punch. Temperatures below -20F are needed to kill pine beetles and there was no problem getting that kind of cold in the mountains back then as that forecast shows. Nowadays, its big fanfare to get anything below zero up there these days. I think all the hype and coverage now is because this kind of cold is getting so unusual. People forget how cold 'normal' used to be. Just ask old-timers who have lived in the mountains of Colorado and Wyoming like I have about how the winters used to be.
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