The Yeah its Really October Nor'easter Discussion

[angelwing]

Its 8Pm here in Lansdale..we got about 7 inches outside, hubby had gone out once to knock the snow off the trees here, our dogwood out front is almost bent in half again. We got lots of branches down, I am just hoping the power stays on, it has been flickering

[CrazyC83]

Stay safe everyone!

[CrazyC83]

Could this set a record for most without power from a snowstorm? These numbers are more typical of hurricanes...

[tomboudreau]

Just talk to my parents in Northeast Connecticut. They have not had power since 5 this afternoon when one of the big transmission lines was broken to their south. They have about 4 inches already and are expecting another 8 to 10 inches tonight. They said that all of their trees have full leaf coverage still so they are expecting to lose some trees or limbs tonight. It hasn't gotten real windy yet there, but will probably pick up in earnest later this evening. When I speak to them again, later this weekend, I will post an update on how they are doing.

[CrazyC83]

This year we have had 12 billion dollar disasters. Could this be the 13th?

[arizona_sooner]

The real question for me is: Why is the northeastern United States' infrastructure so vulnerable to weather events which aren't necessarily that extreme?

[Hurricaneman]

The totals from this storm are more prototypical of a January noreaster not a late october system, some places have seen more than 2' of snow in western MA and are expecting more than 6" additional on top of that which is unheard of in october and would be epic if it was happening in winter

[tomboudreau]

Plus to also compound matters is that most trees still have leaves on them whereas in the winter, those trees are bare. The heavy nature of this snow is adding tons of weight on the trees and snapping them like twigs. I would herald a bet that a bunch of those trees are already in a weakened state because of Irene.

[psyclone]

The real question for me is: Why is the northeastern United States' infrastructure so vulnerable to weather events which aren't necessarily that extreme?

By any measure this IS extreme. Massive amounts of heavy snow and wind over a large, heavily wooded area with trees still in leaf will knock out power as efficiently as any hurricane or large ice storm. I just saw a news article stating it's the largest power outage in CT history. exactly what was feared has become reality.

[brunota2003]

This is from the Albany, NY NWS office:

.NEAR TERM /UNTIL 6 AM SUNDAY MORNING/...
AS OF 9 PM...RECEIVED REPORTS OF SNOWFALL TOTALS OF 14 TO 23 INCHES
ACROSS BERKSHIRE COUNTY WITH SNOWFALL RATES OF 2 TO 3 INCHES AN
HOUR OCCURRING ESPECIALLY ACROSS THE HIGHER TERRAIN. THE INTENSE
MESOSCALE SNOWBAND IS PIVOTING OVER THE TACONICS...MID HUDSON
VALLEY...BERKSHIRES...AND LITCHFIELD HILLS. UPDATED OUR WINTER
WEATHER MESSAGE AND INCREASED SOME STORM TOTALS. THE SURFACE LOW
IS LOCATED ABOUT 100 MILES SOUTH OF CAPE COD AND CONTINUES TO
DEEPEN WITH STRONG PRESSURE FALLS CONTINUING TO OCCUR TO THE
NORTHEAST.

THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO HAS BEEN SENDING IN SNOWFALL REPORTS IN
TO THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE. THEY ARE EXTREMELY VALUABLE TO
THE FORECAST PROCESS.

[StormingB81]

WOW! Connecticut Light and power say it could be over a week before allpower is restored...on the news facebook page people are crying foul....and saying why didnt they prepare...my reponse....early snow plus leaves on trees equal trees fall on wires..millions without power..it will take time no way to prepare!

[Stephanie]

The real question for me is: Why is the northeastern United States' infrastructure so vulnerable to weather events which aren't necessarily that extreme?

You're also talking about old neighborhoods with wiring above ground. It wasn't until the last two decades when new developments started to run the electrical wiring below ground.

[Stephanie]

This year we have had 12 billion dollar disasters. Could this be the 13th?

Unlucky 13...just in time for Halloween.

bzukajo - I just read your story about your snow blower.

[Stephanie]

I was REALLY fortunate this time around. My thoughts and prayers for all that are experiencing power outages and had other damage.

[CrazyC83]

This year we have had 12 billion dollar disasters. Could this be the 13th?

Unlucky 13...just in time for Halloween.

bzukajo - I just read your story about your snow blower.

Still 2 more months to go...and endless possibilities. A rare November hurricane? A major late fall tornado outbreak? More blizzards? An extreme Nor'easter with wind, rain and flooding? Santa Ana winds picking up late? It may still not be over yet in 2011.

[CrazyC83]

The real question for me is: Why is the northeastern United States' infrastructure so vulnerable to weather events which aren't necessarily that extreme?

By any measure this IS extreme. Massive amounts of heavy snow and wind over a large, heavily wooded area with trees still in leaf will knock out power as efficiently as any hurricane or large ice storm. I just saw a news article stating it's the largest power outage in CT history. exactly what was feared has become reality.

Snow that heavy weighs about 12 to 15 pounds per square foot. A tree with its leaves spread out over an area roughly 10x10 if flattened out would be collecting over 1,200 pounds of snow if it all sticks on it to a height of a foot. That will do very serious damage. In some areas, they had over 2 feet of snow - that is 2,400 pounds of weight. During the winter when leaves are not on the trees, it does not even come close to comparing since they barely spread out and can only bring down the branches if it all sticks on a narrow area (which can and does happen, but not as often).

[SaskatchewanScreamer]

The real question for me is: Why is the northeastern United States' infrastructure so vulnerable to weather events which aren't necessarily that extreme?

By any measure this IS extreme. Massive amounts of heavy snow and wind over a large, heavily wooded area with trees still in leaf will knock out power as efficiently as any hurricane or large ice storm. I just saw a news article stating it's the largest power outage in CT history. exactly what was feared has become reality.

Snow that heavy weighs about 12 to 15 pounds per square foot. A tree with its leaves spread out over an area roughly 10x10 if flattened out would be collecting over 1,200 pounds of snow if it all sticks on it to a height of a foot. That will do very serious damage. In some areas, they had over 2 feet of snow - that is 2,400 pounds of weight. During the winter when leaves are not on the trees, it does not even come close to comparing since they barely spread out and can only bring down the branches if it all sticks on a narrow area (which can and does happen, but not as often).

And now there is that weight on roofs as well............

Is it wet snow ie big snowflakes?

[CrazyC83]

Snow that heavy weighs about 12 to 15 pounds per square foot. A tree with its leaves spread out over an area roughly 10x10 if flattened out would be collecting over 1,200 pounds of snow if it all sticks on it to a height of a foot. That will do very serious damage. In some areas, they had over 2 feet of snow - that is 2,400 pounds of weight. During the winter when leaves are not on the trees, it does not even come close to comparing since they barely spread out and can only bring down the branches if it all sticks on a narrow area (which can and does happen, but not as often).

And now there is that weight on roofs as well............

Is it wet snow ie big snowflakes?

VERY wet snow.

[brunota2003]

A normal snowfall is 10 inches of snow = 1 inch of rain, a ratio of 10:1...this one is closer to 5:1

[vbhoutex]

The real question for me is: Why is the northeastern United States' infrastructure so vulnerable to weather events which aren't necessarily that extreme?

You're also talking about old neighborhoods with wiring above ground. It wasn't until the last two decades when new developments started to run the electrical wiring below ground.

Part of the problem is still going to be the transmission lines that mostly still run above ground.
Another problem we have here in the South is the extreme cover many areas have. Our power company comes through periodically and trims the trees back from the lines. I just wish they would put it all underground.
Back to the storm though. AMAZING!! SIMPLY AMAZING!! And unfortunately very destructive in many areas. I pray everyone gets power back quickly. We know what that is like, just not with snow and cold weather.