Texas Winter 2021-2022

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Re: Texas Winter 2021-2022

#2741 Postby TeamPlayersBlue » Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:26 pm

wxman57 wrote:
TeamPlayersBlue wrote:The wet bulb temp is below 32F for SE Tx for friday morning. Unfortunately, the models are showing the precip staying further south or off the coast. Key will be where the divergence and the most lift from overrunning occurs.
So in my opinion, whatever falls out of the sky in SE Tx will be wintery, not just a flat rain.

I'm still a bit of a novice on where gulf lows form under certain situations and also have trouble finding data in the models for divergence. These two things are key with the ULL rolling through big bend area. The setup is pretty nice for SE Tx, as long as the cold air is in place. Very similar to 2004 snowstorm, but it was much colder in 2004.


I've been observing/studying West Gulf Lows (WGL) since the late 1970s. A prerequisite for a WGL is a stalled cold front offshore. Typically, cold air accelerates southward down the TX coast all the way to the Bay of Campeche, trapped by the higher terrain along the coast of Mexico. The same push does not exist off the Louisiana coast. This leads to an east-west oriented front across the northern Gulf and a north-south oriented front from the lower TX coast southward. The bend in this front is the focus for a WGL. As I was taught at A&M, once the 500mb vorticity max reaches west Texas, the WGL forms along the natural bend in the front. As the upper trof progresses east, the WGL strengthens and moves east off the northern Gulf Coast. Steady, moderate precipitation can be expected northwest and north of the low due to isentropic lifting (overrunning). Once the low axis passes, the precip ends. I would add that the models are forecasting this WGL to track a little farther south, which is why precip will be limited across the upper Texas coast. You want the WGL to be close enough to the coast to provide the moisture, but not too close to the coast to cause a significant warm layer aloft. It's a very delicate balance between cold rain and snow, depending on the track of the WGL.

A WGL typically precedes most winter weather events along the Gulf Coast. The strongest WGL I've ever seen occurred on March 12-13 of 1993. This was the "Storm of the Century" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Storm_of_the_Century). It produced heavy snow along the Gulf Coast all the way to the Florida Panhandle and wind gusts over 100 kts offshore and in a squall line out ahead of it that hit the Florida Peninsula. See the link for more details. As is often the case across south TX and the Gulf Coast in general, we occasionally have cold enough air for snow aloft, but there is no moisture available. If a strong cold front moves offshore but then stalls, a developing WGL can provide the moisture necessary for snow.

We've seen a number of WGLs so far this winter, more than normal. That's why I've said if the air ever gets cold enough this winter then we would have a good chance of a Gulf Coast snow event. So far, the cold air has been too shallow this far south. I can't say whether that will be the case in February, which is a month of most frequent heavy snow events in SE TX. So far, the pattern hasn't been right to push deep enough cold air this far south. It's getting close this week, though.


Awesome explanation, thank you! Makes more sense to me now.
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Re: Texas Winter 2021-2022

#2742 Postby Brent » Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:48 pm

Just had a brief sleet shower here

Unfortunately moisture will be drying up as usual as it gets cold enough to snow :spam:
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Re: Texas Winter 2021-2022

#2743 Postby Cpv17 » Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:52 pm

All this talk always about 1899, 1983, and 89 being cold winters but I was watching the news last night and they mentioned that Houston got down to 5°F in 1930 which is the all time record low. Never knew anything about 1930 being cold.
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Re: Texas Winter 2021-2022

#2744 Postby Iceresistance » Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:07 pm

Severe Thunderstorm Watch up for Houston
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Re: Texas Winter 2021-2022

#2745 Postby Iceresistance » Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:20 pm

NWS Brownsville issues Winter Storm Warning.
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Re: Texas Winter 2021-2022

#2746 Postby Brent » Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:54 pm

Cpv17 wrote:All this talk always about 1899, 1983, and 89 being cold winters but I was watching the news last night and they mentioned that Houston got down to 5°F in 1930 which is the all time record low. Never knew anything about 1930 being cold.


You know thats interesting because that's also our all time record cold up here too -16 blows away anything from the 80s and 1899. 1989 only got down to -8 and 1899 doesn't even have a record still standing. 1983s only real standout is the high of 5

The only thing that comes close is -13 in February ironically
Last edited by Brent on Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Texas Winter 2021-2022

#2747 Postby jaguars_22 » Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:56 pm

I find it very odd that here in Victoria we are in a winter storm warning when all the models show the rain and any kind of precip further south? Am I missing something or is this just a heads up?
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Re: Texas Winter 2021-2022

#2748 Postby txtwister78 » Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:19 pm

jaguars_22 wrote:I find it very odd that here in Victoria we are in a winter storm warning when all the models show the rain and any kind of precip further south? Am I missing something or is this just a heads up?


Various models show different things regarding precip type coverage/temps. Some do show winter precip (mainly sleet) impacting Victoria tomorrow night but best advice I would give is look at the afternoon forecast discussion from the CRP NWS office and my guess is they will have a pretty thorough analysis behind the thought process of the winter storm warning issuance.
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Re: Texas Winter 2021-2022

#2749 Postby jaguars_22 » Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:23 pm

I did read the winter storm warning but not very much information… I’d expect us to be changed to a advisory like the rest of central Texas. I won’t let my guard down because I remember very well the Christmas forecast back in 2004. “Only a slight chance of sleet and flurries for Victoria… turned into 12-14 inches of white out conditions. Which wasn’t forecasted at all
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Re: Texas Winter 2021-2022

#2750 Postby Yukon Cornelius » Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:25 pm

We’ve dropped into the 30s already. Also, had a little on and off light rain earlier.
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Re: Texas Winter 2021-2022

#2751 Postby gboudx » Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:31 pm

Here's an update for you STX folks from jeff.

***Severe Thunderstorm Watch in effect until 700pm for the central and eastern portions of SE TX***

Showers and thunderstorms have developed ahead of the approaching cold front this afternoon and a few of these storms could become strong to severe this afternoon and evening. Main threat is strong winds and hail. Highest severe threat will be along and east of I-45.

***Low Potential for mixed winter precipitation across SE TX Thursday night***

Strong cold front will cross the area tonight and be offshore by midnight. Strong cold air advection will quickly drive temperatures in the 30’s and 40’s by sunrise Thursday morning. Strong northerly winds of 25-30mph and gusts up to 40mph will be possible on Thursday as the cold air mass overspreads and entrenches into the region.

Thursday afternoon/night:
Moisture will linger behind the surface cold front and a short wave will approach from the WSW spreading lift over the area. Short range model guidance has been generally backing away from precipitation amounts over SE TX and are currently favoring more of the coastal bend into SC TX and S TX for the proper overlap of precipitation and cold air to produce and concerning impacts.

Across SE TX moisture looks to be generally lacking and pushing toward the coast and offshore prior to the arrival of any freezing or sub-freezing temperatures which has lowered the chances of any mixed phase precipitation across the area. In other words surface temperatures are likely to be above freezing while the precipitation is falling. Surface temperatures on Friday morning will likely fall to at or below freezing for much of the area, but this happens several hours after the precipitation has ended and elevated surfaces will likely be able to dry before freezing temperatures arrive.

Impacts:
While a few isolated icy patches will be possible on any elevated surfaces, the impacts look to be very minimal.

Continue to monitor forecasts for any changes
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Re: Texas Winter 2021-2022

#2752 Postby jasons2k » Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:32 pm

TeamPlayersBlue wrote:
wxman57 wrote:
TeamPlayersBlue wrote:The wet bulb temp is below 32F for SE Tx for friday morning. Unfortunately, the models are showing the precip staying further south or off the coast. Key will be where the divergence and the most lift from overrunning occurs.
So in my opinion, whatever falls out of the sky in SE Tx will be wintery, not just a flat rain.

I'm still a bit of a novice on where gulf lows form under certain situations and also have trouble finding data in the models for divergence. These two things are key with the ULL rolling through big bend area. The setup is pretty nice for SE Tx, as long as the cold air is in place. Very similar to 2004 snowstorm, but it was much colder in 2004.


I've been observing/studying West Gulf Lows (WGL) since the late 1970s. A prerequisite for a WGL is a stalled cold front offshore. Typically, cold air accelerates southward down the TX coast all the way to the Bay of Campeche, trapped by the higher terrain along the coast of Mexico. The same push does not exist off the Louisiana coast. This leads to an east-west oriented front across the northern Gulf and a north-south oriented front from the lower TX coast southward. The bend in this front is the focus for a WGL. As I was taught at A&M, once the 500mb vorticity max reaches west Texas, the WGL forms along the natural bend in the front. As the upper trof progresses east, the WGL strengthens and moves east off the northern Gulf Coast. Steady, moderate precipitation can be expected northwest and north of the low due to isentropic lifting (overrunning). Once the low axis passes, the precip ends. I would add that the models are forecasting this WGL to track a little farther south, which is why precip will be limited across the upper Texas coast. You want the WGL to be close enough to the coast to provide the moisture, but not too close to the coast to cause a significant warm layer aloft. It's a very delicate balance between cold rain and snow, depending on the track of the WGL.

A WGL typically precedes most winter weather events along the Gulf Coast. The strongest WGL I've ever seen occurred on March 12-13 of 1993. This was the "Storm of the Century" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Storm_of_the_Century). It produced heavy snow along the Gulf Coast all the way to the Florida Panhandle and wind gusts over 100 kts offshore and in a squall line out ahead of it that hit the Florida Peninsula. See the link for more details. As is often the case across south TX and the Gulf Coast in general, we occasionally have cold enough air for snow aloft, but there is no moisture available. If a strong cold front moves offshore but then stalls, a developing WGL can provide the moisture necessary for snow.

We've seen a number of WGLs so far this winter, more than normal. That's why I've said if the air ever gets cold enough this winter then we would have a good chance of a Gulf Coast snow event. So far, the cold air has been too shallow this far south. I can't say whether that will be the case in February, which is a month of most frequent heavy snow events in SE TX. So far, the pattern hasn't been right to push deep enough cold air this far south. It's getting close this week, though.


Awesome explanation, thank you! Makes more sense to me now.


I was in Birmingham, Alabama for that storm. We had over 16" of snow at the house. We lost a few trees, we lost power for a week, and we lost phone and cable for over two weeks. We slept in sleeping bags in front of the fireplace. Thank goodness we had an old-fashioned gas stove. I remember taking soup over to the neighbor's house.

One of the most incredible things about that storm was the thundersnow at night. Imagine a torrent of snow falling with flashes of lightning instantly turning everything - and I mean everything including the whole sky - into bright daylight (from the reflection). And the sound....the thunder sounded nothing like thunder in a rainstorm. It was this long, lingering, prolonged rumbled - hard to describe - like and old piece of sheet metal flopping in the wind.

After the endless torrent of snow, it was crazy on day one. No power. Semis and cars were stranded all over the freeways, like Virginia a couple of weeks ago. The comedian Carrot Top had a show in town and all of his props burned in a fire related to the storm (this was back, a long time ago -- when Carrot Top was actually funny). A couple of weeks later, I drove back to Texas for spring break and to visit the campus out in Lubbock. All the way down I-59/I-20 into central Mississippi, the pine trees were snapped or bent and mowed-down looking from all the snow and ice that had accumulated. Those longleaf pines were not meant to handle the snow, so they just snapped, like they would in an ice storm.

From a meteorological standpoint, it's one of the most unique events I've ever experienced. Before that, the most snow I had ever seen was about 6" in Dallas/Plano in 1989? Never thought I'd top it but I happened to be in NYC for 2 feet of snow back in 2006. That was crazy too, and I have some stories from that storm for another time.

One other thing I remember about the "Superstorm of 1993." It was well-modeled ahead of time and the incredible forecast that was on the models came to fruition. I didn't have internet back then, so all I had was The Weather Channel, my weather radio, and the local news in Birmingham. The Mets in Birmingham, Jerry Tracy and James Spann, were all over it. I remember when everything came back up a couple of weeks later, WBRC did a TV special about the storm, and one of the segments was about how amazing the new computer models performed on it. It seemed like a new era in weather forecasting had dawned.

Looking back in context, 1992's Andrew and 1993's "Superstorm" were big milestones in terms of how technology was used to forecast the weather, and how the media used these new tools to provide wall-to-wall coverage -- all this while nature itself had entered this new era of more extreme weather.
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Re: Texas Winter 2021-2022

#2753 Postby txtwister78 » Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:34 pm

jaguars_22 wrote:I did read the winter storm warning but not very much information… I’d expect us to be changed to a advisory like the rest of central Texas. I won’t let my guard down because I remember very well the Christmas forecast back in 2004. “Only a slight chance of sleet and flurries for Victoria… turned into 12-14 inches of white out conditions. Which wasn’t forecasted at all


Well, I can answer that one for you pretty confidently regarding a snow event like that...not happening tomorrow (a completely different pattern with much colder air at that time in place) with a powerful ULL, but the forecast discussions provided by local offices go into greater detail than the warning text and usually highlight what the forecaster(s) are examining and sometimes still unsure about.

What made that forecast a challenge (2004) was the upper low track. It kept changing and changing further south than what models had shown 24-36 hours out. The cold air was definitely in place at all levels. Not the same situation tomorrow.
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Re: Texas Winter 2021-2022

#2754 Postby Cpv17 » Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:10 pm

I see towards the end of the month and into February it looks like our source region could be loading up again but it also appears like a -PNA could be setting in too. I’m not sure how I feel about it.
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Re: Texas Winter 2021-2022

#2755 Postby Iceresistance » Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:16 pm

Cpv17 wrote:I see towards the end of the month and into February it looks like our source region could be loading up again but it also appears like a -PNA could be setting in too. I’m not sure how I feel about it.


18z GFS took note of that.
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Winter 2020-2021 :cold:

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Winter posts are focused mainly for Oklahoma & Texas.

Take any of my forecasts with a grain of salt, refer to the NWS, SPC, and NHC for official information

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Re: Texas Winter 2021-2022

#2756 Postby gpsnowman » Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:28 pm

I noticed the normal high went up one degree today. It is a reminder that we are slowly losing time to hit the snowy jackpot once before spring hits. Still a ways to go though with our snowy month coming up next.
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Re: Texas Winter 2021-2022

#2757 Postby Cpv17 » Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:12 pm

Iceresistance wrote:
Cpv17 wrote:I see towards the end of the month and into February it looks like our source region could be loading up again but it also appears like a -PNA could be setting in too. I’m not sure how I feel about it.


18z GFS took note of that.


I think we really need to start paying attention to the last few days of this month into the beginning of February.
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Re: Texas Winter 2021-2022

#2758 Postby Ntxw » Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:18 pm

Cpv17 wrote:All this talk always about 1899, 1983, and 89 being cold winters but I was watching the news last night and they mentioned that Houston got down to 5°F in 1930 which is the all time record low. Never knew anything about 1930 being cold.


1930 didn't make a lot of history books because it was focused in the middle of the country. East and West coast were relatively mild. It was a classic Pacific->Alaskan->Chuckchi ridge with a big PV in the Hudson Bay/Davis straits. A little bit of a southeast/Atlantic ridge. It also holds some impressive records similar to last Feb in DFW as well.

Image
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Re: Texas Winter 2021-2022

#2759 Postby Iceresistance » Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:32 pm

2 Inch Hail reported near Marshall, TX
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Re: Texas Winter 2021-2022

#2760 Postby Cpv17 » Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:41 pm

Long ways out but one thing that could definitely kill our chances as he head towards February is the PNA turning too negative again. Long range GEFS has a southeast ridge developing back building into Texas but our source region appears to be loaded.
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